Which Commandments?

[Paulomycin]

How do you know that this is what Genesis means when it speaks of coveting.

1. Because doubt in-general isn't a necessity without a necessarily specific doubt. Doubt is a means, and not the ends in and of itself.

2. Because context is necessary. For example, Genesis 3:6 is the tree that God did not grant to Adam & Eve, which God kept for Himself instead. So in that verse Eve did sinfully covet in that sense.

 

[Paulomycin]

Excuse me, but I did not run from anything. The thread we were involved in was closed by the staff. I cannot respond to that thread.

So you re-started it.

It wasn't necessary to re-start, unless you felt like taking a poll. Or, unless you felt some gut instinct that you could still get away with a good "gotcha" argument if you pushed it far enough.

 

[doubtingmerle]

So you re-started it.

It wasn't necessary to re-start, unless you felt like taking a poll. Or, unless you felt some gut instinct that you could still get away with a good "gotcha" argument if you pushed it far enough.

We were engaged in a good discussion of what commandments we need to follow to get to heaven. You wrote a lengthy response, but then the thread was shut down. Since the thread is shut down, I am not allowed to respond to you there.

If you would like to join this discussion, join in. If not intereted, then don't join in.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Was Jesus addressing the man's question about what he needed to do to have eternal life?

Or was Jesus ignoring the question, and just trying to make a point about the state of the man's heart?

Because it sure looks to me like an answer to the man's question.

It was an answer that Jesus knew would be answered in the negative... And this was to make a point - we can't save ourselves, and God requires everything of us.

True story that you may think stupid, but it's true.

I was a cigarette smoker before i was saved..

Now in my life I never put a lot of stock in material things like my parents did, I never really had anything, to my thinking, that I wouldn't share with others. Clothes, food, anything I had I was always happy to give to someone in need.

Well, one time I was in some financial distress and hadn't been able to afford cigarettes for a couple weeks, and wow did I want a cigarette bad... I think I would've given my right arm for one... lol.

At any rate a friend stopped by: I knew what her finances were and saw she only had two cigarettes left in her pack. So I wasn't going to ask her for one. But I must have been looking at the cigarette she was smoking with some longing, and she offered me her last cigarette.

Now I don't know if you ever smoked, but the last cigarette someone has, especially when they don't know where their next pack is coming from, is a major deal. For real, it's major.

It's also something I never in a million years would have given to someone, friend or not. I told her no and we talked about it for a minute, she insisted it was okay and I took the offer.

By the way, I cried... because this was a kindness that was beyond me. It was literally something I wouldn't do, and couldn't have given. And the fact she did, brought me to tears.

I understood in that moment this Bible story. Rich or poor most of us have something we can't do, there is always something beyond us that we can't part with.

After I was saved God required it from me, and I stopped smoking cigarettes... why? Because with God all things are possible.. even those things that are impossible with us.

God requires everything, and he makes the impossible, possible.

And that is the moral here... the majority of people, no matter who we are, have something that stands between us and those words "Come and follow Me"... and that something requires God himself to change in us, because we can't do it without His saving Grace.

 

[doubtingmerle]

It was an answer that Jesus knew would be answered in the negative... And this was to make a point - we can't save ourselves, and God requires everything of us.

True story that you may think stupid, but it's true.

I was a cigarette smoker before i was saved..

Now in my life I never put a lot of stock in material things like my parents did, I never really had anything, to my thinking, that I wouldn't share with others. Clothes, food, anything I had I was always happy to give to someone in need.

Well, one time I was in some financial distress and hadn't been able to afford cigarettes for a couple weeks, and wow did I want a cigarette bad... I think I would've given my right arm for one... lol.

At any rate a friend stopped by: I knew what her finances were and saw she only had two cigarettes left in her pack. So I wasn't going to ask her for one. But I must have been looking at the cigarette she was smoking with some longing, and she offered me her last cigarette.

Now I don't know if you ever smoked, but the last cigarette someone has, especially when they don't know where their next pack is coming from, is a major deal. For real, it's major.

It's also something I never in a million years would have given to someone, friend or not. I told her no and we talked about it for a minute, she insisted it was okay and I took the offer.

By the way, I cried... because this was a kindness that was beyond me. It was literally something I wouldn't do, and couldn't have given. And the fact she did, brought me to tears.

I understood in that moment this Bible story. Rich or poor most of us have something we can't do, there is always something beyond us that we can't part with.

After I was saved God required it from me, and I stopped smoking cigarettes... why? Because with God all things are possible.. even those things that are impossible with us.

God requires everything, and he makes the impossible, possible.

And that is the moral here... the majority of people, no matter who we are, have something that stands between us and those words "Come and follow Me"... and that something requires God himself to change in us, because we can't do it without His saving Grace.

Got it. Doing the right thing is hard sometimes. We can all use some help.

I was more interested in hearing which commandments we need to keep in order to get to heaven, rather than discussing sources of help.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Got it. Doing the right thing is hard sometimes. We can all use some help.

I was more interested in hearing which commandments we need to keep in order to get to heaven, rather than discussing sources of help.

There's only 1... Romans 10:9 believe in your heart that our Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, was raised from the dead, and confess with your mouth that He is Lord and you will be saved from the wrath of God and enter into eternal life.

Anything else we do is out of love and obedience as children of God - but only Christ's work saves us...

 

[doubtingmerle]

There's only 1... Romans 10:9 believe in your heart that our Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, was raised from the dead, and confess with your mouth that He is Lord and you will be saved from the wrath of God and enter into eternal life.

Anything else we do is out of love and obedience as children of God - but only Christ's work saves us...

Ah so Jesus was mistaken when he said there are 7 commandments you need to follow, including not killing and stealing? Killing and stealing won't keep you out of heaven, as long as you confess and believe?

The problem with commanding us to believe is that we cannot force ourselves to believe if we don't think it is true. And I don't think the resurrection happened, so there is no way I could meet that requirement, huh?

 

[doubtingmerle]

James puts it plainly. Coveting what isn't yours can lead to murder.

James 1:14-16
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

A, wanting something really badly can lead to murder. Yes, I agree.

But how can you command somebody not to want something really badly? Wouldn't it be better to tell people to recognize their feelings and then learn to channel their feelings in good ways? Telling them not to feel that way seems like bad advice.

 

[Paulomycin]

Ah so Jesus was mistaken when he said there are 7 commandments you need to follow, including not killing and stealing? Killing and stealing won't keep you out of heaven, as long as you confess and believe?

The problem with commanding us to believe is that we cannot force ourselves to believe if we don't think it is true. And I don't think the resurrection happened, so there is no way I could meet that requirement, huh?

You're still running on the same assumed presupposition that Jesus was claiming there were only 7 commandments. He never said this.

 

[Paulomycin]

A, wanting something really badly can lead to murder. Yes, I agree.

But how can you command somebody not to want something really badly? Wouldn't it be better to tell people to recognize their feelings and then learn to channel their feelings in good ways? Telling them not to feel that way seems like bad advice.

Then you clearly admit that we are fundamentally incapable as human beings to will ourselves outside of our feelings and choose to not want something really badly.

That's the beginning of the gospel: The realization that we will always fail to overcome these feelings, and we need a Redeemer to keep the entire law perfectly on our behalf.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The problem with commanding us to believe is that we cannot force ourselves to believe if we don't think it is true. And I don't think the resurrection happened, so there is no way I could meet that requirement, huh?

That's what makes it good huh? See the heart is what never lies...

One can follow rules in order to hedge ones bets but you can't believe if it's not in you... it's always been a heart thing, and no one can convince themselves otherwise now.

What you could do, is explore why you don't believe atm, and explore that aspect of faith...

There was a time I didn't believe also, but that changed.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A, wanting something really badly can lead to murder. Yes, I agree.

But how can you command somebody not to want something really badly? Wouldn't it be better to tell people to recognize their feelings and then learn to channel their feelings in good ways? Telling them not to feel that way seems like bad advice.

No matter how the commandment is parsed we have (or should have) control over our desires. Anyway the Christian should be way past that. Jesus brought a 'new' command, that we love one another, which is antithetical to the OT commandments.

 

[doubtingmerle]

You're still running on the same assumed presupposition that Jesus was claiming there were only 7 commandments. He never said this.

When asked "which" he listed 7.

Are there more? Which commandments does one need to inherit eternal life?

 

[doubtingmerle]

What you could do, is explore why you don't believe atm, and explore that aspect of faith...

I don't believe in the resurrection because I find no credible witnesses to the resurrection. See Are There Credible Witnesses to the Resurrection, Part II | Christian Forums .

 

[doubtingmerle]

Jesus brought a 'new' command, that we love one another, which is antithetical to the OT commandments.

It really wasn't new. The Old Testament taught to love your neighbor as yourself, and other philosophers were certainly teaching love.

 

[doubtingmerle]

That's the beginning of the gospel: The realization that we will always fail to overcome these feelings, and we need a Redeemer to keep the entire law perfectly on our behalf.

I can indeed control what I do about my feelings. But I can't change the fact that I have certain feelings.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't believe in the resurrection because I find no credible witnesses to the resurrection. See Are There Credible Witnesses to the Resurrection, Part II | Christian Forums .

There are plenty of credible witnesses...

But herein lies the issue, you seem to be looking for a workaround since you don't believe in order to hedge your bets and get into heaven anyway if you happen to be wrong.

The answer to that is there are no workarounds....

However, if you truly seek God then it's good to pray that God opens your heart and mind to His truth, while you seek the answers you need.

 

[Paulomycin]

When asked "which" he listed 7.

He didn't actually say there were only 7.

Are there more? Which commandments does one need to inherit eternal life?

By now it's more than obvious that you've never read the Old Testament.

 

[Paulomycin]

I can indeed control what I do about my feelings. But I can't change the fact that I have certain feelings.

feelings = intent

 

[doubtingmerle]

He didn't actually say there were only 7.

When asked which commandments were needed for eternal life, he listed 7.

You think there are more than 7? Ok, how many commandments does one need to keep to get to heaven? Where can I find the full list?

By now it's more than obvious that you've never read the Old Testament.

Oh, but I have--6 times. Every chapter, every verse, every line.

Have you read the entire Old Testament?