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Which one would you kill?

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morningstar2651

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What makes your life more valuable than any other human life? Besides just your bias based on the fact that you are yourself, I mean.
What makes human life more valuable than any other life? Besides just your bias based on the fact that you are human, I mean.
 
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Sad for them, right? Though I still don't see why valuing animal lives as much as one values one's own life or the lives of other humans is necessarily a sad thing. But I do understand that you feel sad for such people.

So why is it "tasteless" to choose to kill the hypothetical retarded human over the hypothetical genius chimp?

Because the genius chimp may then spread his genes and be the progenitor of a whole new species of super chimps that eventually supplant humans as the dominant beings on this world.

So it's in my Darwinian self-interest to off the chimp.

Similarly, Bilo may escape and spread his damaged genes into the common pool and be responsible for a weakening of future human generations. Allowing super chimps to become dominant. so bye-bye Bilo too.

Feliz Navidad!

:)
 
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angellica

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Why do we assume that we don't value ourselves.

The question isn't "Would you kill an animal or yourself?"

My decision isn't based on any arbitrary value placed on life - mine is based on my lack of desire to kill either the animal or the human. They equally deserve to survive, so I give them equal chances.

I value myself as much as you value yourself - I probably value animals quite a bit more than you do, though. I haven't "lowered" myself - I have "raised" them.

Perhaps I just have more respect for living creatures than you.
Perhaps we both have the same amount of respect for living creatures. I simply place more respect on humans, even above the amount of respect I already have for all living creatures. And like I said before, if you give them equal chances to survive, you are saying they are equal.
 
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WatersMoon110

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No matter how much you value an animal life, a human life is always more valuable. Just because a human life is more valuable than an animal does not mean the animal is not valuable, nor does it decrease the value of the animal. It is just saying that the human life is worth more.
I disagree. I do not see human life as any more valuable than other forms life.

Though legally, of course, there is a difference. But this hypothetical doesn't carry any legal punishment - so that cannot effect my choice.

Because you are valuing an animal over a human.
Why is it tasteless to do that?
 
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Caitlin.ann

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What makes your life more valuable than any other human life? Besides just your bias based on the fact that you are yourself, I mean.

Well umm duh because I am ME and I want to live. I am not bothered by faceless strangers I don't even know for the most part and reletively speaking. I am more important to be because ..well umm because I am living my life. Its a dog eat dog world out there and if its a choice between me and molly the pomeranian or joe the stranger I'm choosing myself any day.
 
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angellica

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What makes human life more valuable than any other life? Besides just your bias based on the fact that you are human, I mean.
So you have no answer as to why your life is more important than any other human's?

I've already said why I believe humans' lives are more valuable - because of all our abilities that are superior to animals and we have souls.
 
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WatersMoon110

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Doesn't matter - the chimp and the person were "strangers" yet she valued the chimp's life over the human's life.
Yes. But your other quote was about her not being self absorbed. She said that she is self absorbed, but she doesn't value the life of a human stranger more than the life of a stranger chimp in this hypothetical. Neither value judgment placed on those strangers show her lack of value for herself.
 
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Well umm duh because I am ME and I want to live. I am not bothered by faceless strangers I don't even know for the most part and reletively speaking. I am more important to be because ..well umm because I am living my life. Its a dog eat dog world out there and if its a choice between me and molly the pomeranian or joe the stranger I'm choosing myself any day.

How about if the choice was between you and the entire population of, say, New York City?

Just wondering how far you'll go with the self-interest. :)

PS: I'm not judging you, just enjoying the thread. :)
 
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morningstar2651

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Perhaps we both have the same amount of respect for living creatures. I simply place more respect on humans, even above the amount of respect I already have for all living creatures. And like I said before, if you give them equal chances to survive, you are saying they are equal.
No. By flipping a coin I ignore my bias. I'm not justifying killing one over the other - I'm giving both a fair chance to survive.
 
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angellica

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I disagree. I do not see human life as any more valuable than other forms life.

Though legally, of course, there is a difference. But this hypothetical doesn't carry any legal punishment - so that cannot effect my choice.

Why is it tasteless to do that?
I truly think if you value human life as equal to animal life, you should not eat any animals because you wouldn't do the same to humans. You shouldn't have animals as pets, because you wouldn't have a human pet. Your dogs and cats should eat at the table just like you do. They should have their own bedroom and bed if they are truly your equal. I think if you were in a car and you were going to hit either a guy or a squirrel, you would swerve away from the guy and toward the squirrel because you value the life of the guy more than the squirrel.
 
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WatersMoon110

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I truly think if you value human life as equal to animal life, you should not eat any animals because you wouldn't do the same to humans.
Except that it is illegal to eat humans. And rightfully so, given that people would fear that others would eat their children and it would create widespread panic.

For the most part, humans seem to be instinctively against or have a very strong cultural aversion to eating other humans. I would eat another human if I was starving and they had died. I don't know if I could kill another human if we were both starving and it was them or me - I might just let them kill me painlessly.

Animals eat other animals, if I believe humans are no better than animals, why would I find it unethical to eat certain other species of animals?

I probably couldn't eat my cat, even if I was starving. Though I love my other pets, I would kill any of them to feed myself, my husband, and my cats if we were starving.

You shouldn't have animals as pets, because you wouldn't have a human pet.
I joke that my husband is my human "pet" - but no, I wouldn't consider myself to own another human like I do my pets. Humans have a different legal status than pets do.

But I am legally required to care for my pets properly, as well as ethically driven to take as good care of them as I can.

Your dogs and cats should eat at the table just like you do.
No, because it isn't good for animals to eat when humans are eating - especially dogs. Dogs need a human that acts like a leader, otherwise they will be very stressed and try to act like a leader.

My pets eat from their food dishes, and my husband and I eat from our plates (more often not at the table). But all of us deserve to have enough to eat.

They should have their own bedroom and bed if they are truly your equal.
Actually, I'm hoping to get a house with enough rooms to have a room for the rats and a tv, a room for the parakeet and my office, and a room just for the kitties, as well as a bedroom for us and a guest bedroom.

As it is, all of our pet's have their own beds (though the cats have to share with us or use the furniture), and most of them have their own cages with enough room to properly house them all. The "edible pets" have their own separate room which is also my office and has our other mattress.

I think if you were in a car and you were going to hit either a guy or a squirrel, you would swerve away from the guy and toward the squirrel because you value the life of the guy more than the squirrel.
Actually I would probably swerve away from the guy because he would be larger and I would see him first. I would try and miss both though if I saw them.
 
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Braunwyn

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It doesn't mean that I value animals less than she does. It means I value humans more than she does.
I don't know how much s/he values animal life compared to you. If neither of you are vegan than it's not much of a contrast any way.

My answer to the OP is that I would choose the human with no other information available because I am a speciesist (to a degree). But, it might change if it were another human rather than a random mentally disabled person. Also, I would sacrifice myself and any other person (outside a seriously bright individual) in trade of a large number of animals. For example, if I had a magic wand and could end factory farming with this ridiculous hypothetical, I probably would.
 
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Caitlin.ann

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How about if the choice was between you and the entire population of, say, New York City?

Just wondering how far you'll go with the self-interest. :)

PS: I'm not judging you, just enjoying the thread. :)

Meh well my family lives outside of the city so that would be okay too yeah.
 
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quatona

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It might also be that not every body values all humans equally. I know I don't and there are a lot of variables that come into play.
Indeed. That´s the problem with these hypotheticals - they try to isolate one particular aspect in order to provoke absolute statements, whereas real situations always consist of countless aspects that need to be considered and weighed against each other.

Anyways, my objection still stands: If you don´t value human life per se higher than the life of another animal, that doesn´t mean you value it lower than someone who does. E.g. someone might value the life of every animal sacred.
 
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