Which "Christians" will not be saved?

[FreeGrace2]

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes, it did.

Man created a misrepresentation of the Gospel of the Kingdom by using only part of it and ignoring the rest. What would you expect from a church/religion that rejoined the word of man to become a worldly power of it's own based on the foundations of all human institutions rather than the kingdom of God.

If you're referring to the Catholic church, be my guest. My only focus is on what the Bible says. So all your comments about "man-made misrepresentations" don't concern me.

 

[JLB777]

I heartily invite you to prove your claim here; that I have ever tried to pit Scripture against Scripture.

otoh, I've PROVED many times that you do that all the time.

Example: Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, in John 10:28.

You repeatedly teach that recipients of eternal life can perish.


You've never shown any verse that says that a believer can be "removed from Christ". In fact, not even close.


Of course I don't have such a verse, because NO ONE who has been sealed with the Spirit can be removed from Christ.

And no unbeliever has eternal life.


For fellowship, of course. But you've rejected that doctrine as well.


Discarded from service, just as a non fruit bearing branch is by a farmer. But you don't seem to understand metaphors.


Metaphors are certainly not clear to you.


Through faith in Christ. And all sealed believers (that's all of them) shall never perish. Jesus said so.


Every human being is born separated from Christ, and faces eternal death. Of course.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Sadly, you misunderstand the difference between being "in Christ" and "abiding in Christ". But it's been explained quite enough. So you don't have any excuse.


I've never taught such nonsense. Of course they do if they want to be blessed during their time on earth, and avoid His divine discipline, and be rewarded in eternity.

But your question reveals that either you are unable to comprehend my clear posts, or you deceptively are trying to smear my views and posts.

It's either ignorance or deception. Which is it?[/QUOTE]


It’s very simple.

In Christ = Eternal life

Removed from Christ = Cast this not the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.


Here is how the scripture instructs us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[JLB777]

FreeGrace2 - your argument is not confusing, nor is the argument of JLB. It is the very situation which is confusing. Your argument is very simplistic, you see God as a giant vending machine. Put in some belief and out will pop salvation. I hope you are correct. I hope Heaven will have a far greater population than I expect and that I will be one of the beneficiaries to see it. But that is just me. God is under no obligation to do anything to please me. It is my obligation to try and please God.

Recently there have been a couple of famous Christian pop singers who have renounced their faith. I expect you have seen the news stories. So if they die today will they enter heaven? What if they had died a week BEFORE they publicly renounced their faith. Would they have entered heaven at that point? They said they believed. They wrote and sang songs about their belief.

I wish there was one simple formula that will tell us exactly how to be saved. But I find that in reading the scriptures and not just a few verses, that belief is only one of God's expectations of us.

John 15:14 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jesus’ speaking)

Galatians 5:13-14 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning so that you should walk in it.

It’s very simple.

In Christ = Eternal life

Removed from Christ = Cast this not the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.


Here is how the scripture instructs us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB

 

[timothyu]

If you're referring to the Catholic church, be my guest. My only focus is on what the Bible says. So all your comments about "man-made misrepresentations" don't concern me.

Nope, referring to Christianity itself. And scripture makes it clear the counter-culture Jesus represented is rarely practiced in the world, whether Christian or not. The offer of an afterlife doesn't seem to be enough to persuade these folks into change.

 

[BCsenior]

Rebellious anyone is he who refuses to obey what God has commanded him to do!

As it has been since the beginning.
The opposite of rebellious is repentant. Few seek the path.

You wouldn't be talking about the narrow door/path, would you?

I'm going to post a thread on REPENTANCE ... hope you enjoy it.

 

[timothyu]

You wouldn't be talking about the narrow door/path, would you?

Yes the one people too full of themselves can't get through

 

[BCsenior]

Yes the one people too full of themselves can't get through

To be fair ... some are simply deceived, brainwashed, etc. by family, church, etc.
But, some are too proud, stubborn, etc. to admit they have been wrong.
Some just do not want to stop being slaves of sin,
and hope they will somehow make it into heaven
(whether they believe in OSAS, or not).

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

the ones that don't love the LORD and follow His commandments and endure to the end.

 

[BCsenior]

the ones that don't love the LORD and follow His commandments and endure to the end.

Yes, thank you ... that's just about all of it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Removed from Christ = Cast this not the fire and burned.

Do you understand what "guaranteed an inheritance for the day of redemption" means?

Do you understand to whom this guarantee is addressed to?

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.

Do you believe that Jesus was teaching believers how to stay saved?

Here is how the scripture instructs us to remain in Christ.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

I agree with this, even though totally disagreeing with how you understand this verse.

 

[bcbsr]

The only "doctrine" actually "cursed" by God is that of adding the keeping of the law to simple faith in the work of Christ to try to be justified before Him. I believe that includes, particularly for gentiles who have never had the written law, those who try to lead a good life where their conscience is free of guilt (as important as that is) in order to be found justified at the final judgement.

"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Galatians 3:10

While I would argue there other doctrines as well that are essential for salvation, such as reckoning Jesus as the LORD and such, I agree with you. In Paul's time it was the Circumcision group which were "Christians" in the Jerusalem church who believed one had to be circumcised and follow the law of Moses to be saved, yet Paul says of them, "This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves." Gal 2:4 These days, due to the "a little leaven leavens the whole lump" effect, the Christian community is filled with Neo-Circumcision Christians, like those dominating these forums, who reject, despise and ridicule the gospel of grace in favor of their salvation by works soteriology.

 

[BCsenior]

Do you understand what "guaranteed an inheritance for the day of redemption" means?
Do you understand to whom this guarantee is addressed to?

I do!
This guarantee is addressed to "THE FAITHFUL" (see Ephesians 1:1).
How many here understand what being a "faithful" Christian means?

 

[timothyu]

How many here understand what being a "faithful" Christian

a Messiahian that practices Messiahanity?

 

[BCsenior]

How many here understand what being a "faithful" Christian means?

a Messiahian that practices Messiahanity?

Most would say ... It means to follow Jesus!
And Jesus commands a whole lot of unsavory (for most) things, such as:
foist consider the COST of following Him, pick up your cross, die to self, etc.

 

[timothyu]

Most would say ... It means to follow Jesus!

That would mean putting the Father's will ahead of our own as He did would it not?
To walk in the ways of the Kingdom of God rather than the ways of man as He did would it not?
To decline the offers of power from the Adversary as he did would it not? To put trust in the word of God rather than the word of man, would it not? To leave man to their own ways and pursue another way without rebellion as He did, would it not? To put forth a gospel which condemns the leadership of this word as backwards as He did, would it not? To act as a servants to each other and the Father as He did, would it not? ETC,, would it not?

 

[BCsenior]

That would mean putting the Father's will ahead of our own as He did would it not?
To walk in the ways of the Kingdom of God rather than the ways of man as He did would it not?
To decline the offers of power from the Adversary as he did would it not? To put trust in the word of God rather than the word of man, would it not? To leave man to their own ways and pursue another way without rebellion as He did, would it not? To put forth a gospel which condemns the leadership of this word as backwards as He did, would it not? To act as a servants to each other and the Father as He did, would it not? ETC,, would it not?

WOW! ... Does all of that extra stuff cost extra?
I mean, a pizza with da works costs more than just tomato and cheese.

 

[timothyu]

WOW! ... Does all of that extra stuff cost extra?

No, it's a combo for regular price... free when loving all neighbours as self.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked:
"Do you understand what "guaranteed an inheritance for the day of redemption" means?
Do you understand to whom this guarantee is addressed to?"

I do!
This guarantee is addressed to "THE FAITHFUL" (see Ephesians 1:1).
How many here understand what being a "faithful" Christian means?

Well, let's review exactly what Paul did say.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

If your theory were correct, please explain how this GUARANTEE could be made on those "WHEN" the believed. One's faithfulness is only seen AFTER time passes. Certainly NOT when one believe.

Using 'the faithful' in v.1 as an excuse for limiting the whole letter is silly. In fact, we find the SAME MESSAGE in ALL of Paul's epistles. And this is how he addresses some of his epistles:

1 Cor 1
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

2 Cor 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia:

Gal 1
1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—
2 and all the brothers and sisters with me, To the churches in Galatia:

Col 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
2 To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.

"holy people" is because of imputed righteousness, not their own righteousnesses.

1 Thess 1:1 - Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.

2 Thess 1:1 - 1 Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

The GUARANTEE in Eph 1:13,14 is for those who BELIEVED.

You're just looking for excuses to change the clear meaning of the GUARANTEE.

 

[timothyu]

The GUARANTEE in Eph 1:13,14 is for those who BELIEVED.

Believed in the Gospel of the Kingdom? That is after all what Jesus commanded His followers (and us) to go out and spread.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"The GUARANTEE in Eph 1:13,14 is for those who BELIEVED."

Believed in the Gospel of the Kingdom? That is after all what Jesus commanded His followers (and us) to go out and spread.

Yep.