Which is easier...?

[AV1611VET]

But this is the first time I recall him using Nazis.

That's the first thing I thought of when I read creationists "come in a box."

 

[Split Rock]

Break out the C-Rats!
Gather up weapons and ammo!
Take positions!
ZOMBIE THREAD!!!!!!

I have my shotgun and an ax ready!

 

[Split Rock]

* By the way, this poll is still open. *

I would vote if there was a "D' choice... "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

[PsychoSarah]

I think this is a good topic.
I don't think its a good idea to push something onto someone who is not interested in learning whether its evolution or creationism
Let both have their own views without the need to push it down the others throat.

Creationists will not do that, because the bible encourages conversion to the point of near obligation. It would be "against their beliefs" not to shove their beliefs down everyones' throats.

 

[AV1611VET]

Creationists will not do that, because the bible encourages conversion to the point of near obligation.

Conversion to what? Jesus Christ or creationism?

It would be "against their beliefs" not to shove their beliefs down everyones' throats.

Only with permission.

You want to come to catechism, new converts class, Sunday school, or church, that's your prerogative.

But then don't harp that we're "shoving our beliefs" down your throat.

You don't like our beliefs? don't park your car in our parking lot.

Or we'll have it towed.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Conversion to what? Jesus Christ or creationism?

Only with permission.

You want to come to catechism, new converts class, Sunday school, or church, that's your prerogative.

But then don't harp that we're "shoving our beliefs" down your throat.

You don't like our beliefs? don't park your car in our parking lot.

Or we'll have it towed.

-_- with permission?! Sir, I have been assulted by people for being openly atheist, and many who hear it immediately try to convert me. Last time I checked, being open about my views is not an invitation for others to try to argue theirs.

I only have a problem when it gets to the harassment and assult levels though, seeing as I retain the fact that I would love to hear something that would convert me.

Those tend to go hand-in-hand with some people, but mostly conversion to Christianity.

 

[AV1611VET]

I only have a problem when it gets to the harassment and assult levels though,

Well, I can only speak for our church, seeing as I'm an Independent Baptist and all; but I have to ask:

What kind of neighborhood do you live in, anyway?

One that assaults people for being an atheist?

... seeing as I retain the fact that I would love to hear something that would convert me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do get the feeling you (and some others here) want a "forced conversion."

That is, you want to be so overwhelmed with evidence that you have no choice but to "do the right thing" and convert.

And that's not gonna happen -- not in this dispensation.

And for your information, in the next dispensation, when Jesus Christ actually rules and reigns on the earth physically for 1000 years, here's what happens at the end ...

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9a And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

If you think physical evidence is compelling enough to get saved ... you're wrong.

It'll do just the opposite.

This is why I say I'm glad they'll never find Noah's Ark.

It'll just make things worse.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well, I can only speak for our church, seeing as I'm an Independent Baptist and all; but I have to ask:

What kind of neighborhood do you live in, anyway?

One that assaults people for being an atheist?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do get the feeling you (and some others here) want a "forced conversion."

That is, you want to be so overwhelmed with evidence that you have no choice but to "do the right thing" and convert.

And that's not gonna happen -- not in this dispensation.

And for your information, in the next dispensation, when Jesus Christ actually rules and reigns on the earth physically for 1000 years, here's what happens at the end ...

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9a And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

If you think physical evidence is compelling enough to get saved ... you're wrong.

It'll do just the opposite.

This is why I say I'm glad they'll never find Noah's Ark.

It'll just make things worse.

I would rather not specify my location on a forum like this.

why wouldn't good physical evidence be convincing to me, or anyone else for that matter?

 

[AV1611VET]

why wouldn't good physical evidence be convincing to me, or anyone else for that matter?

Because physical evidence didn't get you lost in the first place, and physical evidence isn't going to get you saved.

You only use physical evidence to "stay lost."

In other words, as an excuse not to get saved.

The problem isn't a mental one, it is a spiritual one.

Note what Abraham tells the rich man, who begs Abraham to send someone to his lost brothers ...

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[crjmurray]

Because physical evidence didn't get you lost in the first place, and physical evidence isn't going to get you saved.

You only use physical evidence to "stay lost."

In other words, as an excuse not to get saved.

The problem isn't a mental one, it is a spiritual one.

Note what Abraham tells the rich man, who begs Abraham to send someone to his lost brothers ...

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And that's where you're wrong

 

[AV1611VET]

And that's where you're wrong

Yes, but I'm not going there with Sarah.

The fact is, she was born a sinner, and we'll leave it at that.

 

[Mediate]

Well, I can only speak for our church, seeing as I'm an Independent Baptist and all; but I have to ask:

What kind of neighborhood do you live in, anyway?

One that assaults people for being an atheist?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do get the feeling you (and some others here) want a "forced conversion."

That is, you want to be so overwhelmed with evidence that you have no choice but to "do the right thing" and convert.

And that's not gonna happen -- not in this dispensation.

And for your information, in the next dispensation, when Jesus Christ actually rules and reigns on the earth physically for 1000 years, here's what happens at the end ...

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9a And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

If you think physical evidence is compelling enough to get saved ... you're wrong.

It'll do just the opposite.

This is why I say I'm glad they'll never find Noah's Ark.

It'll just make things worse.

Then your version of ''god'' is by any rational standards a barbarian who has no knowledge of what knowledge is or how logic works, and I'd rather burn in hell than serve him or believe in him. A god that requires the threat of eternal torture to impart a twisted moral framework -- by reasoning that he has made a hell at all -- has no real power at all. If logic and verifiable, rational knowledge imparted are not sufficient forms of teaching then I do not desire to be taught.

And I imagine that if a god of some kind did indeed make a universe as intricate and magnificent as this, and did make beings as innately attuned to what is logical and what is not, then I would imagine he is not small minded enough to be contained in the homophobic, racist, chauvinistic sexist ramblings of a text and its seed texts written by largely unknown authors in the deserts and towns and cities of some of the most hostile historic parts of the world - texts which claim an exodus of the largest slave force ever in the history of the world of which there exists absolutely no archeological evidence; texts which claim a creator God of all knowing power and eternal absolute love vicious enough to create a species with the foresight of their imperfection and damn them to hell unless they believe in the dogma that he became a human form of himself to sacrifice himself and appease himself for the sins of the creations he created and sin whose boundaries and definitions he arbitrarily defined; texts which assert that such a magnificent being as one having the power to create a universe of physical logic has demanded men to believe such irrational and illogical things.

If compelling evidence isn't sufficient enough to convince nor to be allowed to convince (as you clearly think it is not), maybe you should simply retreat from any and all scientific discussion in future and leave it to people who respect the formulaic logic and magnificence that underpins the universe your god apparently created -- for you clearly do not respect it.

 

[AV1611VET]

... and I'd rather burn in hell than serve him or believe in him.

He won't disappoint you then.

 

[Mediate]

He won't disappoint you then.

Proxy threats and efforts at fear-mongering. The last gasp desperation of a dying religion. ''He'' won't disappoint me mostly because he - ''he'' being ''the god of absolute ''love'' who contrarily tortures mortal beings who by his own reckoning have imperfect knowledge of existence'' - doesn't exist.

You're wasting your life worshiping an engineered sociopolitical control mechanism designed and bolstered by very wily politicians eager to retain a vast empire in the face of a potential religious war.

Truth is, Jesus of Nazareth believed something entirely different to that which you do -- something infinitely more profound and intelligent.

 

[AV1611VET]

Proxy threats and efforts at fear-mongering. The last gasp desperation of a dying religion. ''He'' won't disappoint me mostly because he - ''he'' being ''the god of absolute ''love'' who contrarily tortures mortal beings who by his own reckoning have imperfect knowledge of existence'' - doesn't exist.

You're wasting your life worshiping an engineered sociopolitical control mechanism designed and bolstered by very wily politicians eager to retain a vast empire in the face of a potential religious war.

Truth is, Jesus of Nazareth believed something entirely different to that which you do -- something infinitely more profound and intelligent.

Can you take a breath long enough to vote?

 

[TLK Valentine]

"An evolutionist to sit through Instant Creation 101" -- just treat it like any other course on mythology and fairy tales.

 

[crjmurray]

Then your version of ''god'' is by any rational standards a barbarian who has no knowledge of what knowledge is or how logic works, and I'd rather burn in hell than serve him or believe in him. A god that requires the threat of eternal torture to impart a twisted moral framework -- by reasoning that he has made a hell at all -- has no real power at all. If logic and verifiable, rational knowledge imparted are not sufficient forms of teaching then I do not desire to be taught.

And I imagine that if a god of some kind did indeed make a universe as intricate and magnificent as this, and did make beings as innately attuned to what is logical and what is not, then I would imagine he is not small minded enough to be contained in the homophobic, racist, chauvinistic sexist ramblings of a text and its seed texts written by largely unknown authors in the deserts and towns and cities of some of the most hostile historic parts of the world - texts which claim an exodus of the largest slave force ever in the history of the world of which there exists absolutely no archeological evidence; texts which claim a creator God of all knowing power and eternal absolute love vicious enough to create a species with the foresight of their imperfection and damn them to hell unless they believe in the dogma that he became a human form of himself to sacrifice himself and appease himself for the sins of the creations he created and sin whose boundaries and definitions he arbitrarily defined; texts which assert that such a magnificent being as one having the power to create a universe of physical logic has demanded men to believe such irrational and illogical things.

If compelling evidence isn't sufficient enough to convince nor to be allowed to convince (as you clearly think it is not), maybe you should simply retreat from any and all scientific discussion in future and leave it to people who respect the formulaic logic and magnificence that underpins the universe your god apparently created -- for you clearly do not respect it.

How the hell has this guy lasted since 2013?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

How the hell has this guy lasted since 2013?

He does sound quite irate, but remove the angry tone and the content is familiar material and unanswerable, which is why AV1611VET was reduced to a mumbled comment about hell.

 

[JacksBratt]

For the people posting on this thread, or in this "creation and evolution" forum, I believe it would be the same no matter what side you sit on.

I don't see anyone here who is going to walk the floor to the other side anytime soon, if ever.

We are pretty set in our belief and solid enough to keep coming back for the digs, barbs, slams and jabs.

We all research and investigate to find the latest of most accredited information that backs our claims.

We are a stubborn and loyal bunch. I salute everyone on their dedication to their stance on their view.

It's the people who view, cruise and observe the arguments on this forum that I pray for.

I hope that they can find peace and solace in a way of life that they can have the same passion for as the rest of us here.

For me, sitting through a course on evolution 101 would probably cause any number of emotions to come to the surface.

In the end, the time I have spent here has done one thing for sure. In my researching, and investigating, it has given me new knowledge into the existing data, views of the scientific world, attitudes of the evolutionists, perception of the holy scriptures and insight into the views of others who profess to be brothers in Christ.
This, as a sum total, has increased my faith and solidified my belief in Christ and His word.

Marnatha

 

[TLK Valentine]

For the people posting on this thread, or in this "creation and evolution" forum, I believe it would be the same no matter what side you sit on.

I don't see anyone here who is going to walk the floor to the other side anytime soon, if ever.

We are pretty set in our belief and solid enough to keep coming back for the digs, barbs, slams and jabs.

We all research and investigate to find the latest of most accredited information that backs our claims.

We are a stubborn and loyal bunch. I salute everyone on their dedication to their stance on their view.

It's the people who view, cruise and observe the arguments on this forum that I pray for.

I hope that they can find peace and solace in a way of life that they can have the same passion for as the rest of us here.

For me, sitting through a course on evolution 101 would probably cause any number of emotions to come to the surface.

In the end, the time I have spent here has done one thing for sure. In my researching, and investigating, it has given me new knowledge into the existing data, views of the scientific world, attitudes of the evolutionists, perception of the holy scriptures and insight into the views of others who profess to be brothers in Christ.
This, as a sum total, has increased my faith and solidified my belief in Christ and His word.

Marnatha

Actually, Jack, there have been former (and possibly current; I'm fuzzy on the names) forum regulars who have changed their minds at least in part due to the discussions on this board.

Perhaps if a few of them will speak up?