• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Which "Christians" will not be saved?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by His student, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

    +545
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Most of us who post here in this forum are aware by now that there are tremendously diverse ideas of what it takes to make it to Heaven and escape Hell.

    We know from the words of the Lord, if nowhere else in the scriptures, that there are a great many who consider themselves saved and even call Jesus their Lord who will be in for a rather rude awakening when they meet Him face to face.

    I sincerely hope that the gospel net is so large that anyone who even names the name of Christ in any way will be saved. I just don't see that as being the case from the scriptures.

    I suppose most Christians will agree about the out and out cults likely being lost _ with the exception of those who are in those cults of course.

    But what about the ones in the general population of Christendom?

    Being as careful as we possibly can to not say that any particular group as a whole is not saved (that's against the forum rules) - and understanding that obviously none of us here will be the final judge of these things - what is your general opinion as to where the line is when it comes to this rather upsetting truth about there not being salvation for all who name the name of Christ?

    I.e. - in your opinion - what particular doctrine or lack of doctrine would likely form that God given line of division?
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

    +1,174
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  3. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +15,975
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I don't think it's primarily a matter of doctrines. That makes it sound like whether or not a person gets a high enough score on a final exam.

    Ultimately - will we be like Christ, or not? Have we followed Him and cooperated with the grace of God so that we reach the point where we are able to repent, to accept His mercy, and are we - like God - love?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  4. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,521
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    They say we will have three surprises in Heaven. The people that are not there that we were sure would be there. The people that are there that we were sure were not going to heaven and we will be most surprised that we made it to heaven.

    "8 And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9 This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold.They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’” Zech 13:9

    This scripture is clearly about Israel under the old covenant. Still I believe this applies to us today and one third of all people, tribe, tongues and nations will be saved. Jesus talks about Few will be saved and Many will perish. In the Greek Few means less then the majority and this could mean 1/3. Even though we know a remnant is 10%. When God repopulates the earth 90% is destroyed and 10% remains. So it could be that only 10% will make it through the tribulation to repopulate the earth.

    The passage you are talking about clearly has to do with lawlessness. There are a lot of people in the church today that believe we are not under the law and so we can do whatever we want to do and still be saved. Jesus makes it clear that lawless people will not enter into the kingdom.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,810
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I really don't think that anyone here can honestly answer your question without risking administrative actions from the moderators. The only thing I will say is ask anyone what it means to be a "Christian" and depending on their answer you can have a good idea who is and isn't saved. Read Galatians 5.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. Alien Lotus

    Alien Lotus Member

    199
    +194
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    God only knows.
     
  7. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +2,565
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Jesus gave us the Gospel of the Kingdom. Christianity for the most part ignores it.
     
  8. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

    +8,883
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I really don't think it would be too helpful to try to shove entire churches or denominations into the "not a Christian / damned" pile.

    Catholics, the Orthodox, and Protestants would affirm the Apostle's Creed, at least point by point if not as a Creed.
     
  9. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +2,285
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    Those born again walk according to the "Law of the Spirit." not the Law of Moses.
     
  10. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,810
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Agreed. After all, according to the ChristianForums defines Christianity with the Apostles Creed.
     
  11. PizzaAddict

    PizzaAddict Member

    117
    +44
    Poland
    Non-Denom
    Private
    All Christians are saved , Christians is short of Brother in Christ meaning saved person who has Christ as their sacrificial lamb for sin .

    There are many people who think that they are "Christians" but they are not. They don't know themselves why they are Christians or what the gospel is , they were just raised in family who went to Church and therefore call themselves "Christians" just like people who went to Temples call themselves Buddhists . Both fake Christian and Buddhist would share something in common and that's ignorance which is major thing that people love to be - ignorant . Both fake Christian and that Buddhist probably didn't reak their books/sciptures and didn't bother to deeply investigate what is this all about so they just happen to call themselved such titles because they were born in area where such things are .

    1. I sincerely hope that the gospel net is so large that anyone who even names the name of Christ in any way will be saved.

    That is not true , demons can't be saved and they know who Jesus is and spoke his name, this does not work this way just as casting out devils in Jesus name does not make you his disciple you simply using his divine power of his name for a purpose - Matthew 7:22-23 .

    Many people are mistaken also because they were approached by preacher who told them to pray "sinner's prayer " . This prayer is man-made and not Scriptural and also does not work speaking from personal experience . I prayer and nothing happen untill few years after some preacher explained the gospel to me and I got saved by believing it.

    2. I.e. - in your opinion - what particular doctrine or lack of doctrine would likely form that God given line of division

    It's based in short of having Holy Spirit inside of you or not - Ephesians 1:13-14 .
    You have then you are saved if you don't then you aren't . You get Holy Spirit by accepting Christ as lamb for forgivness of sins as free gift and that after he paid for sin he rose from the dead .

    If you add anything to this gospel you are cursed according to Bible Galatians 1:8-9.
    By cursed it means you are still under the curse of sin which God pronounced at his creation after Adam and Eve sin in Genesis , and you are doomed .

    By adding anything or removing anything from the gospel one makes it no effect . Ephesians 2:8-9 , Romans 11:6.

    Like I said before most fake Christians can't tell you the gospel , how can they preach to others and spread the good news of salvation if they don't know it ? And if they don't know it are they saved ? Probably not .

    I usually like to ask person who says that they are Christian one of these questions to check if they know and understand it because understanding it is important .

    a) Where do you go when you die ?
    -most common answers which not saved people give are : I don't know , I will suffer for my sins then be cleaned of them , I don't believe in heaven or hell , Probably hell ,

    Correct answer Christian would give is heaven

    b) What is the gospel of salvation?
    - most common people will start giving their testimony what God changed in their lives and will say how God is good and that he loves you , showing me that they have no idea what the gospel is and are just people who were going to Church with their family and hearing preaching. People like this have no foundation to build upon like Christ said and by preaching this to others when bad times comes people tend to bunt they salvation and rightly so because they were most likelly never saved to begin with.

    Correct answer is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 , 1 Corinthians 1:23


    In the end I'll give baking cake recipe but for salvation.

    1.Preacher sent to preach good news
    2.Preacher telling gospel
    3.Unsaved person hearing gospel
    4.Unsaved person understanding gospel
    5.Unsaved person believing gospel
    6.Saved person being sealed with Holy Spirit

    Can be found in Romans 10:14-21
    So not just saying Jesus won't make you saved you need these steps above

    So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    You need to hear word of God
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  12. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,730
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I think the Bible gives very clear things >

    "we who first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12)

    We need to actively seek how God alone is able to truly correct us > Hebrews 12:4-14, James 5:16.

    And God changes us to be like Jesus in His love >

    "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

    If God's love is changing our character so we are becoming gentle and humble and all-loving like Jesus, we experience this.

    "rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

    We trust and depend on God to change us to be gentle and quiet in His love, so we are pleasing to Him like Jesus is. And in His gentle and quiet love we personally share with Him and we are submissive to how God personally rules us in our "hearts" with His own peace >

    "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

    If we are actively seeking and submitting to how our Father rules us in His own peace, we experience this. And this is a basic of our calling > "in one body", Paul says; so this is for every child of God. And what is more practical, that can help us with this? >

    "Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world" (in Philippians 2:13-16).

    By saying no to any stuff in us, which can get us to argue or complain, we can become more and more how God's love makes us "blameless" and "harmless" and "without fault" > the way God's love is, not only our own way of trying to make ourselves right. This comes not with our own struggling, but in snuggling with God in His love. And God commands this; so God Himself knows it is realistic to expect this with us . . . because of how God is able.
     
  13. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,292
    Presbyterian
    Single
    Mat 7:21 and similar passages say nothing about doctrine. The false disciples acted in his name, and even showed "power". They may well have had the correct doctrine. The problem was that they didn't do what God wanted. Throughout the rest of Matthew we learn that this is to show God's love.
     
  14. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +15,975
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Romans 2 even speaks of those who have not received any law, that they will be judged "on that day" ... and they will be judged according to the law God writes on the hearts of all men. (Which is basically how we treat others - everyone knows it is wrong to murder, to deprive the defenseless of their food, and so on.)

    And we have examples in society - some very vocal "Christian" groups who of course claim doctrine from the Scriptures, but yet spout unbelievable hatred, and by all appearances seem to enjoy doing it. And I have known atheist professors who could quote and know Scripture forwards and backwards - but scoff at the notion of trusting Christ. For that matter, demons understand quite a bit of "correct doctrine" and yet it does not "save" them.

    How we live, how we are formed, whether our hearts are aligned with God - these determine whether we are ABLE to trust in Christ. Not simply whether or not we assent to the proper doctrine.

    I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant. Christianity has never regarded it so. If someone has opportunity to know correct doctrine and rejects it (depending on which doctrines and what they replace them with) ... it can get in the way of knowing God in truth. But on the other hand, if someone is unable to know (especially perfect) doctrine, God isn't looking for mistakes on which to exclude people.
     
  15. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,292
    Presbyterian
    Single
    Fortunately one of the clearest assertions we have is that anyone who calls onGod will be saved. I think in most cases people caught up in error of various sorts may be told they weren’t really following Jesus but will still be forgiven. See 1 Cor 3:12.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  16. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +15,975
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I think that is a hope we should all have.
     
  17. Gup20

    Gup20 Member Supporter

    216
    +61
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Galatians 3:6-9 (NASB) 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

    The very first person saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ was Abraham. The scripture says God preached the gospel to him (and gives a single sentence example). So A) the gospel is much simpler than we make it, B) understanding is less important than belief.
     
  18. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

    +545
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    IMO - the only people who name the name of Christ who will not be saved are those who were never known by Him in the first place.

    "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you'." Matthew 7:22

    Of course there will be plenty of unsaved people who have practiced much lawlessness who will be lost because of it. Also there are those who leave the faith in final apostasy. But the scriptures are clear that they were not His children in the first place even though they may have said that they were.

    "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

    The only "doctrine" actually "cursed" by God is that of adding the keeping of the law to simple faith in the work of Christ to try to be justified before Him. I believe that includes, particularly for gentiles who have never had the written law, those who try to lead a good life where their conscience is free of guilt (as important as that is) in order to be found justified at the final judgement.

    "For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Galatians 3:10

    "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4

    "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law." Romans 2:14

    It's where they are putting their trust that matters when it comes to salvation in the basic sense. It's either in the work of Christ (which is given solely by grace on their behalf) or it is their own supposedly justifying works.

    Of course everyone agrees that works will of necessity follow faith. But there are obviously those who put the cart before the horse as it were and never trusted the work of Christ in the first place. Therefore they were never known by Him and were never born again.

    It's actually fairly easy to see just who that is after a bit of discussion concerning salvation. They may be the most "righteously" living Christians you have ever seen. But they may be relying on that righteous living to justify them in the end and will thus be perhaps lost when the Lord finally sorts us all out.

    I try to live as righteously as anyone else . But I wouldn't trade my simple trust in the work of Christ at Calvary for my basic salvation for all of the righteous acts of all the Christians in the world.

    That holds true for righteous acts done in the name of Jesus or not.

    At least that's my take on the matter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  19. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +2,565
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Religious capitalism. Amassing a wealth of good deeds to purchase what is free (and worse yet sell the concept).
     
  20. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,292
    Presbyterian
    Single
    This is a really slippery claim, because it's all too easy to claim that everyone you disagree with wasn't known by Jesus.
    Those who abandon the faith I'll give you. But you're got to be careful about Mat 7:22. I believe there are plenty of people who think they're acting in Jesus' name and they aren't. I'm sure they'll find that out when they meet him face to face, and no doubt they'll be called evildoers.

    But there are several reasons to avoid being so quick to talk about damnation.
    • We are assured many times that if we call on the Lord to be saved we will be. I see no requirement that we have to be free of error for that to happen.
    • Paul, in 1 Cor 3:12 gives us a good explanation for how work not built on Christ will be destroyed, but we will still survive the experience.
    • In Mark 9:38 Jesus confronts the exact situation described in Mt 7:22, and seems to say (though the wording in a bit convoluted) that anyone doing a deed in his name will be accepted, even if it's just giving someone a cup of water.
    I see an issue with this as well. There are plenty of Christians who in one way or another include legalism as part of their faith. Indeed it seems like 90% of CF postings have this problem. But I see nowhere in Scripture where theological error is said to result in damnation.

    Paul deals with this very problem. He has people disagreeing over Sabbath rules and over eating meat that has been sacrificed. He's about as clear as one can possibly be that that kind of legalism is unacceptable. But he still counsels us to accept that people who are not eating meat and honoring the Sabbath are doing so in the Lord's name, and we're to accept that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
Loading...