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Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)
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Normann said:
It's the 7th day period. You see, it's important that we not make the timezone the impetus here, but that we bring the principle for which it was established into focus.
It is a day that God blessed and sanctified, thus setting it apart from every other day, for the purpose of giving man an opportunity to not merely rest in Him, and thus enjoy the blessing of the Sabbath day, but also to remind Him that he is worshipping the God that created the universe. Thus it is a memorial of creation. And until God says it is no more, it remains.
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BrightCandle
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Normann said:
The SDA position regarding the Sabbath is based on common sense, not on going to the nth degree to find a way to not keep the Sabbath. Norman, the answer to this issue is so simple, if you were living during the time of Jesus and He said: Norman "If you love me keep my commandments", would you then come up with all of these time zone arguments? No, because the people in those ancient time didn't know anything about time zones. Time zones are a man made thing, that did not exist for most of the history of civilization. When the Sabbath commandment was written there was no mention of time zones, because all that you need to do is honor the Sabbath every 7th day following the 7 day weekly cycle that we have not lost track of since the time of Christ. To not honor the Sabbat as it is written is a denial that Jesus can empower us to do so. If He can give us the power to honor the other 9 commandments in our day and age, can He not empower us to honor the Sabbath?
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Normann said:
I suppoe there is always going to be someone who will find an exuse not to keep the Sabbath.
I keep it on my 7th day and you keep it on your 7th day.
I do not see a problem with that.
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Here are all of the commandments and right in the middle of them is the Sabbath commandment.
It tells us the day to keep, the 7th day.
Exodus 20
1And God spake all these words, saying,
2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
It tells us the day to keep, the 7th day.
Exodus 20
1And God spake all these words, saying,
2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
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rstrats
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Since Normann doesnt believe that the first seven days of Genesis 1 established the seven day week , with the seventh day being designated the Sabbath (Exodus 20:11), there is really no way to discuss the Sabbath with him. That, plus his practice of ignoring any questions asked of him.
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Normann
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Cliff2 said:
That's what I said Brother Cliff, if you cross the IDL at the exact time you will miss the Sabbath or at least most of it. If you keep it according to a calendar then you break the Sabbath because your time zone is 24 hours different than mine!
If I was to join the SDA which day sould I keep the Sabbath, your Saturday or mine?
For sure then we won't be keeping the same day as the Sabbath because you will be back to work by the time I have a Saturday!
As the commandment reads, the Sabbath is the seventh day after we work six days, but not a certain day.
Norm
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Normann
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Cliff2 said:
Good for you, Cliff, finally you see the light. It's what I've been trying to tell you all along that the Sabbath is not a set day but it is the day of rest after 6 days of work. Now my friend here in America can keep the Sabbath on Wednesday, because he works from Thursday through Tuesday.
Thanks Buddy,
Norm
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BrightCandle
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Normann said:
Norm: Cliff sees the light, but you don't. What he was saying is: Norm, you keep the 7th day Sabbath (which is known as Saturday in the USA), and Cliff will keep the 7th day Sabbath (which is Saturday in AU as well).
Norm, where your argument falls apart is that Jesus had a reason for saying that the 7th day is Sabbath. He did not say select any day after you have worked six days in a row, and then rest on the 7th day, wherever that day happens to fall. You are in essence creating your own 4th commandment according to Norman, not according to Jesus.
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oldsage
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BrightCandle said:
I have already pointed this out to Normann, but he ignored it, just like he ignores any questions toward him. I think Normann is a robot, because he is really only focused on one thing and when he is challenged with anything to refute his position, he just ignores it.
so, with that said, unless Normann will answer questions, I see no reason to continue this with him. He only carries a one sided conversation and he really doesn't seem interesting in conversing with others. His arguments have been addressed and he has yet to respond to any of them.
Chris
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BrightCandle
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oldsage said:
Chris: I think that you "head the nail on the head". Sometimes we have to just leave some individuals in the hands of God. He has a thousand ways to get the message across to them, if they really have a "ear to hear".
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Normann said:
Normann
What are you talking about.
I keep the 7th day out here in Australia and when the 7th day of the week comes to you then that is the day you should keep holy.
Wednesday, Thursday or any day that is not the 7th can never be holy.
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"The first day of each of the three feasts. Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was " a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile work was to be done. See Leviticus 23:7, 24, 35. Compare Exodus 12:16."
When Christ was crucified the day before the Passover, it was the 14th day of Nisan - the preparation day, our Tuesday sunset to Wednesday sunset.
"Six Days Before The Passover" (John 12:1).
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rstrats
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Rvincent,
re: "The first day of each of the three feasts. Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was a holy convocation, a sabbath on which no servile work was to be done. See Leviticus 23:7, 24, 35. Compare Exodus 12:16."
The convocation or gathering was holy, not the day.
re: "The first day of each of the three feasts. Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was a holy convocation, a sabbath on which no servile work was to be done. See Leviticus 23:7, 24, 35. Compare Exodus 12:16."
The convocation or gathering was holy, not the day.
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RVincent said:
There are only two days of the week given names in the Bible. The preparation day [6th day ] and the Sabbath [7th day] In fact in the Greek language friday is called preperation day and Saturday is called Sabbath day.
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rstrats
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ThreeAM,
re: "There are only two days of the week given names in the Bible. The preparation day [6th day ] and the Sabbath [7th day]."
I am not aware of any scripture that actually identifies the 6th day of the week as the preparation day.
re: "There are only two days of the week given names in the Bible. The preparation day [6th day ] and the Sabbath [7th day]."
I am not aware of any scripture that actually identifies the 6th day of the week as the preparation day.
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Eh, splitting hairs a bit, semantics maybe. If something has been "set apart" for a sacred purpose, it is "qodesh".
"I. That the first day of each of the three feasts. Passover, Pentecost, and
Tabernacles, was " a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile
work was to be done. See Leviticus 23:7, 24, 35. Compare Exodus 12:16.
"That sabbath" and the "high day" of John 19:31, was the "holy
convocation", the first day of the feast, which quite overshadowed the
ordinary weekly sabbath.
It was called by the Jews Yom tov = (Good day), and this is the greeting on
that day throughout Jewry down to the present time.
This great sabbath, having been mistaken from the earliest times for the
weekly sabbath, has led to all the confusion.
II. This has naturally caused the futher difficulty as to the Lord's statement that "even as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three
nights" (Matthew 12:40). Now, while it is quite correct to speak according to Hebrew idiom of "three days" or "three years", while they are only parts of three days or three years, yet that idiom does not apply in a case like this, where "three nights" are mentioned in addition to "three days". It will be
noted that the Lord not only definitely states this, but repeats the full phraseology, so that we may not mistake it. See the subject fully discussed in Appendix 144."
III. We have therefore the following facts furnished for our sure guidance:
1. The "high day" of John 19:31 was the first day of the feast.
2. The "first day of the feast" was on the 15th day of Nisan.
3. The 15th day of Nisan, commenced at sunset on what we should call
the 14th.
4. "Six days before the passover" (John 12:1) takes us back to the 9th
day of Nisan.
5. "After two days is the passover" (Matthew 26:2. Mark 14:1) takes us
to the 13th day of Nisan.
6. "The first day of the week", the day of the resurrection (Matthew
28:1, etc.), was from our Saturday sunset to our Sunday sunset. This
fixes the days of the week, just as the above fix the days of the
month, for:
7. Reckoning back from this, "three days and three nights" (Matthew
12:40), we arrive at the day of the burial, which must have been before
sunset, on the 14th of Nisan; that is to say, before our Wednesday
sunset.
8. This makes the sixth day before the passover (the 9th day of Nisan) to
be our Thursday sunset to Friday sunset. Therefore Wednesday, Nisan 14th (commencing on the Tuesday at sunset), was "the preparation day", on which the crucifixion took place: for all four Gospels difinitely say that this was the day on which the Lord was buried (before our Wednesday sunset), "because it was the preparation [day]" the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, "for that sabbath day was a high day", and, therefore, not the ordinary seventh day, or weekly sabbath.
"I. That the first day of each of the three feasts. Passover, Pentecost, and
Tabernacles, was " a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile
work was to be done. See Leviticus 23:7, 24, 35. Compare Exodus 12:16.
"That sabbath" and the "high day" of John 19:31, was the "holy
convocation", the first day of the feast, which quite overshadowed the
ordinary weekly sabbath.
It was called by the Jews Yom tov = (Good day), and this is the greeting on
that day throughout Jewry down to the present time.
This great sabbath, having been mistaken from the earliest times for the
weekly sabbath, has led to all the confusion.
II. This has naturally caused the futher difficulty as to the Lord's statement that "even as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three
nights" (Matthew 12:40). Now, while it is quite correct to speak according to Hebrew idiom of "three days" or "three years", while they are only parts of three days or three years, yet that idiom does not apply in a case like this, where "three nights" are mentioned in addition to "three days". It will be
noted that the Lord not only definitely states this, but repeats the full phraseology, so that we may not mistake it. See the subject fully discussed in Appendix 144."
III. We have therefore the following facts furnished for our sure guidance:
1. The "high day" of John 19:31 was the first day of the feast.
2. The "first day of the feast" was on the 15th day of Nisan.
3. The 15th day of Nisan, commenced at sunset on what we should call
the 14th.
4. "Six days before the passover" (John 12:1) takes us back to the 9th
day of Nisan.
5. "After two days is the passover" (Matthew 26:2. Mark 14:1) takes us
to the 13th day of Nisan.
6. "The first day of the week", the day of the resurrection (Matthew
28:1, etc.), was from our Saturday sunset to our Sunday sunset. This
fixes the days of the week, just as the above fix the days of the
month, for:
7. Reckoning back from this, "three days and three nights" (Matthew
12:40), we arrive at the day of the burial, which must have been before
sunset, on the 14th of Nisan; that is to say, before our Wednesday
sunset.
8. This makes the sixth day before the passover (the 9th day of Nisan) to
be our Thursday sunset to Friday sunset. Therefore Wednesday, Nisan 14th (commencing on the Tuesday at sunset), was "the preparation day", on which the crucifixion took place: for all four Gospels difinitely say that this was the day on which the Lord was buried (before our Wednesday sunset), "because it was the preparation [day]" the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, "for that sabbath day was a high day", and, therefore, not the ordinary seventh day, or weekly sabbath.
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