Which one is right?

[jenjen486]

Read Acts 18. Tell me, did St. Apollos have God zap everything directly into his mind, or did he have to learn from those more knowledgeable than himself? Why didn't Apollos just sit in a corner by himself with a couple scrolls of Scripture? Did Priscilla and Aquila do wrong by taking him under their tutelage?

-CryptoLutheran

This is about the fact that even if we listen to others, we are to take what they say to the scriptures, and not just believe it when they say it. Apollos didn't call Himself a follower of Priscilla, nor did he call himself a believer of the faith of Aquilian. Nor are we to make a certain belief system the standard or the measure, rather than Christ and what He said as being the ONLY truth. You say, "my denomination to me, is the closest one to the truth". So you use that denomination, as the measure, and what you use to convince others, rather than saying, what God says is the only truth. When you do what you are doing, there is no longer "going on toward Christ", because you stop at these set belief systems that are not complete in Christ.

 

[Leuko Petra]

This is about the fact that even if we listen to others, we are to take what they say to the scriptures, and not just believe it when they say it. Apollos didn't call Himself a follower of Priscilla, nor did he call himself a believer of the faith of Aquilian. ...

Truth. Pure, simple. Verity.

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1 Corinthians 14:32

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

and yet still more.

 

[jenjen486]

Hi JenJen, if we, as you have proposed, are to read the Scriptures and be taught by the HS alone, why did God appoint "teachers" as part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:28)? What was His point in doing so?

Likewise, why did the Lord through St. Paul exhort us to "desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that we may prophesy" (1 Corinthians 14:1)? If all of the truth, knowledge, and understanding we need comes to each one of us directly from God and His word, why the need for prophets to tell us anything?

This is what scripture says....

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

They examined everything that Paul said, with the scriptures, to see if what he said was true. Scripture tells us to not trust in man, but in God. We are like sheep, easily led astray. There is another verse that says: "watch your life and doctrine CLOSELY, persevere in them, IF you do, you will save both yourself, and hearers. We don't say, I am apart of this denomination, and this is what we teach, because that would be the measure, rather than what God says as being the only truth. There are many wolves in sheeps clothing, in order to not be deceived, or "carried away by the error of lawless men", we must take what they say to Gods word, and follow Him, rather than a certain set of beliefs. You cannot go on towards Christ, or be taught of Him fully, if you already have a belief system as the measure of perfect in you mind.

 

[St_Worm2]

This is what scripture says....

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

They examined everything that Paul said, with the scriptures, to see if what he said was true. Scripture tells us to not trust in man, but in God. We are like sheep, easily led astray. There is another verse that says: "watch your life and doctrine CLOSELY, persevere in them, IF you do, you will save both yourself, and hearers. We don't say, I am apart of this denomination, and this is what we teach, because that would be the measure, rather than what God says as being the only truth. There are many wolves in sheeps clothing, in order to not be deceived, or "carried away by the error of lawless men", we must take what they say to Gods word, and follow Him, rather than a certain set of beliefs. You cannot go on towards Christ, or be taught of Him fully, if you already have a belief system as the measure of perfect in you mind.

JenJen, nothing you said here qualifies as an answer to either one of my questions, so let me ask them again in hope of getting an answer this time. Actually, let's make it easy and just start with the first question. Here is that question:

If we (as you have proposed) are to read the Scriptures and be taught by the HS alone, why then did God appoint "teachers" as part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:28)? What was His point in doing so?
​

This is what Scripture says (in part) about teaching, teachers, and the body of Christ (the Church) ...

"You are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues." 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

"Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." 1 Corinthians 14:1

"He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things. And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ" Ephesians 4:10-12

"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19

"Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness." Romans 12:6-8​

"Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach" 1 Timothy 3:1-2
​

 

[Leuko Petra]

JenJen, nothing you said here qualifies as an answer to either one of my questions, so let me ask them again in hope of getting an answer this time. Actually, let's make it easy and just start with the first question. Here is that question:

If we (as you have proposed) are to read the Scriptures and be taught by the HS alone, why then did God appoint "teachers" as part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:28)? What was His point in doing so?...​

As far as can be seen, JenJen, is saying that she accepts the "gifts" given unto the Church, and even "teachers", but that those "teachers" are to always be "tested" by the "Word of GOD" [it being the standard, not the teacher, or any other human], not merely accepted by what they claim to be.

If what the "teacher", etc preaches/teaches is according to a plain "thus saith the Lord" and taught throughtout the scriptures, it is to be accepted, not because they said so, but because God said so.

Even a Prophet may speak of himself without direction, even in good intent and blessings, but yet need to be corrected - as Nathan the Prophet before David. As Peter was to be corrected by/through Paul. And so on...

...yet I hope to place nothing into her mouth, thus spoken, for her.
​

 

[St_Worm2]

As far as can be seen, JenJen, is saying that she accepts the "gifts" given unto the Church, and even "teachers", but that those "teachers" are to always be "tested" by the "Word of GOD" [it being the standard, not the teacher, or any other human], not merely accepted by what they claim to be.

If what the "teacher", etc preaches/teaches is according to a plain "thus saith the Lord" and taught throughtout the scriptures, it is to be accepted, not because they said so, but because God said so.

Even a Prophet may speak of himself without direction, even in good intent and blessings, but yet need to be corrected - as Nathan the Prophet before David. As Peter was to be corrected by/through Paul. And so on...
[/left]

Hi Leuko, if that's what she said or even hinted at in this thread (it wasn't), I would not have had an issue.

--David

 

[Leuko Petra]

Hi Leuko, if that's what she said or even hinted at in this thread (it wasn't), I would not have had an issue.

--David

Hi David, I think she has, but I have had my say about it already, and so allow her to say of her own, whether what I said of her is so or no.

Let us go back unto the main reason for this thread, which is "Which one is right?" For by the scriptures, "one" is "right". Now shall we begin to ask the questions which will help us to determine which is the "one" and True, which bears "the faith" of Jesus?

 

[shturt678]

You were born in a bad time, doesn't look good for you, and me even, hence join any Christian setting and make the most of it doing your best, in the Gospel sense, to shoot for the upper levels of hell like me. Sorry, someone has to tell you and guess it's me. Most think they have this ticket, OSAS, however they will have forever to think about it.

The only thing that separates modern Lutherans from me, an older non-modern Lutheran is that I realize I'm going to hell, they don't, and really doesn't help my situation due to awaking in the same place as them. I would be better off not knowing, correct?

 

[Albion]

You were born in a bad time, doesn't look good for you, and me even, hence join any Christian setting and make the most of it doing your best, in the Gospel sense, to shoot for the upper levels of hell like me. Sorry, someone has to tell you and guess it's me. Most think they have this ticket, OSAS, however they will have forever to think about it.

The only thing that separates modern Lutherans from me, an older non-modern Lutheran is that I realize I'm going to hell, they don't, and really doesn't help my situation due to awaking in the same place as them. I would be better off not knowing, correct?

You realize that you're going to hell?

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi David, I think she has, but I have had my say about it already, and so allow her to say of her own, whether what I said of her is so or no.

In like manner to one of Martin Luther's responses in Worms, may she choose to answer without "horns" .. You continue:

Let us go back unto the main reason for this thread, which is "Which one is right?" For by the scriptures, "one" is "right". Now shall we begin to ask the questions which will help us to determine which is the "one" and True, which bears "the faith" of Jesus?

You know, there are very few denominations that I know of that get it "wrong", at least for the most part. However, as far as individual (or local) churches within those denominations, that can truly be a different matter all together.

I was told by someone once that he believed God to be more multi-faceted the we give Him credit for, or than any one group would be capable of praising Him for. Denominations tend to emphasize one or two particular parts of the faith while still being grounded in the Truth in general. They become good reminders then for most of us who have become stayed or entrenched or comfortable in how we approach God that He might not fit as perfectly into the little box we've built for Him as we'd like Him to ..

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

You were born in a bad time, doesn't look good for you, and me even, hence join any Christian setting and make the most of it doing your best, in the Gospel sense, to shoot for the upper levels of hell like me. Sorry, someone has to tell you and guess it's me. Most think they have this ticket, OSAS, however they will have forever to think about it.

The only thing that separates modern Lutherans from me, an older non-modern Lutheran is that I realize I'm going to hell, they don't, and really doesn't help my situation due to awaking in the same place as them. I would be better off not knowing, correct?

Why do you believe you're going to Hell ..

 

[shturt678]

Why do you believe you're going to Hell ..

I was bringing forth what I understood a few decades ago regarding plugging myself in at Rev.13:14b, and not only me, other non-modern Lutherans that have passed on since. Then seeing that Rev.8:7-9:18 was just IIThess.2:11, 12 expounded then clinched it with on one seeing this till today. Since that time God allowed me to make a paradigm shift by dumping all my past Lutheran teachings into the dumpster, did that, now in a valid race, but still warn others .... more gentle than I did here.

 

[St_Worm2]

I was bringing forth what I understood a few decades ago regarding plugging myself in at Rev.13:14b, and not only me, other non-modern Lutherans that have passed on since. Then seeing that Rev.8:7-9:18 was just IIThess.2:11, 12 expounded then clinched it with on one seeing this till today. Since that time God allowed me to make a paradigm shift by dumping all my past Lutheran teachings into the dumpster, did that, now in a valid race, but still warn others .... more gentle than I did here.

If memory serves, the passages you mention from Revelation and 2 Thessalonians concern the reprobate. How were you able to "plug yourself", a believer (I presume), into those verses?

Also, what (w/o too much detail) are the Lutheran teachings that you flushed? And what did you replace them with that gave you new hope?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - OSAS is NOT a Lutheran teaching, old or new, is it?

 

[jenjen486]

Hi Leuko, if that's what she said or even hinted at in this thread (it wasn't), I would not have had an issue.

--David

Did I not clarify that in the last message? We hear the ones who are over us, but we do not believe it until we search the scriptures and hear from God, and know that it is true because of that.

 

[shturt678]

If memory serves, the passages you mention from Revelation and 2 Thessalonians concern the reprobate. How were you able to "plug yourself", a believer (I presume), into those verses?

Also, what (w/o too much detail) are the Lutheran teachings that you flushed? And what did you replace them with that gave you new hope?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - OSAS is NOT a Lutheran teaching, old or new, is it?

Used my G.I. Bill long ago, and sacrificed a lot, Modern Lutheran settings (no longer a valid denomination), only to find out garbage, dumped all, months of depression, back to the libraries, 7 days a week after work and weekends, found out shouldn't have dumped all, my whole library included into the dumpster as pre-1929 back to Mr. Luther (1500s), collectively on the money. Valid denomination not on the planet. Already could see the 7 endings of the Book of Revelation, but didn't understand the Trumpets and Rev.13:14b plus IIThess.2:10-12, from pre-1929 Lutheran works. When I did, wow, including my Christian walk, I've had it, I'm not only a wretched sinner, but no genuine denomination in the time I was born into plus the modern Lutherans teach implicitly anyway, OSAS within their specific denominations, not all the moderns do however - keeps the business going, and explicitly, the Bible is the inspired Word of God, where the pre-moderns teach and as I have always believed the Bible is an aid in understanding the original perfectly inspired Autographs. More depression with tearful pity parties for Jack, me. Pity parties over and must get moving forward to where I'm at today, finally even my walk. I have at least a crack at it, i.e., salvation. Hope this helps?

 

[samcarternx]

On the Day of Pentecost 120 new members of the church were added to Christ(the head of the body). A little later 3000 were added by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit adds to His church and as the members become saints, they represent the kingdom of heaven on earth, as ambassadors and minister and edify as the Spirit moves them. All of us have been offered the opportunity to walk the road to life and not join the stampede to destruction. We are supposed enter into that life. We have all things pertaining to life and godliness and His grace is sufficient. The truth has not changed, this is the church to this day, and we should depend on the Holy Spirit to lead us not only into all truth, but also for what we do with our lives.

 

[shturt678]

On the Day of Pentecost 120 new members of the church were added to Christ(the head of the body). A little later 3000 were added by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit adds to His church and as the members become saints, they represent the kingdom of heaven on earth, as ambassadors and minister and edify as the Spirit moves them. All of us have been offered the opportunity to walk the road to life and not join the stampede to destruction. We are supposed enter into that life. We have all things pertaining to life and godliness and His grace is sufficient. The truth has not changed, this is the church to this day, and we should depend on the Holy Spirit to lead us not only into all truth, but also for what we do with our lives.

I thought I unintentionally derailed the thread. Thank you for caring my friend Sam. I have no doubts that if one has a genuine heart for Jesus, from God's view, God will make sure that individual will inherit the Kingdom of God. God cheats by sending powerful angles and etc., but He can cheat all he wants as long as I don't have to go where I deserve to go forever, ie, without pain meds. No sarcasm here, ie, only humility.

 

[samcarternx]

hahahah Jack, He sure will make sure, its called the woodshed and it is remedial.

 

[shturt678]

hahahah Jack, He sure will make sure, its called the woodshed and it is remedial.

This is why I eventually became a Rom.3:18 kind of Christian, sadly long after a Jn.3:16 type, ie, God can play hardball in that 'woodshed.' I too was one of those denominational Church goers that would not dare offend God on Sunday for an hour and a half then do what I want to do during the week offending, and even provoking God at times, jumping on IJn.1:9 bandwagon where God forgives sins. Slow on the uptake with all that pain and suffering, now I get it. Feels good to work for the King, ie, finally aligning my will with his, beyond the ol' hour an a half denominational type works of faith.

 

[Epecho]

Dear friend, may I respectfully tell you that the Bible says "God is not the author of confusion".

- See more at: Why Are There So Many Churches? | WhyAreThereSoManyChurches.com