Which came first: Adam or the Child Adam?

[JacksBratt]

Toil came after the fall?

Where is there any indication that he was not created as an adult man?

 

[JacksBratt]

Adam would not have had a name for all the other species of animals, if he had no experience as a child.

Only by dying to the child within, does the man grasp the meaning of Heaven.

Child first, Man second; Heaven first, Earth second.

Seriously?

 

[JacksBratt]

They were not ashamed, because they had been children.

If they saw each other as adults, before consummating the union,, it would have been sin.

True union, is the marriage of one spirit,, to another (spirit) - it has nothing to do with being a child.

This is crazy.. They had no shame because they were innocent and did not have the knowledge of good and evil...

Your theory here is a waste of time... Silly even.

 

[coffee4u]

The Bible says they walked with God.



They were married, by faith.



He could only be held accountable, if he knew that what he had done was in part more childish than necessary.

When you give an account to a child, of what Adam did, you don't say "he made a terrible mistake trusting God" (that is, as though he were only testing God),, you say "Adam refused to do what he was told" (that is, in keeping with the fact that he had a relationship with God).

Just for a moment, think about what it means when Jesus says "you must become as a little child to enter Heaven" - do you all say "but we are men?"

In time the Holy Spirit will convict you of this, anyway. If you are certain of your relationship to Jesus in a childish way, not being as other children were will not lead you into great condemnation.

The Holy Spirit tells me that God's word is true.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Scripture says that Adam was a man.
Children do not get married, Adam was one flesh with his wife.

Indeed we are to believe with an open heart like a child, not return to physical childhood or like Nicodemus think we must enter into our mother's womb again.
There are no scriptures saying that Adam was a child.

The first Adam brought in death -the second Adam, Jesus brought in life. God did not lay the responsibility of the death of mankind upon a little boy, the same way God did not let Jesus be crucified a child.
1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
Jesus died as a man because Adam was a man.

 

[mmksparbud]

And they still had extremely limited technology, and bare bones understanding of the world. Much of the language of the bible shows this. Look at some of the prophetic books for example. Ezekiel seems to describe flying saucers, Revelation seems to describe a nuclear war. They do it in terms that they can understand.. a wheel of fire in the sky that made a sound like rushing water when it moved and could hover in place, and fire from heaven annihilating entire armies or even entire nations.
How else would a first century AD man describe a nuclear war other than fire from heaven?

I'd think with as much intelligence as you give them credit for and as long of lives as they had, that they'd be capable of developing more than a plow.

The bible was not written by the pre-flood people. I doubt they wrote anything down---why bother when you have a memory capable of memorizing a phone book? We have no idea of what technology these people had. People are always stating how it's aliens from other worlds or demonic half-bred angels that built all these things that nobody can figure out how. They would rather think gigantic aliens did them then to think that it was the knowledge of the pre-flood people that some was passed down through Noah and his children. Bare bones knowledge4---don't think so. God did not make stupid people.

Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

These were masters in their fields---it just named a few. LOL! People just want them to be dumb cavemen sitting around the campfire, grunting and gnawing on bones. That came later, after the flood, after much knowledge had been forgotten. Esp. After the dispersal at the Tower of Babel.

 

[doctorwho29]

I go by simply what the Bible says and it says that Adam and his Wife were to tend the garden and fill the Earth. This implies adulthood for both of them. That's honestly all we need right there

 

[LoG]

Pretty clear that Adam was a man physically but the question in my mind would be what his mental and emotional maturity would have been as those come from life experiences dealing with the world around us. Also a question of his spiritual maturity. Would or could he have been created with those facets at a level of what would be expected of someone considered an adult?

 

[mmksparbud]

Pretty clear that Adam was a man physically but the question in my mind would be what his mental and emotional maturity would have been as those come from life experiences dealing with the world around us. Also a question of his spiritual maturity. Would or could he have been created with those facets at a level of what would be expected of someone considered an adult?

Obedience is understood even by a dog---they understand "NO!" You don't need a college education to understand "Do not eat of this tree." They disobeyed. They rebelled against God. They believed a beautiful snake instead of the plain word of God. And what snake are you listening to??

 

[LoG]

And what snake are you listening to??

The one prompting me to not take offence at another's overly aggressive posting and just forgive them

 

[mmksparbud]

The one prompting me to not take offence at another's overly aggressive posting and just forgive them

No one is being overly aggressive---we do defend the word of God and state the truth. And we forgive you for trying to contradict the word of God.

 

[LoG]

And we forgive you for trying to contradict the word of God.

Perhaps you would enlighten me where in my post I was contradicting God's word?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

You run into a slipper slope with this claim. Why would God create an under developed man? At what age would Adam be? Two years? Eleven years? And what would be the purpose? How old was Eve since she came later? Two years? Eleven years? Was Adam an adult when Eve was created? If she was two, how can she understand deception by the serpent? And more importantly how useful is a child to a man? She was made as his helper. If Adam was 20 and Eve was 2 then he would be a father figure rather than a husband. Why would Adam be a child then Eve is created as an adult?
My friend, both Adam and Eve were made fully mature. I do hope this is not a trend.
Blessings

 

[DamianWarS]

Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

if Adam was 20 upon creation he still has no muscle memory and wouldn't know how to walk, hold things or even speak. He would be as good as a baby. But if Adam was a baby upon creation then does this mean Eve was also a baby upon her creation? So Adam desires a mate and God gives him a baby girl so he has to care for her like a daughter only to have sex with her when s̶h̶e̶ he is ready? That's messed up and it strays too far from the narrative.

regardless how you accept these accounts we effectively should treat them as non-literal accounts (even if you think they are literal) For example if you take a simple non-literal story, say little red ridding hood a whole pile of questions come up that the story cannot answer. Like how does the wolf talk, how could a child be deceived so easily, how could the wolf swallow the girl and grandmother whole and then later be cut out the wolf unharmed (Grimm's version) and the list goes on and on. Other details of the account are also unknown like where are the parents and why is little red riding hood sent out like this. You could easily create a very lengthy lists of oddities and inconsistencies. But because it's a non-literal account it doesn't matter. The wolf may talk, pretend he is the grandmother and sleep while the huntsman is cutting open his stomach all without giving explanation and we must accept whatever is told to us. Also details not mention don't exist. You may image whatever you wish to fill in blanks but these blanks cannot direct the narrative in anyway because they don't matter. the narrative is the judge and rule and whatever it says goes, whatever it doesn't say doesn't matter.

this is the same with the creation account and pretty much all pre-abrahamic account (or at least pre-flood). There is a lot of inconsistencies and questions about them that emerge. But if the text doesn't say it, then it is irresponsible of us to start inventing content in the blanks because they are unverifiable especially when we are trying to steer the narrative. If Adam was created as a baby or an adult, or he was around for 100 years before Eve came into the picture, non of it matters, and if it did matter the text would have put it in. It doesn't matter because the text doesn't value the details, only the details that the text tells us are are important, nothing else is, just like all non-literal accounts.

These account are built with a focus and goal in mind. the details are designed to build the goal and no irrelevant detail is mentioned just like any non-literal account is built. They mirror non-literal accounts in so many ways but the question if they are literal or not to me is the most uninteresting question of the account.

I'm sure you can infer I lean on the side that these accounts are non-literal which would view these characters as non-existent off the pages they are described however I think a too dogmatic position of a non-literal view violates accounts to much and I try and stay balanced leaving the question alone, saying basically it doesn't matter if they are literal or not. Literalists may argue but in reality even they need to treat Adam in this way too because the moment we begin to paint our own picture of Adam we are inventing details that can change the narrative. If the account doesn't say it, then although it may be fun to think of what it was like it serves no theological or doctrinal purpose.

 

[mmksparbud]

Perhaps you would enlighten me where in my post I was contradicting God's word?

Nowhere in God's word does it say that Adam and Eve were children, nor of limited intelligence. God did not create the dysfunctional. It says He created a man and a woman---not children.

26 and~he~will~SAY(V) (וַיֹּאמֶר / wai'yo'mer) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) we~will~DO(V) (נַעֲשֶׂה / na'a'seh) HUMAN (אָדָם / a'dam) in~IMAGE~us (בְּצַלְמֵנוּ / bê'tsal'mey'nu) like~LIKENESS~us (כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ / kid'mu'tey'nu) and~he~did~RULE(V) (וְיִרְדּוּ / wê'yir'du) in~FISH (בִדְגַת / vid'gat) the~SEA (הַיָּם / hai'yam) and~in~FLYER (וּבְעוֹף / uv'oph) the~SKY~s2 (הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim) and~in~the~BEAST (וּבַבְּהֵמָה / u'va'be'hey'mah) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) the~TREADER (הָרֶמֶשׂ / ha're'mes) the~TREAD(V)~ing(ms) (הָרֹמֵשׂ / ha'ro'meys) UPON (עַל / al) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets)

RMT: and Elohiym said, we will make a human in our image, like our likeness, and he will rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all the treaders treading upon the land,

27 and~he~will~SHAPE(V) (וַיִּבְרָא / wai'yiv'ra) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) the~HUMAN (הָאָדָם / ha'a'dam) in~IMAGE~him (בְּצַלְמוֹ / bê'tsal'mo) in~IMAGE (בְּצֶלֶם / bê'tse'lem) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) he~did~SHAPE(V) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) AT~him (אֹתוֹ / o'to) MALE (זָכָר / za'khar) and~FEMALE (וּנְקֵבָה / un'qey'vah) he~did~SHAPE(V) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) AT~them(m) (אֹתָם / o'tam)

RMT: and Elohiym shaped the human in his image, in the image of Elohiym he shaped him, male and female he shaped them,

28 and~he~will~much~KNEEL(V) (וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh) AT~them(m) (אֹתָם / o'tam) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) and~he~will~SAY(V) (וַיֹּאמֶר / wai'yo'mer) to~~them(m) (לָהֶם / la'hem) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) !(mp)~REPRODUCE(V) (פְּרוּ / pê'ru) and~!(mp)~INCREASE(V) (וּרְבוּ / ur'vu) and~!(mp)~FILL(V) (וּמִלְאוּ / u'mil'u) AT (אֶת / et) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) and~!(mp)~SUBDUE(V)~her (וְכִבְשֻׁהָ / wê'khiv'shu'ah) and~!(mp)~RULE(V) (וּרְדוּ / ur'du) in~FISH (בִּדְגַת / bid'gat) the~SEA (הַיָּם / hai'yam) and~in~FLYER (וּבְעוֹף / uv'oph) the~SKY~s2 (הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) LIVING (חַיָּה / hhai'yah) the~TREAD(V)~ing(fs) (הָרֹמֶשֶׂת / ha'ro'me'set) UPON (עַל / al) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets)

RMT: and Elohiym exalted them, and Elohiym said to them, reproduce and increase and fill the land and subdue her, and rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in all the living ones treading upon the land,

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]
The Torah: Genesis 1

A child does not reproduce nor can a child subdue the land and all the animals.

 

[JacksBratt]

Nowhere in God's word does it say that Adam and Eve were children, nor of limited intelligence. God did not create the dysfunctional. It says He created a man and a woman---not children.

26 and~he~will~SAY(V) (וַיֹּאמֶר / wai'yo'mer) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) we~will~DO(V) (נַעֲשֶׂה / na'a'seh) HUMAN (אָדָם / a'dam) in~IMAGE~us (בְּצַלְמֵנוּ / bê'tsal'mey'nu) like~LIKENESS~us (כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ / kid'mu'tey'nu) and~he~did~RULE(V) (וְיִרְדּוּ / wê'yir'du) in~FISH (בִדְגַת / vid'gat) the~SEA (הַיָּם / hai'yam) and~in~FLYER (וּבְעוֹף / uv'oph) the~SKY~s2 (הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim) and~in~the~BEAST (וּבַבְּהֵמָה / u'va'be'hey'mah) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) the~TREADER (הָרֶמֶשׂ / ha're'mes) the~TREAD(V)~ing(ms) (הָרֹמֵשׂ / ha'ro'meys) UPON (עַל / al) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets)

RMT: and Elohiym said, we will make a human in our image, like our likeness, and he will rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all the treaders treading upon the land,

27 and~he~will~SHAPE(V) (וַיִּבְרָא / wai'yiv'ra) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) the~HUMAN (הָאָדָם / ha'a'dam) in~IMAGE~him (בְּצַלְמוֹ / bê'tsal'mo) in~IMAGE (בְּצֶלֶם / bê'tse'lem) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) he~did~SHAPE(V) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) AT~him (אֹתוֹ / o'to) MALE (זָכָר / za'khar) and~FEMALE (וּנְקֵבָה / un'qey'vah) he~did~SHAPE(V) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) AT~them(m) (אֹתָם / o'tam)

RMT: and Elohiym shaped the human in his image, in the image of Elohiym he shaped him, male and female he shaped them,

28 and~he~will~much~KNEEL(V) (וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh) AT~them(m) (אֹתָם / o'tam) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) and~he~will~SAY(V) (וַיֹּאמֶר / wai'yo'mer) to~~them(m) (לָהֶם / la'hem) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) !(mp)~REPRODUCE(V) (פְּרוּ / pê'ru) and~!(mp)~INCREASE(V) (וּרְבוּ / ur'vu) and~!(mp)~FILL(V) (וּמִלְאוּ / u'mil'u) AT (אֶת / et) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) and~!(mp)~SUBDUE(V)~her (וְכִבְשֻׁהָ / wê'khiv'shu'ah) and~!(mp)~RULE(V) (וּרְדוּ / ur'du) in~FISH (בִּדְגַת / bid'gat) the~SEA (הַיָּם / hai'yam) and~in~FLYER (וּבְעוֹף / uv'oph) the~SKY~s2 (הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) LIVING (חַיָּה / hhai'yah) the~TREAD(V)~ing(fs) (הָרֹמֶשֶׂת / ha'ro'me'set) UPON (עַל / al) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets)

RMT: and Elohiym exalted them, and Elohiym said to them, reproduce and increase and fill the land and subdue her, and rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in all the living ones treading upon the land,

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]
The Torah: Genesis 1

A child does not reproduce nor can a child subdue the land and all the animals.

And, He saw that it was good...

 

[Ken Rank]

Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

God made a man, not a child. Chavah (Eve) came from his side as a woman, not a child. The language is clear enough.

 

[Gerhardus]

Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

 

[Yarddog]

Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

Or maybe that nudging of the Holy Spirit was that the story of Adam and Eve was something entirely different.

 

[Jamdoc]

The bible was not written by the pre-flood people. I doubt they wrote anything down---why bother when you have a memory capable of memorizing a phone book? We have no idea of what technology these people had. People are always stating how it's aliens from other worlds or demonic half-bred angels that built all these things that nobody can figure out how. They would rather think gigantic aliens did them then to think that it was the knowledge of the pre-flood people that some was passed down through Noah and his children. Bare bones knowledge4---don't think so. God did not make stupid people.

Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

These were masters in their fields---it just named a few. LOL! People just want them to be dumb cavemen sitting around the campfire, grunting and gnawing on bones. That came later, after the flood, after much knowledge had been forgotten. Esp. After the dispersal at the Tower of Babel.

We know what technology these people had because they left no remnants of any. We can find flint and stone arrowheads and hand tools that I'm sure are pre flood, but we don't find any advanced technology

as far as none of the bible being written pre flood, I take it that means you aren't in the camp that believes the Book of Job was written pre flood when they believe that Dinosaurs were still actively in the world but were gone afterwards. I mean I take a completely different approach on dinosaurs (I don't necessarily think that animals were deathless like man was before the fall, I think that's making a leap of logic and assumption that isn't spelled out, it is possible they were, it is also possible that they weren't and lived and died while Adam was timeless in the garden), but if you want to be young earth, the commonly held theory was that dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood. The book of Job has dinosaurs as still being present so chronologically it may have been written before the flood, we don't know who the author of Job was.

 

[mmksparbud]

We know what technology these people had because they left no remnants of any. We can find flint and stone arrowheads and hand tools that I'm sure are pre flood, but we don't find any advanced technology

as far as none of the bible being written pre flood, I take it that means you aren't in the camp that believes the Book of Job was written pre flood when they believe that Dinosaurs were still actively in the world but were gone afterwards. I mean I take a completely different approach on dinosaurs (I don't necessarily think that animals were deathless like man was before the fall, I think that's making a leap of logic and assumption that isn't spelled out, it is possible they were, it is also possible that they weren't and lived and died while Adam was timeless in the garden), but if you want to be young earth, the commonly held theory was that dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood. The book of Job has dinosaurs as still being present so chronologically it may have been written before the flood, we don't know who the author of Job was.

LOL! They left everything they had---it got buried under tons of rock, sand mud and water--so no---we don't know what technology they had. You may be3 sure of artifacts being pre-flood---however, carbon dating isn't accurate before about 6,000 years no matter what they say. It's based on the oxygen levels and other factors being constant and the same as today----they weren't. Right at creation and until they flood they were totally different and nobody knows what they were. Oxygen levels were much higher for one thing. The whole atmosphere was different.