Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
jochanaan said:He didn't need to, Oblio; the Pharisees rebuked such people much more thoroughly and without Jesus' mercy.
Oblio said:Oblio wonders where the passages where Jesus rebukes those who worked on the Sabbath are ...
jochanaan said:If you follow your logic to its conclusion, linssue, it becomes necessary to conclude that ALL the Old Testament laws--the Ten, the two that Jesus said were the greatest, and certainly the other six hundred-plus Levitical laws--have been "set aside for the Church age." Are you saying that the laws regarding idolatry, taking God's name falsely, honoring parents, and the rest have all been set aside? If so, which laws do we follow, if any? If not, how do we discern which laws have been set aside and which are still good for Christians to follow?
I for one believe that the Lord doesn't change from age to age. If something about Him was true in Old or New Testament times, it should still be true today. (Please: I am not saying anything about "dispensations." That's another thread.) Therefore we must compare any new insights we feel the Holy Spirit has given us--and I do not deny that He can give us new insights every day!--with the Bible, which most of us agree contains true statements about God and His ways.
It's strange how many of those who defend Sunday feel compelled to write extensive dissertations regarding their beliefs, while all we Sabbath-keepers have to do is to quote a few clear Scripture passages.
linssue55 said:The Sabbath is set aside in the Church Age,
Col. 2:16-17~~ (Exegesis)
16.~~Consequently, STOP allowing anyone to judge you in eating and drinking,
or in the matter of a feast, or of the new month, or of the Sabbaths.
{Note: This is refering to 'legalism'. Someone trying to tell you that you have to follow rituals of the Jewish Age.}
17~~ Which {rituals} kept on being a shadow
of those things about to come,
but the reality is from the source of Christ.
{Note: the Jewish Age rituals were 'shadows' of the reality that was and is Christ. The Jewish Age looked forward to the cross. The Church age looks back on the cross}.
linssue55 said:Moment-by-Moment Sabbath for the Church Age.
1. We in the Church Age do not have a Saturday Sabbath. It didnt work too well for the Jews, so for the Church Age, God beefed it up and gave us a moment-by-moment Sabbath.
2. This is the faith-rest technique, Heb 4:1-3. This is the principle by which the believer enters into the supergrace life. So your moment-by- moment Sabbath means your spiritual advance, and your annual Sabbatical is comparable to the supergrace life.
3. Illustrations of this moment-by-moment Sabbath, or the dynamics of faith-rest.
a. Abraham, Rom 4:17-21.
b. Moses at the Red Sea, Ex 14:10-14.
c. The bones of Joseph, Heb 11:22.
d. Caleb and the Giants, Num 13 and 14 cf. Josh 14:6-14, 15:14; Judges 1:20.
4. So it is inevitable that the daily function of GAP (grace apparatus for perception, taking in doctrine everyday) also the daily function of the faith-rest technique will eventuate in the supergrace life which is your spiritual Sabbatical year.
linssue55 said:When ONE is filled with the Holy Spirit (in fellowship), that ONE is following ALL of God's mandates.....something the law failed to do, that is why we are under grace in the church age.
{Note: Break one Mosaic Law and you are guilty of breaking them all - Deuteronomy 27:26 - which is part of the Mosaic Law. To be saved by WORKS you must be PERFECT! And, only Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law. "I do not come to break the law, but to fulfill it."}
That passage is pretty clear that Christ has taken us "out from" being under the curse of the Law
I am not sure what your idea of how those in the hebrew scriptures were saved. But the Law was never there to save anyone nor to justify anyone, it is there to convict those of sin. Salvation has always been by grace from the Creation of the world 6000 some odd years ago, to now. If there was a law that could save then Jesus would never had to come. The passage you posted in Galatians 3 has to do with 'justification' the law wasn't made for justification but for conviction. The law in part tells us how to live the right way and it also teaches us the plan of God for the world.
If I could keep the law perfectly from the time of my conception till death or the second coming, I would still die in my sins unless I have been justified by the grace of God. We are born fallen, and with that stain on us we need Jesus to cleanse us, we would never be able to do it on our own.
those two verses are not as cut and dry as you think.linssue55 said:I follow what the Lord tells me to follow for THIS dispensation, the church. I do not allow the dictates of men to tell me different from what the Lord says, those who choose to follow what they believe is their business, not mine. Theses 2 verse are VERY EASY to understand..........
this is just chest thumping. Those of us who have been discussing this issue all believe they follow what the Lord wants, else we would change. Following the Law's of God isn't the same as following the traditions of man. The bible didn't come up with the idea of 'church age' this is a teaching of man. The bible is a continuous book, follows a specific plan of God and isn't broken up in 'stewardships' of time. Salvation is the same for all people in all times an places, it is ONLY by the grace of God, because there is no way for man to save himself.linssue55 said:I will follow the word, and forget all the so called laws of men. I WILL DO what the Lord tells me to do. Men (people) of the church age follow their own personal traditions and predjudices,.....I do NOT. I follow the Lord's mandates, what "I" think means nothing to me or to the Lord, I am a TRUE obedient child to His word.....Period!
blessings,
Chris
linssue55 said:[/size]
No! You are dead wrong.
The Sabbath is set aside in the Church Age,
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Col. 2:16-17~~ (Exegesis)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]16.~~Consequently, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]STOP allowing anyone to judge you in eating and drinking,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]or in the matter of a feast, or of the new month, or of the Sabbaths.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: This is refering to 'legalism'. Someone trying to tell you that you have to follow rituals of the Jewish Age.}[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]17~~ Which {rituals} kept on being a shadow[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]of those things about to come,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]but the reality is from the source of Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: the Jewish Age rituals were 'shadows' of the reality that was and is Christ. The Jewish Age looked forward to the cross. The Church age looks back on the cross}.[/FONT]
LOL, sorry but sanctification is something "HE" does for us at Salvation.......It is NOT something we do....
The doctrine of sanctification
1. Definition.
a) Sanctification means to be set apart as sacred, to be consecrated to God.
b) It means more than that, it means to be under contract to God forever.
c) The actual death of Christ set aside the old contract, the old covenant, the Mosaic law. We do not have a shadow contract.
d) The old contract, therefore, is annulled or abrogated.
e) The new contract/covenant, called new testament, is for the royal priesthood of the Church Age. It is for royalty, it is for priests.
f) Therefore in the strictest sense of the meaning sanctification connotes the believer of the Church Age under contract to God forever. The contract calls for the believer to be royalty.
g) The contract is provided on the basis of the efficacious once-and-for-all sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
h) You signed the contract the moment you believed in Jesus Christ. Phase one sanctification: baptism of the Holy Spirit; phase two sanctification: filling of the Holy Spirit + positive volition toward doctrine = experiential sanctification and/or supergrace; phase three sanctification: absent from the body, face to face with the Lord in a resurrection body forever.
2. The etymology of the Greek words.
a) a(goij — translated “holy” or “saint.” It is used to describe one who is under a new contract forever, member of the royal family of God. All terms of saint and sanctification apply only to the royal family. All believers of the Church Age are royal family.
b) a(giothj — holiness, the state of being under contract under the new covenant to the Church. This is our status quo as members of the royal family. It is called holiness, set apart, under contract, consecrated to God forever.
c) a(giosunh — sanctification or the state of being under consecrate.
d) a(giasmoj — consecration, sanctification, the state of being holy, it emphasises the results of being holy or in the plan of God or under contract.
e) a(giazw, the verb — to set apart, to sanctify, to consecrate, to dedicate, but what it really means is to be under contract.
3. Phase one sanctification. This is a reference to the fact that God the Holy Spirit takes each one of us at the moment we believe in Jesus Christ and enters us into union with Christ. This is called the baptism of the Spirit, the means by which we come under the contract forever — 1 Corinthians 1:2,30; Hebrews 10:10,14.
4. Phase two sanctification. This is fulfilling the tactical objective of the contract in phase two. Under the contract God at the point of salvation has assigned us a certain amount of time. He has also broken this assignment down into allotments — time to study the Bible, social life, sex, business, and for everything. So the contract calls for the assignment of time and the breakdown of that assignment into allotments. Under phase two sanctification this time is enjoyed under the principle of the filling of the Spirit — 2 Corinthians 2:13, and the daily function of GAP — John 17:17. The royal family on earth is called the body of Christ, the royal family in resurrection is called the bride of Christ, and the body of Christ is therefore under the principle of phase two sanctification.
5. Phase three sanctification. This is ultimate in which the believer is in a resurrection body, minus the old sin nature, minus all of his human good. This is the royal family living with God forever — Romans 8:29; 1 Corinthians 1:8; Philippians 3:21; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 1 John 3:1,2
6. The agents in sanctification. God the Father is the author of the plan, therefore He is not an agent, but under Him there are three agents. The believer is not an agent. The agents do all of the work under the contract, and since under grace there is no place for human good, no place for works, there is no place for the believer to do anything. The believer is in the contract but he doesn’t work under the contract or you don’t produce the work. You produce divine good under a grace system.
a) The Son of God — Hebrews 10:10,14.
b) The Holy Spirit — Romans 15:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
c) The Word of God, Bible doctrine — John 17:17; Ephesians 5:26. The Word of God is the only source of divine revelation to the royal family.
This is only a tiny bit of Sanctification..........
Oblio said:/me wonders where the passages where Jesus rebukes those who worked on the Sabbath are ...
Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)
Hi cruztacaen, so was I (48 years). Then I woke up!cruztacean said:I was a Seventh-day Adventist for a number of years, and let me tell you, when I realized that 3,000 people had been baptized and added to the church on what now would be called a Sunday, I was so shocked I had to take to my bed! SDA's can write off Acts 20:7 as a Saturday night, not a Sunday morning, but it can't be said for Acts 2:41, because Peter's sermon indicates it is 9:00 AM.
The seventh-day Sabbath was a shadow of things to come, like other ceremonial ordinances. Jesus said, "I will give you rest." When He enters our hearts, He brings the fulfillment of the law with Him, and we carry the Sabbath around with us.
Yes, the Sabbath of Creation Week would be today's Saturday. But, if I am interpreting Scripture correctly, there is no longer one specific day of worship. Today's Sabbath is 24/7, in our hearts.
These verses may just as easily apply to us Sabbathkeepers. I for one am indeed "fully persuaded in my own mind."cruztacean said:I'm using KJV here, because most Christians recognize it, and some don't recognize other versions. The verses are isolated and badly out of context; I recommend further research than I can convey in one single post.
Colossians 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Romans 14
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
First, I am not a Seventh-day Adventist, but rather a Seventh Day Baptist.cruztacean said:Acts 2
41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart
Acts 2:41 is referring to the day of Pentecost, which this verse...
Leviticus 23
16Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
...shows to be on the first day of the week. I was a Seventh-day Adventist for a number of years, and let me tell you, when I realized that 3,000 people had been baptized and added to the church on what now would be called a Sunday, I was so shocked I had to take to my bed! SDA's can write off Acts 20:7 as a Saturday night, not a Sunday morning, but it can't be said for Acts 2:41, because Peter's sermon indicates it is 9:00 AM.
The seventh-day Sabbath was a shadow of things to come, like other ceremonial ordinances. Jesus said, "I will give you rest." When He enters our hearts, He brings the fulfillment of the law with Him, and we carry the Sabbath around with us.
Yes, the Sabbath of Creation Week would be today's Saturday. But, if I am interpreting Scripture correctly, there is no longer one specific day of worship. Today's Sabbath is 24/7, in our hearts.
cruztacean said:I'm using KJV here, because most Christians recognize it, and some don't recognize other versions. The verses are isolated and badly out of context; I recommend further research than I can convey in one single post.
Colossians 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Romans 14
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Acts 2
41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart
Acts 2:41 is referring to the day of Pentecost, which this verse...
Leviticus 23
16Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
...shows to be on the first day of the week. I was a Seventh-day Adventist for a number of years, and let me tell you, when I realized that 3,000 people had been baptized and added to the church on what now would be called a Sunday, I was so shocked I had to take to my bed! SDA's can write off Acts 20:7 as a Saturday night, not a Sunday morning, but it can't be said for Acts 2:41, because Peter's sermon indicates it is 9:00 AM.
The seventh-day Sabbath was a shadow of things to come, like other ceremonial ordinances. Jesus said, "I will give you rest." When He enters our hearts, He brings the fulfillment of the law with Him, and we carry the Sabbath around with us.
Yes, the Sabbath of Creation Week would be today's Saturday. But, if I am interpreting Scripture correctly, there is no longer one specific day of worship. Today's Sabbath is 24/7, in our hearts.
cruztacean said:I'm not going to get into a Scripture war. I stated things as my studies have shown them to be. Understand that NO PART of the Sabbath commandment has now been transferred to Sunday. I'm not saying it was. But what problem do you have with the Law being internalized now? I believe in keeping the Sabbath holy 24/7. After all, we don't obey the other commandments only one day a week, do we?
As I mentioned, I was a Seventh-day Adventist, and as such I've heard every Saturday argument there is. "We're saved, and you're not, because we go to church on the correct day." No one is going to indoctrinate me back into it.
Oblio said:And how do you know that He did not ?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?