Which Commandments?

[klutedavid]

Sorry, I think I had you confused with somebody else. Ok so this is your final answer:

1) Believe in the name of the Son.
2) Love one another.​

This differs from the answer Jesus gave in Matthew 19.

I think you did confuse me with someone else. That is not my answer to your question, that is the apostle John's answer to your question.

Jesus was simply answering the question that the rich young ruler had asked.

 

[Lukaris]

I see these same circular questions over & over again. There are Christians who believe that as Christians we are saved by grace and we are called to follow Christ’s commandments & try to do good to others. Those of us who believe this that it is possible for a non Christian who by their conscience lives the way God wants us to & will be saved as God sees fit ( Romans 2) but we cannot recklessly say who is good or bad ( John 5:22-30).

This is a simple religious faith that many of us believe is fair & just. This is a matter of trust that becomes truth to those who accept it & the savior who determines it ( John 14:6) but not everyone does.

Guess I let myself get sucked back into the shell game.

 

[doubtingmerle]

dcalling, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

So the only requirement is Believe in God, it is not just know God as devil know God as well, it means trust/believe God above everything else, and accept God's salvation that Jesus died on cross for you.

Got it.

So here is your new list:

1) Believe in God,(it means trust/believe God above everything else, and accept God's salvation that Jesus died on cross for you.)
​

As we discussed, and you seem to agree, your list differs with the list Jesus gave in Matthew 19. Your explanation, that Jesus deliberately gave him a plan that does not work, seems inadequate.

And other Christians think Jesus told the truth in Matthew 19. They think Jesus really told this man what he needed to do to go to heaven. They do not think that love your neighbor is just an impossible plan A, while Jesus was holding a better plan B (faith alone) up his sleeve.

And please don't respond by saying he needed to do plan A if he didn't do plan B. That, my friend, is not the same thing as needing to do plan A.

EDIT: Added on, to clarify, as you seems to be real this time, all other things (i.e. love your neighbor, no covet, no muder etc) comes as by product of this, as you believe in God, God will change you, and you will became better and better.

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Ok, you just changed your list. Your list now looks like:

1) Believe in God,(it means trust/believe God above everything else, and accept God's salvation that Jesus died on cross for you.)
2) Don't covet (as caused by belief)
3) Don't murder (as caused by beleif)
4) etc.
​

Is this your (sigh) final answer?

​

Not the other way around, where in most other religions/human thinking, that the good things you do make you better.

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Actually, I find that doing good is one of the best ways to develop the habits of being good. That is what we teach our children. Practice saying thank you, practice sharing, practice being kind, and soon it becomes a habit.

How is it that believing makes a person good?

 

[doubtingmerle]

it is possible for a non Christian who by their conscience lives the way God wants us to & will be saved as God sees fit

The Beatles will now lead us in our closing hymn.

The Beatles - All You Need Is Love (Official Music Video) - Bing video

 

[Lukaris]

The Beatles will now lead us in our closing hymn.

The Beatles - All You Need Is Love (Official Music Video) - Bing video

Perhaps but I always seem to hear Le Marseillaise when I hear that Beatles song & get confused.


la marseillaise - Google Search

I’ll go with the Gospel.

John 3:16-21, John 5:22-30

 

[doubtingmerle]

Perhaps but I always seem to hear Le Marseillaise when I hear that Beatles song & get confused.


la marseillaise - Google Search

There are so few notes, and so few chords, and yet there are so many songs. I wonder sometimes how those few notes can make so many songs without there being a lot of repetition.

I’ll go with the Gospel.

There are folks here that say that nobody can go to heaven just by following the advice of Jesus in Matthew 19:16-21, but instead all we need to do is believe. Are you saying those folks don't go with the gospel?

 

[dcalling]

dcalling, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.



Got it.

So here is your new list:

1) Believe in God,(it means trust/believe God above everything else, and accept God's salvation that Jesus died on cross for you.)
​

As we discussed, and you seem to agree, your list differs with the list Jesus gave in Matthew 19. Your explanation, that Jesus deliberately gave him a plan that does not work, seems inadequate.

And other Christians think Jesus told the truth in Matthew 19. They think Jesus really told this man what he needed to do to go to heaven. They do not think that love your neighbor is just an impossible plan A, while Jesus was holding a better plan B (faith alone) up his sleeve.

And please don't respond by saying he needed to do plan A if he didn't do plan B. That, my friend, is not the same thing as needing to do plan A.


Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Ok, you just changed your list. Your list now looks like:

1) Believe in God,(it means trust/believe God above everything else, and accept God's salvation that Jesus died on cross for you.)
2) Don't covet (as caused by belief)
3) Don't murder (as caused by beleif)
4) etc.
​

Is this your (sigh) final answer?

​

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Actually, I find that doing good is one of the best ways to develop the habits of being good. That is what we teach our children. Practice saying thank you, practice sharing, practice being kind, and soon it becomes a habit.

How is it that believing makes a person good?

I don't know why you can't see this. As I told you again and again...... Believe in God is the only requirement. All others come naturally (with the help of God) as a result, and not as a cause.

Doing good to try to be good, you are still the same old person. If you are good youself, you will be doing good naturally.

 

[dcalling]

Sounds like you are saying the way to salvation is as follows:

"37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself." (i.e.):

You must Worship the correct and only God; and if you do so earnestly, you will do more and more 'good' as a direct result? Is this your final answer?

If so, I have a followup Q:

If Stalin laid forth genuine repent to Christ, just before his death, and a devout Hindu, who never murdered, raped, trespassed, and respected his/her parents, dies believing the Hindu god Brahman; Stalin will be in eternal bliss and the Hindu will be in eternal burning?

Nope, you keep rolling back to "Do things" and not "believe in God". as I told you again and again and you just can't get it.

for your follow up question. for Stalin, yes. and for the Hindu, you should note that not all levels of hell are the same. Revelation 20:11–15, the people are judged “according to what they had done as recorded in the books". and Romans 2, 14-25 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

 

[cvanwey]

Nope, you keep rolling back to "Do things" and not "believe in God". as I told you again and again and you just can't get it.

Believing in Jesus and loving others as yourself is 'doing things'. Don't you get it This is what Jesus tells you to "do".

for your follow up question. for Stalin, yes.

Kool. So the only 'moral', which actually matters, is belief and repent in/to the right God. Salvation is achieved by belief/repent alone. Got it. Can you back this up?

and for the Hindu, you should note that not all levels of hell are the same. Revelation 20:11–15, the people are judged “according to what they had done as recorded in the books". and Romans 2, 14-25 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

I would imagine the lowest level of "Heaven" would be far more pleasant than the best level of "hell", right?

Thus, in accordance with "Christian justice", Stalin could theoretically be in heaven, and the one whom thought another God existed, (while loving others), rots in hell.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

I don't know why you can't see this. As I told you again and again...... Believe in God is the only requirement.

Right. But again and again you have also added a lot of other requirements, such as do not murder.

Is not murdering a requirement or isn't it? You keep changing your answer.

All others come naturally (with the help of God) as a result, and not as a cause.

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am not asking you if it comes naturally. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Do you or do you not need to do good to go to heaven?

Doing good to try to be good, you are still the same old person. If you are good youself, you will be doing good naturally.

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am not asking if it comes naturally. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Do you or do you not need to do good? Sometimes you say yes, sometimes you say no.

 

[Lukaris]

Are most of the non believers here former “believers”?

 

[cvanwey]

Are most of the non believers here former “believers”?

I'll answer preemptively. I would say many here were... Why do you ask?

 

[dcalling]

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.


Right. But again and again you have also added a lot of other requirements, such as do not murder.

Is not murdering a requirement or isn't it? You keep changing your answer.

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am not asking you if it comes naturally. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Do you or do you not need to do good to go to heaven?

Again, I am not asking you what causes you to do good. I am not asking if it comes naturally. I am asking you what you need to do to go to heaven. Please let me know how many times you want me to repeat this.

Do you or do you not need to do good? Sometimes you say yes, sometimes you say no.

Let me repeat myself the (n)th time... All you need to do to go to heaven is believe in God (must be real, as people could claim they belive in God but does not, or devil, who know the existence of God but work against God).

No other action is required, although they will come because of you believe in God (unless you die right after you truly believe in God), but those are not required. You can be a very mean person, got saved by God and died right after that without doing any thing, you will still go to heaven.

 

[dcalling]

Believing in Jesus and loving others as yourself is 'doing things'. Don't you get it This is what Jesus tells you to "do".



Kool. So the only 'moral', which actually matters, is belief and repent in/to the right God. Salvation is achieved by belief/repent alone. Got it. Can you back this up?

It is backed up by the Bible. I only need to let you know it, if you accept it is not up to me.

I would imagine the lowest level of "Heaven" would be far more pleasant than the best level of "hell", right?

Thus, in accordance with "Christian justice", Stalin could theoretically be in heaven, and the one whom thought another God existed, (while loving others), rots in hell.

A changed Stalin is no longer Stalin. Long time ago I learned from eastern philosophy you can drop your butcher knife and became a Buddha on the spot, this is very similar to that, the moment you archive enlightenment you became someone different, the difference here is the one that helped you archive enlightenment is God and not yourself.

 

[Lukaris]

I'll answer preemptively. I would say many here were... Why do you ask?

I thought I recall some people saying as such. I just find something curious about it but cannot explain.

 

[cvanwey]

It is backed up by the Bible. I only need to let you know it, if you accept it is not up to me.

Where? Give me [the Verse(s)] which sums up how one gets to Heaven? And once you do so, why I can ignore the other Verse(s), which state alternative ways to salvation?

A changed Stalin is no longer Stalin.

A "changed" Stalin would still remain a sinner. Right?

 

[doubtingmerle]

No other action is required

"No other action is required" means that refraining from murder sprees for the rest of your life is not required.

"No other action is required" means that refraining from rape, pillaging and plundering for the rest of your life is not required.

"No other action is required" means that obeying the commandments, following Jesus, loving others, or treating others with basic decency is not required.

That is what the words, "no other action is required" mean.

Is this you final answer? "No other action is required"?

 

[dcalling]

"No other action is required" means that refraining from murder sprees for the rest of your life is not required.

"No other action is required" means that refraining from rape, pillaging and plundering for the rest of your life is not required.

"No other action is required" means that obeying the commandments, following Jesus, loving others, or treating others with basic decency is not required.

That is what the words, "no other action is required" mean.

Is this you final answer? "No other action is required"?

You are just trying to tweaking my word now. I have clearly said the answer is "truly Believing in God"

 

[dcalling]

Where? Give me [the Verse(s)] which sums up how one gets to Heaven? And once you do so, why I can ignore the other Verse(s), which state alternative ways to salvation?

just a few:
Acts 16:31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8)

A "changed" Stalin would still remain a sinner. Right?

correct. But his sins God has paid for with blood of Jesus.

 

[doubtingmerle]

You are just trying to tweaking my word now. I have clearly said the answer is "truly Believing in God"

No, sir, I am not tweaking your words. All I quoted back was , "No other action is required."

If you think that "truly believing in God" differs from "believing in God", how do they differ?