Which "Christians" will not be saved?

BCsenior said:

This is like all of the other NT verses regarding ...
the result of INITIALLY believing to God's satisfaction!

My focus, however, is on keeping BACs saved
because of all of the many dire warnings regarding ...
the possibility of losing salvation.

And some of the best are right here ... enjoy ...
Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

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How many sins does it take to lose your salvation?

This is my request:
"OK, provide just the single most clear verse that "selflessness over self" results in salvation."

timothyu said:

Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

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As I knew, there is NOTHING here about loving others that result in salvation.

So, again, provide any verse that DOES say that salvation requires "selflessness over self".

This first attempt failed.

timothyu said:

You proved the words and teachings of Jesus wrong?

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No, I proved your opinions were wrong and in conflict with Jesus' words and teaching.

timothyu said:

I go by the Gospel of the Kingdom. What is yours?

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You still haven't defined what you think "gospel of the kingdom" means.

And I've already given you mine. It is the exact same as these verses:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

You haven't provided ANY verse that supports your claim.

You are free to believe what you want however.

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Yep. We all are. And I have chosen to believe exactly what the Bible says, unlike yourself.

Again I refer you to Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom.

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And what is that?

BCsenior said:

My focus, however, is on keeping BACs saved

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That is Jesus' focus. Which is why He promised that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

because of all of the many dire warnings regarding ...
the possibility of losing salvation.

Click to expand...

So then, you just don't believe what Jesus said. Good to know.

And some of the best are right here ... enjoy ...
Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

Click to expand...

lol. Not a single one says anything about losing salvation. You just want them to refer to losing salvation.

otoh, John 10:28 very clearly states that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

That is a direct statement about eternal security.

iow, once eternal life is received, which is by faith, the recipient shall never perish.

Period. Case closed.

FreeGrace2 said:

This first attempt failed.

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Only in your mind. Sorry you don't see it.
There are 70 odd scriptures that refer to the Kingdom, it being the reason Jesus said His good news was of the Kingdom. Your verses are not an alternative truth but instead all point towards the Kingdom through Jesus. Kingdom was His priority. Just look at the Lord's prayer. God's will over man's instead of our way first. The fact Christianity abandoned it so it could rejoin the world hoping to avoid repercussion is another story, but greatly influences outlooks ever since, the blind leading the blind through the ages away from the Kingdom, focusing on the man not the message..

Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

God's governance over man's

timothyu said:

There are 70 odd scriptures that refer to the Kingdom, it being the reason Jesus said His good news was of the Kingdom.

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And you still haven't defined exactly what this "good news" is.

Your verses are not an alternative truth but instead all point towards the Kingdom through Jesus.

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Of course the verses I quoted aren't an "alternative" anything. They ARE the good news of the kingdom.

FreeGrace2 said:

And you still haven't defined exactly what this "good news" is.

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That there is salvation and an alternate way to the rebellious self serving ways of man. That those who repent of those ways will be considered for life in the Kingdom under the Kingdom of God rather than of man. That those who repent will find themselves outcasts in the world of man which functions opposite to the will of God, preferring the self serving self justifying will of man. We can't have it both ways so a simple gospel of salvation is only a part of the whole Gospel of the Kingdom.

Forgive me but you seem to be talking about two different things.

Salvation by grace is the matter of ones eternal status as an adopted son or daughter.

The Kingdom of God refers to how one responds to the rule of Christ after salvation.

There are verses confirming each of these two seperate matters.

You are both right.

Just keep these two issues seperate and the truth falls into place.

I pointed out:
"And you still haven't defined exactly what this "good news" is."

timothyu said:

That there is salvation and an alternate way to the rebellious self serving ways of man.

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This isn't even a sentence.

That those who repent of those ways will be considered for life in the Kingdom under the Kingdom of God rather than of man.

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lol. "will be considered". Well, well. Where do you find that in Scripture.

FreeGrace2 said:

"will be considered"

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a lot of the Lord Lord's won't get in. If their actions/fruits weren't considered, how then?

FreeGrace2 said:

This isn't even a sentence.

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Stooping to ridicule is a tell.

timothyu said:

a lot of the Lord Lord's won't get in.

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What in the world do you mean by "Lord Lord's"?

If their actions/fruits weren't considered, how then?

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Oh, I see. You subscribe to the "earn your way to heaven" theology. Right. Just like the condemned Pharisees in Jesus' time. That's what they thought, too.

It's obvious that you aren't familiar with Eph 2:8,9.

I pointed out:
"This isn't even a sentence."

timothyu said:

Stooping to ridicule is a tell.

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When a poster posts words that don't make a sentence, that is quite telling.

And the string of words you put together wasn't a sentence. That's not a ridicule. It is the truth.

From post #228
"That there is salvation and an alternate way to the rebellious self serving ways of man."

FreeGrace2 said:

Oh, I see. You subscribe to the "earn your way to heaven" theology.

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Nope, the actions prove you mean your new allegiance to the Kingdom, proving one's repentance. Actions have always spoken louder than words and the OT and new is full of instances where the actions of the people proved their vow to follow God was or was not happening, and God dealt with them accordingly. God doesn't change to suit the ideals of a 'believer'.

FreeGrace2 said:

What in the world do you mean by "Lord Lord's"?

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Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Doing the will is an action to prove allegiance with the Kingdom of God. It 's not works trying to buy the way in. All it takes is commitment to the Kingdom over the world of man. God will see whether you mean it by your actions.

FreeGrace2 said:

That's not a ridicule. It is the truth.

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Your motive being??

FreeGrace2 said:

That there is salvation and an alternate way to the rebellious self serving ways of man."

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You disagree man is self serving and rebellious to the will of God?

I said:
"Oh, I see. You subscribe to the "earn your way to heaven" theology."

timothyu said:

Nope,

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One can deny all they want, but your words prove otherwise.

the actions prove you mean your new allegiance to the Kingdom, proving one's repentance.

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Do you understand that "proving" doesn't equate to "causing"?

Said another way, lack of proof doesn't mean lack of salvation. No one gets to heaven because they proved something.

Actions have always spoken louder than words and the OT and new is full of instances where the actions of the people proved their vow to follow God was or was not happening, and God dealt with them accordingly. God doesn't change to suit the ideals of a 'believer'.

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Why do you put those marks around the word believer? What are you trying to insinuate?

When a person believes in Christ for salvation, a number of things occur that are Unchangeable.

1. they become a new creature. 2 Cor 5:17
2. they possess eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11, 13
3. they are sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13
4. they are guaranteed an inheritance for the of redemption as God's possession. Eph 1:14
5. they are born of incorruptible seed. 1 Pet 1:23

Now, I said these are unchangeable things. If you can prove otherwise, by providing verses that directly and clearly say any of these 5 things can be changed back, please proceed.

But, until then, they refute the notion that salvation can be lost.

I asked:
"What in the world do you mean by "Lord Lord's"?"

timothyu said:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

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OK, the unbelieving crowd in Matt 7:21-23.

Doing the will is an action to prove allegiance with the Kingdom of God.

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Can you cite a verse that tells us what the will of the Father is?

It 's not works trying to buy the way in. All it takes is commitment to the Kingdom over the world of man.

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I think you need to study the meaning of 'commitment'. It's certainly not what you seem to think it is. To be committed to something IMPLIES lots of effort. So, you still think of salvation in terms of work.

God will see whether you mean it by your actions.

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Oh, I see. You don't believe that God is omniscient then. I strongly disagree with you.