Which one is right?

[bbbbbbb]

In all seriousness, without any levity, and to the point - the answer is - The prophetically called forth remnant of God, the Seventh Day Adventist movement.

Now, if you desire to understand that answer, without any assumptions preempting, and why it is the Truth of the matter, then let us consider the scriptures together, even without distractions.

Uh huh. I think virtually everyone here at CF considers their denomination to possess more of the fulness of truth than any other. Few of us are quite as brazen as yourself to assert our beliefs.

 

[jenjen486]

I have been a Christian for a couple years now.. and I am still confused by all of the denominations.

There seem to be so many.. Which one is right? I wasn't raised in a certain one.. so I am looking at all of these from a complete outsider's perspective.

I know that I need to study Christian history and find these answers myself.. but just wondering if anybody would be able to share general information or how they were able to determine which denomination they were.

Don't try to listen to any certain denomination. They are all following man and what they say, rather than just what God says. No denomination is right, or true, but read the word of God, ask for His Spirit, and live by the Spirit, and He will begin to show you what is your own opinions, what the opinions of others are, what THE TRUTH is, and that they very much differentiate with one another.

 

[Leuko Petra]

Uh huh. I think virtually everyone here at CF considers their denomination to possess more of the fulness of truth than any other. Few of us are quite as brazen as yourself to assert our beliefs.

If you may look again, the Seventh Day Adventist movement is no run-of-the-mill 'denomination', but rather a prophetically called forth world-wide movement, calling all faithful followers of Jesus Christ into its [His] body, and out from Babylon and her many daughters.

 

[Leuko Petra]

Uh huh. ...

Speaking the Truth with boldness [Acts 4:29], but also in humility, I am willing to question and be questioned and to enter into dialogue and a searching of the scriptures with you.

The reason I may speak as I do, about those systems of religions, and why they cannot be the true, is because of what Revelation itself says. Scripture has already judged, and I follow after it.

 

[St_Worm2]

Don't try to listen to any certain denomination. They are all following man and what they say, rather than just what God says. No denomination is right, or true, but read the word of God, ask for His Spirit, and live by the Spirit, and He will begin to show you what is your own opinions, what the opinions of others are, what THE TRUTH is, and that they very much differentiate with one another.

Hi JenJen, I always find broad, sweeping statements about denominations and churches (like the one you just made above) interesting. It's as if you believe the church is made up of nothing but mindless automatons who follow, without thought or question, any and all directives given them by their "cult" leader. That I, and all the billions of church goers throughout the Millennia, cannot muster an original thought where God, the Bible, or salvation is concerned.

Do you really believe that we all just gather at the feet of our local Protestant or Catholic guru and chant "it is so" to everything he/she says w/o ever opening the Bible and/or praying for guidance if something our pastor/priest has said seems incorrect? Please let me assure you that while that may be true for some, perhaps even many who attend organized church each week, it is equally true that there are, since the dawn of the church, many who question EVERYTHING their pastor/priest has said (whether it seems wrong or right to them) to the glory of God. We want to make sure we get it right, just like you ..

You said, "Don't try to listen to any certain denomination. They are all following man and what they say, rather than just what God says".

Could you be a little more specific? Please name a denomination (you may certainly choose mine if you'd like .. The Evangelical Free Church of America), and show us, point by point, how our beliefs differ from those set forth for us by God in His word. To save time and give you a place to begin, click here to read our short Statement of Faith. Then let me know what we are failing to understand and how our beliefs are all either apostate or blasphemous so that we may correct them.

Thanks!

--David

 

[ViaCrucis]

If you may look again, the Seventh Day Adventist movement is no run-of-the-mill 'denomination', but rather a prophetically called forth world-wide movement, calling all faithful followers of Jesus Christ into its [His] body, and out from Babylon and her many daughters.

Of course it is.

Have a biscuit.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Leuko Petra]

Of course it is. ...

-CryptoLutheran

As stated there are ways to test.

 

[ViaCrucis]

As stated there are ways to test.

Yes, study Scripture, in context and with a good hermeneutic in order to rightly exegete it. It also helps to have a handle on the history of the Christian Church and what has, in the words of St. Vincent, has been believed everywhere, always, and by all.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Leuko Petra]

Yes, study Scripture...

-CryptoLutheran

Excellent, let me know if and when you would like to do that.

 

[jenjen486]

Hi JenJen, I always find broad, sweeping statements about denominations and churches (like the one you just made above) interesting. It's as if you believe the church is made up of nothing but mindless automatons who follow, without thought or question, any and all directives given them by their "cult" leader. That I, and all the billions of church goers throughout the Millennia, cannot muster an original thought where God, the Bible, or salvation is concerned.

Do you really believe that we all just gather at the feet of our local Protestant or Catholic guru and chant "it is so" to everything he/she says w/o ever opening the Bible and/or praying for guidance if something our pastor/priest has said seems incorrect? Please let me assure you that while that may be true for some, perhaps even many who attend organized church each week, it is equally true that there are, since the dawn of the church, many who question EVERYTHING their pastor/priest has said (whether it seems wrong or right to them) to the glory of God. We want to make sure we get it right, just like you ..

You said, "Don't try to listen to any certain denomination. They are all following man and what they say, rather than just what God says".

Could you be a little more specific? Please name a denomination (you may certainly choose mine if you'd like .. The Evangelical Free Church of America), and show us, point by point, how our beliefs differ from those set forth for us by God in His word. To save time and give you a place to begin, click here to read our short Statement of Faith. Then let me know what we are failing to understand and how our beliefs are all either apostate or blasphemous so that we may correct them.

Thanks!

--David

What I am getting at is the fact that its a persons beliefs in which you put your trust in, and a denomination, rather than just being a follower of Christ. In every denomination, there was always a man who started it, who had his own personal beliefs, and made it into a belief system. So rather than claiming that you are of a certain denomination, no matter how close to the truth, why don't you say that you follow Christ, and what He said in His word? Denominations always have these set beliefs that they believe personally, rather than, God says.

 

[jenjen486]

It was because of these men, who took the half of scripture the parts they wanted to hear, that all the different denominations came about. I am glad to hear that you search the scriptures, but it is scarce. And most people do not do it, they listen to their pastor, because wolves come in sheeps clothing. In example. Joel Osteen, a million followers, and leading everyone of them astray. If they would actually read the word, rather than wanting to feel a spiritual high, they would see what he really is.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What I am getting at is the fact that its a persons beliefs in which you put your trust in, and a denomination, rather than just being a follower of Christ. In every denomination, there was always a man who started it, who had his own personal beliefs, and made it into a belief system. So rather than claiming that you are of a certain denomination, no matter how close to the truth, why don't you say that you follow Christ, and what He said in His word? Denominations always have these set beliefs that they believe personally, rather than, God says.

I didn't grow up Lutheran, I didn't set out to become Lutheran. I spent years churchless and hopping around to various churches, the entire time was also spent intensely reading Scripture, exploring the history of the Christian Church, engaging in conversations, debates, and discussion with Christians from a lot of very different theological backgrounds.

I didn't "become" a Lutheran so I could check "Lutheran" on Christian websites or because the Luther Rose symbol was the prettiest of the bunch. It's because Scripture pulled me in a direction I never would have imagined years ago, that as I read Scripture and tried to take it as serious as possible I found that much of what I read in Scripture matched what I was hearing when I had conversations with Lutherans, and what I found myself reading in the Lutheran Confessions and some of the writings of Martin Luther. It happened quite by accident and quite organically. If I had simply needed a check mark or denominational label, if I had simply wanted to stick to what I was told by my parents, teachers, youth leaders, and pastors I would have been quite content either in the Foursquare church my family attended or the non-denominational "Bible church" that my Christian friends attended.

Instead, I wanted to study the Bible. I wanted study the history of my Christian faith, I wanted to learn what Christians have believed historically. I wanted to know what Christians from other theological backgrounds believed. When I began to do that, I began to wonder why nobody had told me about this, or that; I began to find that many things I had been taught didn't match up to Scripture. But I did find that many things in Scripture matched up with what Christianity had historically taught. I began wanting to know about the oldest theological traditions. I wanted to learn about Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, I learned about other ancient communions such as the Oriental Orthodox of Egypt, Syria, India, and Ethiopia. Certain things rose to the surface, these different groups separated by centuries of disagreement still shared many things in common--things I not only found when I read Scripture, but things that consistently popped up as I read about the ancient Church and read the writings of the Church Fathers. I was finding out that these were things Christians had always and everywhere believed, that these were things that the Protestant Reformers believed. I learned more about the Reformation, I learned why Luther nailed those 95 Theses, I learned all these things.

I didn't just want to be a pew warmer at Such-and-Such Church, I wanted to share in the faith, which St. Jude writes in his letter, has been delivered once and for all to all the saints. I could do that in a Lutheran community, I could confess what Christians have always confessed--the utmost importance of the Word, the role of the Holy Sacraments, and most importantly where I could consistently hear and receive God's most precious and saving Gospel. The Gospel uncensored and unfiltered.

Perhaps your experiences have been different and led you elsewhere. But let's not pretend for one moment that anyone who calls themselves a Christian is somehow just a "generic Christian" without any theological biases or influences that have shaped how they approach their Christian faith. Whether or not you have some denominational "label" or not is superfluous, everyone carries with them a theological lens which they have either received in whole or in part, or which has been crafted from a lifetime of experiences and study.

Nobody opens the Bible and has God magically transport biblical truth inside their brains. Not even the Lord's own Apostles had that, they too needed to study, to learn, and to grow. They spent years learning at the feet of the Son of God Himself, and even after the Spirit fell upon them on Pentecost--even then--they had to continue to grow and to learn. If it was like this for even those closest to the Lord when He walked amongst us, why should it be easier for us today?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Albion]

What I am getting at is the fact that its a persons beliefs in which you put your trust in, and a denomination, rather than just being a follower of Christ.

This is unfair to the majority of people who have not allowed themselves to be led, dumbly, like sheep.

Most of us came to our denominational preferences through having carefully studied the Bible, history, and theology, not because we've surrendered our brains to the nearest pastor. AFTER coming to our conclusions, we sought out the church(es) that we recognized as being correct. It did not happen the other way around.

In every denomination, there was always a man who started it, who had his own personal beliefs, and made it into a belief system.

This is the easy reasoning that so many believe, but it is not so with most denominations. The cults, yes, but for most denominations, that's a grossly simplistic statement.

 

[Leuko Petra]

What I am getting at is the fact that its a persons beliefs in which you put your trust in, and a denomination, rather than just being a follower of Christ. In every denomination, there was always a man who started it, who had his own personal beliefs, and made it into a belief system. So rather than claiming that you are of a certain denomination, no matter how close to the truth, why don't you say that you follow Christ, and what He said in His word? Denominations always have these set beliefs that they believe personally, rather than, God says.

Find out who these are:

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Revelation 14:4

Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

...and you will have found the people of God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you may look again, the Seventh Day Adventist movement is no run-of-the-mill 'denomination', but rather a prophetically called forth world-wide movement, calling all faithful followers of Jesus Christ into its [His] body, and out from Babylon and her many daughters.

Yup. And so say the Mormons, Watchtower Society, the former Worldwide Church of God, the Christian Scientists, etc. I will grant that none of these, as well as the SDA are "run-of-the-mill" denominations. However, I do not believe for a moment that any of them possess the fullness of God's revelation.

 

[Leuko Petra]

Yup. ...

The invitation to test by scripture is still open, whenever you would like to do that, please let me know.

 

[jenjen486]

I didn't grow up Lutheran, I didn't set out to become Lutheran. I spent years churchless and hopping around to various churches, the entire time was also spent intensely reading Scripture, exploring the history of the Christian Church, engaging in conversations, debates, and discussion with Christians from a lot of very different theological backgrounds.

I didn't "become" a Lutheran so I could check "Lutheran" on Christian websites or because the Luther Rose symbol was the prettiest of the bunch. It's because Scripture pulled me in a direction I never would have imagined years ago, that as I read Scripture and tried to take it as serious as possible I found that much of what I read in Scripture matched what I was hearing when I had conversations with Lutherans, and what I found myself reading in the Lutheran Confessions and some of the writings of Martin Luther. It happened quite by accident and quite organically. If I had simply needed a check mark or denominational label, if I had simply wanted to stick to what I was told by my parents, teachers, youth leaders, and pastors I would have been quite content either in the Foursquare church my family attended or the non-denominational "Bible church" that my Christian friends attended.

Instead, I wanted to study the Bible. I wanted study the history of my Christian faith, I wanted to learn what Christians have believed historically. I wanted to know what Christians from other theological backgrounds believed. When I began to do that, I began to wonder why nobody had told me about this, or that; I began to find that many things I had been taught didn't match up to Scripture. But I did find that many things in Scripture matched up with what Christianity had historically taught. I began wanting to know about the oldest theological traditions. I wanted to learn about Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, I learned about other ancient communions such as the Oriental Orthodox of Egypt, Syria, India, and Ethiopia. Certain things rose to the surface, these different groups separated by centuries of disagreement still shared many things in common--things I not only found when I read Scripture, but things that consistently popped up as I read about the ancient Church and read the writings of the Church Fathers. I was finding out that these were things Christians had always and everywhere believed, that these were things that the Protestant Reformers believed. I learned more about the Reformation, I learned why Luther nailed those 95 Theses, I learned all these things.

I didn't just want to be a pew warmer at Such-and-Such Church, I wanted to share in the faith, which St. Jude writes in his letter, has been delivered once and for all to all the saints. I could do that in a Lutheran community, I could confess what Christians have always confessed--the utmost importance of the Word, the role of the Holy Sacraments, and most importantly where I could consistently hear and receive God's most precious and saving Gospel. The Gospel uncensored and unfiltered.

Perhaps your experiences have been different and led you elsewhere. But let's not pretend for one moment that anyone who calls themselves a Christian is somehow just a "generic Christian" without any theological biases or influences that have shaped how they approach their Christian faith. Whether or not you have some denominational "label" or not is superfluous, everyone carries with them a theological lens which they have either received in whole or in part, or which has been crafted from a lifetime of experiences and study.

Nobody opens the Bible and has God magically transport biblical truth inside their brains. Not even the Lord's own Apostles had that, they too needed to study, to learn, and to grow. They spent years learning at the feet of the Son of God Himself, and even after the Spirit fell upon them on Pentecost--even then--they had to continue to grow and to learn. If it was like this for even those closest to the Lord when He walked amongst us, why should it be easier for us today?

-CryptoLutheran

They received what they knew from the Word Himself. After He left, and they received the Holy Spirit, they did not study all of these kinds of things: "Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, ancient communions such as the Oriental Orthodox of Egypt, Syria, India, and Ethiopia." They received the Spirit, and everything that Christ told them, the Spirit reminded them of it. They were the ones who wrote the scriptures, because God spoke to them through the Holy Spirit, and it did appear in their minds, because God breathed it into them. When we read the word of God, we are supposed to be taught of God, not try to go to different books and study on other things, to receive truth, God reveals it to us by His Spirit. This is the way it has always happened with the holy men of the past, the true prophets of God, and apostles.

The only lens we should carry, is the Holy Spirit in us, who opens our eyes to see.

 

[jenjen486]

This is unfair to the majority of people who have not allowed themselves to be led, dumbly, like sheep.

Most of us came to our denominational preferences through having carefully studied the Bible, history, and theology, not because we've surrendered our brains to the nearest pastor. AFTER coming to our conclusions, we sought out the church(es) that we recognized as being correct. It did not happen the other way around.



This is the easy reasoning that so many believe, but it is not so with most denominations. The cults, yes, but for most denominations, that's a grossly simplistic statement.

It is not the majority who have not been deceived, rather, the majority have allowed themselves to be deceived. "the way is narrow, and few there are that find it, broad is the way to destruction, and there are many who go in by it".

Right, many have come to their OWN conclusion, rather than what God says. I have been to many many churches, and though me and many others have tried to show them where they had gone away from the Word, no one wanted to listen, even though, scripture was plain in their face, they would rather believe what they want to (their own conclusions), rather than the hard truth of God.

2 Timothy 4:2-4
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

 

[ViaCrucis]

They received what they knew from the Word Himself. After He left, and they received the Holy Spirit, they did not study all of these kinds of things: "Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, ancient communions such as the Oriental Orthodox of Egypt, Syria, India, and Ethiopia." They received the Spirit, and everything that Christ told them, the Spirit reminded them of it. They were the ones who wrote the scriptures, because God spoke to them through the Holy Spirit, and it did appear in their minds, because God breathed it into them. When we read the word of God, we are supposed to be taught of God, not try to go to different books and study on other things, to receive truth, God reveals it to us by His Spirit. This is the way it has always happened with the holy men of the past, the true prophets of God, and apostles.

The only lens we should carry, is the Holy Spirit in us, who opens our eyes to see.

Read Acts 18. Tell me, did St. Apollos have God zap everything directly into his mind, or did he have to learn from those more knowledgeable than himself? Why didn't Apollos just sit in a corner by himself with a couple scrolls of Scripture? Did Priscilla and Aquila do wrong by taking him under their tutelage?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[St_Worm2]

They received what they knew from the Word Himself. After He left, and they received the Holy Spirit, they did not study all of these kinds of things: "Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, ancient communions such as the Oriental Orthodox of Egypt, Syria, India, and Ethiopia." They received the Spirit, and everything that Christ told them, the Spirit reminded them of it. They were the ones who wrote the scriptures, because God spoke to them through the Holy Spirit, and it did appear in their minds, because God breathed it into them. When we read the word of God, we are supposed to be taught of God, not try to go to different books and study on other things, to receive truth, God reveals it to us by His Spirit. This is the way it has always happened with the holy men of the past, the true prophets of God, and apostles.

The only lens we should carry, is the Holy Spirit in us, who opens our eyes to see.

Hi JenJen, if we, as you have proposed, are to read the Scriptures and be taught by the HS alone, why did God appoint "teachers" as part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:28)? What was His point in doing so?

Likewise, why did the Lord through St. Paul exhort us to "desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that we may prophesy" (1 Corinthians 14:1)? If all of the truth, knowledge, and understanding we need comes to each one of us directly from God and His word, why the need for prophets to tell us anything?