I went to a Baptist church when young and they were OSAS. I believe we are saved by faith now and works are part of an active faith, but I am not OSAS. I was wondering who knows which denominations believe that among the traditional denominations or if depends on the particular church. Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran?
which churches teach OSAS and which don't
- Thread starter SuperBunny
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I didn't know that. Thank you very much!
Do you know which believe in the spiritual sign gifts as opposed to just normal giftings that are more like pentocostal gifts but only they are not showing it outwardly in the services? I know that Methodist tolerates other views in the church if they aren't too radical and I think that believing quietly in the sign gifts of prophecy tongues wouldn't cause a problem, but I know that Baptists are really against it. Though I think Methodist would tolerate one talking quietly about such experience and not being disruptive or trying to get others to believe, I don't know about Lutheran or Prebysterian? Do you think I am wrong about the Methodists though? Help.
Do you know which believe in the spiritual sign gifts as opposed to just normal giftings that are more like pentocostal gifts but only they are not showing it outwardly in the services? I know that Methodist tolerates other views in the church if they aren't too radical and I think that believing quietly in the sign gifts of prophecy tongues wouldn't cause a problem, but I know that Baptists are really against it. Though I think Methodist would tolerate one talking quietly about such experience and not being disruptive or trying to get others to believe, I don't know about Lutheran or Prebysterian? Do you think I am wrong about the Methodists though? Help.
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The church of Christ doesn't either. See, read it straight from our official literature: (Heb 10:26) "For if we willfully persist in sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."
Back to me: Those who commit sin after baptism (the point of the initial cleansing by Christ's blood) must repent and confess theirs sins to be forgiven and cleansed as John says in 1 John 1:7. Those who persist in sin, refusing to repent and confess will go to hell, even though they were Christians.
Back to me: Those who commit sin after baptism (the point of the initial cleansing by Christ's blood) must repent and confess theirs sins to be forgiven and cleansed as John says in 1 John 1:7. Those who persist in sin, refusing to repent and confess will go to hell, even though they were Christians.
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I say this with all due respect, (and without condoning willfully sinning) but the passage from Hebrews that you quoted has to do with the ceasing of ritual blood sacrifices done by the high priest, after Jesus was the 'final' sacrifice. This is not a statement being made to Christians who continue to "willfully sin"christian-only said:
~peace~
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Reading the next 2 verses clears up this misunderstanding. But, aside from all the contextual considerations, here on Hebrews 10, we find in 1 John 1:7-9, that John says positively what Hebrews here says negatively. John says that those Christians who walk in the light, that is repent and confess their sins, will have the cleansing of Christ's sacrifice. Obviously the word "if" in John's statement means that the opposite is true of those Christians who are not walking in the light, that is, not repenting and confessing their sins. What is the opposite? That they will not have the cleansing of Christ's sacrifice. And we know that John is speaking exclusively of Christians, since his letter is to the churches and he says "we." Now, with that in mind let us look at the next 2 verses in Hebrews 10:
(Heb 10:28-29) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: {29} Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Also, Heb 10:39 clears this up contextually, saying "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."
He is refering in verse 26 to those who had received Christ's sacrifice but later rejected it, not in word, but in action, that is they rejected it by refusing to live in the manner that one who accepts it must live in. Now, he compares these who sin against Christ's sacrifice to those who sinned against sacrifices under Moses' Law, saying they are worthy of worse punishment, since they have stomped all over Christ, &c. Those who accept the sacrifice of Christ and become Christians but then persist in wilfull sin have drawn back to perdition, as the apostle terms it in vs 39, and have become essentially unbelievers. Yes, they believe in Jesus, but they don't believe Jesus. They are like Moses in his striking the rock when God said to speak to it, to which God replied "Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them." (Num 20:12) And their punishment is the same as that of Moses - they will not enter the promised land.
(Heb 10:28-29) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: {29} Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Also, Heb 10:39 clears this up contextually, saying "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."
He is refering in verse 26 to those who had received Christ's sacrifice but later rejected it, not in word, but in action, that is they rejected it by refusing to live in the manner that one who accepts it must live in. Now, he compares these who sin against Christ's sacrifice to those who sinned against sacrifices under Moses' Law, saying they are worthy of worse punishment, since they have stomped all over Christ, &c. Those who accept the sacrifice of Christ and become Christians but then persist in wilfull sin have drawn back to perdition, as the apostle terms it in vs 39, and have become essentially unbelievers. Yes, they believe in Jesus, but they don't believe Jesus. They are like Moses in his striking the rock when God said to speak to it, to which God replied "Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them." (Num 20:12) And their punishment is the same as that of Moses - they will not enter the promised land.
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