Where's the second chance Passover come in?

[FrankDux]

Well, it's sod pardes you're after I suggest some metrology studies

 

[dqhall]

So that stirs another question in me; was the Last Supper, also a Passover Meal. When I read Moses, the Passover lamb was to be killed during the day (Nisan 14) and then eaten that night. At sunset, Nissan 15 and a sabbath would have started correct? It seems to me Jesus had to be crucified on Nissan 14 during the day; which makes the last supper in the evening after Nissan 13 (at sunset for the Last Supper became Nissan 14). If this is true, the Last Supper, may have had similarities to the Passover, but was not? So in that case, Jesus would have missed the actual passover meal as he was in the tomb. Would then the second passover have given him the opportunity to "fulfill all righteousness"?

All men and boys who were able bodied and not imbecile were required to attend the Passover. Jesus was arrested on the night of the day of preparation for the Passover. On the day of preparation, they were to make sure their houses were cleansed of leaven and the food for the Passover was prepared. The lambs were to be slaughtered in the temple the afternoon of the day of preparation. Jesus was on the cross while this was being done. The Gospel of John more accurately describes some of these details. Those Jews who took Jesus to Pilate did not want to enter his building for fear they might be made unclean for the Passover. Jews were not supposed to enter Gentiles' houses, for these houses were not observant of what was Kosher.

In Acts 15 there is a description of what is required of Gentile believers. We are not bound to the Torah, per se. Gentiles may proceed uncircumcised and not burdened by the law. Jesus is greater than the law. I do not have to go to Jerusalem to attend the Passover festival for a week as was required of males during the time of Jesus. There is evidence in the Talmud for the Passover observance. There is also some evidence supporting Passover observance in Persian era papyri found at Elephantine Island in Egypt. There is evidence of early Talmudic practice from the scrolls found at Qumran. The Samaritans who were not taken into Assyria, when the ten tribes were led into captivity, have the Passover observance in their Torah.

 

[Rakis]

So now that we know the Passover lamb was a foreshadow of the real thing that is Jesus been the passover lamb whom was sacrificed for the sin of the World there is now no more sacrifices needed so now salvation has been made available to all men.

 

[Shempster]

If you know anything about the harvest of the barley vs. the wheat it will lead you to the answers you are seeking.

Bless up!

 

[The Times]

So now that we know the Passover lamb was a foreshadow of the real thing that is Jesus been the passover lamb whom was sacrificed for the sin of the World there is now no more sacrifices needed so now salvation has been made available to all men.

I second that.

 

[The Times]

A passover lamb is meant for reconciliation with God the Father. No one can claim a reconcialatory passover directly to God the Father in the absence of the Son.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I've pondered on this and studied it a little, but I figure I will put it out here to see what thoughts you all can offer.

So, Yeshua is our Passover Lamb, who died on Passover and took away the sins of all those that come to faith in Him. That's the Passover for the believer, right?

How then does Number 9 come into play?

If I am on a "long journey" in life to come to Yeshua, when is the opportunity missed and therefore in need of the "second Passover" opportunity?

Is that post-death some time? That would certainly contradict the vast majority of theologians...not that the Bible doesn't do that already on many other topics. I'm definitely learning to read it myself because most Chrisitian's theology and the Bible just don't line up. So please, can you offer every possible Scripture you have on the subject?

I realize that many of you errantly believe the "Old Testament" is outdated and we can ignore it. If you're that person, this question isn't for you. I would like to hear from those of you that consider yourselves observant of God's everlasting Torah.

I guess my boiled down question is when do we officially miss our first chance at participating in the "Passover lamb" that would then necessitate our second opportunity?

You are certainly missing the point of the Passover and Numbers 9 completely. if you go to the 1st Passover which was a specific night and time there was no provision for not being covered by the blood of the sacrifice aver the door post. In Numbers 9 this is a memorial that is now instituted. The identifying with the significance of the Passover was instituted in Number 9 and the wideness of God not wanting to cut anyone off for what is now a religious right provided for those who were away to still participate. Both the 1st Passover and the memorial are prophetic in nature.
John the Baptist said of Jesus "behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" Abraham went to offer Isaac on the mountain and the angel held him back and a ram was caught in the thicket and Abraham offered the ram and named that mountain which translates to God will provide Himself a sacrifice. This is future tense. In Isaiah 53 the specifics of Jesus death for us are promised.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they[fn] made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,

In Rev 5 no one was found worthy to take the scrolls and open the seals.

4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read[fn] the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose[fn] its seven seals.”
6 And I looked, and behold,[fn] in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

This is just a small sampling of the significance of Lord Jesus coming as the Passover Lamb. He took away the sins of the world and those who believe in him should not perish but the condemnation is light comes into the world and men preferred darkness to the light less they should believe and be saved.

You are a sinner just as we all are but your greatest sin is unbelief. Your case against Passover is written with the heart of a scoffer who seems to have settled the debate in his mind and are really not pursuing truth but wanting to voice your ridicule. You are created in the image of God and Gods standard is sinless perfection. The lamb was inspected and had to be perfect and only Jesus as Passover Lamb could pass that inspection. We are those who will perish unless covered by the blood of the Lamb. God has set up Jesus and the REssurection as proof of Him being the incarnate son of God with victory over sin and death. This is also seen on the day of atonement where two sacrifices were brought up and the sins of the people were confessed over them and one was set free and the other killed for atonement of the people. We are the ones set free by the blood of the other. In the 1st Passover deliverance from bondage is the result of the blood of the Passover. The prophetic metaphor offers you the blood of Jesus to free you from the bondage of your sin. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Jesus said if you do not believe I am he you will die in your sins. So your life is like Passover you have until death to be covered by the blood of Christ or you die in your sins. Like Passover teh angel of death will visit you one day and you will not be like Number9 given another chance.
1 cor
55 “O Death, where is your sting?[fn]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[fn]
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

At death you are sealed in belief or unbelief, no do overs.

 

[danstribe]

Obedience comes automatically when we abide in Christ. He has come to set us free from the yoke of slavery (the Laws of Moses), and if He sets us free we are free indeed. The entire NT is filled with warnings against "Judaizers", against Jewish Christians preaching that this-or-that law must be upheld and are labeled as "false teachers" which we are warned to stay away from.

Christ in us obeys YHWH's moral law, which must always be upheld.

I must agree with Jeff that the "second chance Passover" of Numbers 9 is not a foreshadowing of something to come, but rather a display of God's grace and mercy to those of OT times when it came to things beyond their control (i.e. tripping over/falling into a dead body, or some other happenstance uncleanliness).

The "yoke" of bondage we were under was the bondage to sin which is disobedience to God's Law not the Law itself. God's moral Law is the Ten Commandments that Moses carried down from the mountain. The Ten commandments did not include the sacrificial and ritualistic "laws of Moses".
The "yoke" around our necks was the penalty of breaking God's Law which is death, also known as the prison we were in, death. The keeping of the Law was meant to bring life but because we sin the result is death. Christ only kept the Law completely and did away with the PENALTY He did not do away with the Law itself or the need to keep it. His sacrifice fulfilled ALL the requirements of the sacrificial and ritualistic laws AND paid our penalty to set us free from death/prison.
But NOW when we obey we must give credit to Christ in us as the One keeping the Law and when we disobey we must give Christ thanks for His continued forgiveness which is what grace is, continued forgiveness but never license to disobey.
The second Passover should also apply still, but in the newness of it's observance by the example Christ gave for the bread and wine and washing of feet.

 

[PropheticTimes]

The "yoke" of bondage we were under was the bondage to sin which is disobedience to God's Law not the Law itself. God's moral Law is the Ten Commandments that Moses carried down from the mountain. The Ten commandments did not include the sacrificial and ritualistic "laws of Moses".
The "yoke" around our necks was the penalty of breaking God's Law which is death, also known as the prison we were in, death. The keeping of the Law was meant to bring life but because we sin the result is death. Christ only kept the Law completely and did away with the PENALTY He did not do away with the Law itself or the need to keep it. His sacrifice fulfilled ALL the requirements of the sacrificial and ritualistic laws AND paid our penalty to set us free from death/prison.
But NOW when we obey we must give credit to Christ in us as the One keeping the Law and when we disobey we must give Christ thanks for His continued forgiveness which is what grace is, continued forgiveness but never license to disobey.
The second Passover should also apply still, but in the newness of it's observance by the example Christ gave for the bread and wine and washing of feet.

You are correct in that we are to keep the moral law, but we have been freed by Christ from the laws given to Moses, which no man could adhere to except Jesus Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are correct in that we are to keep the moral law, but we have been freed by Christ from the laws given to Moses, which no man could adhere to except Jesus Christ.

Remember that one man who came to Jesus,
and told Jesus what he did, (kept all the commandments).

Jesus did not disagree with him.

 

[danstribe]

You are correct in that we are to keep the moral law, but we have been freed by Christ from the laws given to Moses, which no man could adhere to except Jesus Christ.

You are exactly right! You just said it more simpler than I did. There are so many Christians that believe the moral law of the Ten Commandments was what was nailed to the cross and done away with or that we don't have to keep them because Christ did it for us. He showed us HOW to keep them even better with His help.

 

[PropheticTimes]

Remember that one man who came to Jesus,
and told Jesus what he did, (kept all the commandments).

Jesus did not disagree with him.

Yes, those were the moral laws, the Ten Commandments, and yet even after doing all of those he was not perfect

 

[drayanna]

Aaron Rich,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your question or your desire to research connections of old and new testament. I keep a journal and color code it with Facts, thoughts, ideas, and historical attributes.
As growing up non-Jewish I don't know many of their ways. Yet at 4 years of age the Holy Spirit revealed Himself to me and I knew Jesus loved me. At 11 in America in the early 80s with no idea that a passover wasn't a bridge but a Jewish tradition, I dedicated my life in public to belong to Jesus. My life continues with the knowledge that Jesus Christ works in the gentile nations of every tongue rather they know Jewish traditional ways or not.
As I now enjoy reading about the twelve tribes then and will be I find alot of connections from old to new testaments. In some ways to answer a question in new you have to have old or vise versa.

As long as you study these areas with the Holy Spirit guiding and through prayer. As saved by Jesus Christ you know when the Holy Spirit is warning you to run and when to speak. This is biblical. There is no confusion worse for a new Christian than to say "don't question why" we should tell them "trust in Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit will guide you especially in the Word.

In example I as a little girl had a hard time understanding the old testament and no one seemed to have the answers. I still knew that Jesus loved me. Later in life the question was answered in such a way that opened (when my faith matured) the old testament up like a developing rose. We need to remember that Jesus keeps His sheep and does not let them wander far. Only those that try to climb the fence instead of the door get lost for they never truly accepted Jesus and went through the door.
as well as Jesus saying that all nations and tongues will have His Word in the end days tell us that yes the torrah is important but there is more in (W)ord than a (w)ord. The Sword is beyond translations or even our understanding the Sword is wielded by Our Savior. Thus being able to reach all nations rather they follow ancient Jewish customs or not. But much understanding does come from knowledge of customs.
But customs,traditions, do not save. Only Jesus Christ as the Lamb. I knew that as a 4 year old and 11 and now at 45 I know the Lamb saves but now I understand the meaning in connection to the unblimished Lamb in Jewish law. Amazing is Our Heavenly Father.

Never let someone try to stop you in your quest to seek out answers mentioned in any of the Word of God. Unless it is the Holy Spirit saying it's not for you to know or its not time.
In example: I asked a question to know for sure where I would be spiritually when I die physically. I asked for advise and alot of platitudes were given and although I was going to a church closer to where I lived I drove to the end of the road and instead of turning the wheel to the left I felt the Holy Spirit tell me to turn right. I drove not knowing where I was going and my husband just asking what are you doing and I said I don't know. I then realize there is this new church non-denominational ahead and I feel like it's where I need to go. (I am not one to go to a new church) but that day after a week of asking the question in prayer the pastor of that church that day talked of those asleep in Christ will ...... my answer.. I praised God and cried. I read that verse but it was then that it was understood. I'm in Christ rather asleep or when the day of the Lord comes. That was all I needed to know. I love being in Christ!... no better place to be...
My point ask away discern the Word wisely divide it even.. interesting that if you divide the Word as Paul said to do them you are comparing old and new. Interesting that old and new compliment each other clearly for one who is IN the WORD than one that says they contradict each other.
In example how one place in old can tell us who in Revelation reaps the first harvest.

Daniel 7 tells us:
I saw in the night visions, and, behold,one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Then in Rev 14: 14
I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle

There is no doubt that when divided there are connections.

My thoughts on your question is depending on the second reaping mentioned after the first reaping is not in connection to a 2nd passover . The two witnesses will be seen by all and the 144,000 witnessed sealed by God means they were trying to reach or give another chance.
I tend to think that the catching up is in heaven rolling away in the 6th seal and that the seals were beginning to open at the time the Holy Spirit was released in Acts while Peter explained what the people were witnessing in the street.
If this is true then when the 6th seal is opened (I believe the 5 th seal has been opened too) that many things happen at one time yet the wrath of the Lamb is the first 3 1/2 years and this might be the second passover before the wrath of God that is given to all who takes the mark and if so this could explain the second reaping being different than the first.
This is conjectures and I will not claim these are given as facts but I do feel a blessing in studies of revelation. And you can't understand revelation without Daniel, Isiah, Zachariah. .....

John had to be intelligent enough to write a Book that not only defines what happen to the 7 original churches and how the time line would play out. Amazing that only we as Christians can see clearly the Holy Word ad living then and now.

Only Our Heavenly Father knows for sure the ending of the time line for he created this revolving earth etc... but I think he would have written the words in the Bible plainly if he wanted all to know His secrets. However I think He has them written just right so that we as curious beings will seek Him. And when we do and are ready He reveals them.....
Seek and ye shall find...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, those were the moral laws, the Ten Commandments, and yet even after doing all of those he was not perfect

Amein !

So what then did Y'SHUA MESSIAH tell him (and all of His disciples too, along the way),

he had to do to be perfect ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Amazing that only we as Christians can see clearly the Holy Word ad living then and now.

Only Our Heavenly Father knows for sure the ending of the time line for he created

Wonderful in process (still ongoing), testimony in Y'SHUA of YHWH'S teaching you personally 'all along' as you pray and wait on Him and seek Him for all!
You learned by waiting on Him things that
so-called 'scholars' here reject and cannot learn even after 30 or 40 years of teaching ! (or education and training "as" a teacher).
I'll pm shortly if YHWH permits, there's one thing interesting to be revealed still.

 

[jamespyles]

I've pondered on this and studied it a little, but I figure I will put it out here to see what thoughts you all can offer.

So, Yeshua is our Passover Lamb, who died on Passover and took away the sins of all those that come to faith in Him. That's the Passover for the believer, right?

How then does Number 9 come into play?

If I am on a "long journey" in life to come to Yeshua, when is the opportunity missed and therefore in need of the "second Passover" opportunity?

Is that post-death some time? That would certainly contradict the vast majority of theologians...not that the Bible doesn't do that already on many other topics. I'm definitely learning to read it myself because most Chrisitian's theology and the Bible just don't line up. So please, can you offer every possible Scripture you have on the subject?

I realize that many of you errantly believe the "Old Testament" is outdated and we can ignore it. If you're that person, this question isn't for you. I would like to hear from those of you that consider yourselves observant of God's everlasting Torah.

I guess my boiled down question is when do we officially miss our first chance at participating in the "Passover lamb" that would then necessitate our second opportunity?

One way of looking at it is that Joseph of Arimathea, a high ranking Temple official, and Nicodemus buried Jesus right before the special Sabbath of the Passover feast. Since they'd touched a dead body and didn't have time to perform the ritual to cleanse themselves, they couldn't partake of the feast, so the Numbers 9 feast a month later would allow them to participate.

One thing, keep in mind the Passover sacrifice wasn't one that took away anyone's sins, so I think we all probably better take a look at the common Christian theology that ignores Jewish religion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

One thing, keep in mind the Passover sacrifice wasn't one that took away anyone's sins, so I think we all probably better take a look at the common Christian theology that ignores Jewish religion.

Rather ignore everything that is not in line and not in perfect harmony with YHWH'S WORD,
then
there is so much more LIFE, ABUNTANTLY, and of course, with much persecution!

 

[drayanna]

One way of looking at it is that Joseph of Arimathea, a high ranking Temple official, and Nicodemus buried Jesus right before the special Sabbath of the Passover feast. Since they'd touched a dead body and didn't have time to perform the ritual to cleanse themselves, they couldn't partake of the feast, so the Numbers 9 feast a month later would allow them to participate.

One thing, keep in mind the Passover sacrifice wasn't one that took away anyone's sins, so I think we all probably better take a look at the common Christian theology that ignores Jewish religion.

There is a connection to the Passover and salvation.

Meaning: the major Jewish spring festival that commemorates the liberation of the Israelites from Egyptian slavery, lasting seven or eight days from the 15th day of Nisan.

God sent Moses to save His people from Pharaohs refusal to let the Jewish people go to sacrifice. As not having the ability to get the forgiveness they needed God sent Mosses to plead there case.

In Jesus God sent His Son this time, that the Jewish people celebrated the salvation by Moses to freedom to give sacrifice, Jesus though changed it all for He was the sacrifice so we would today celebrate the sacrifice of the Lamb of God more than the Jewish people freed from Pharaoh.

 

[sparow]

I've pondered on this and studied it a little, but I figure I will put it out here to see what thoughts you all can offer.

So, Yeshua is our Passover Lamb, who died on Passover and took away the sins of all those that come to faith in Him. That's the Passover for the believer, right?

How then does Number 9 come into play?

If I am on a "long journey" in life to come to Yeshua, when is the opportunity missed and therefore in need of the "second Passover" opportunity?

Is that post-death some time? That would certainly contradict the vast majority of theologians...not that the Bible doesn't do that already on many other topics. I'm definitely learning to read it myself because most Chrisitian's theology and the Bible just don't line up. So please, can you offer every possible Scripture you have on the subject?

I realize that many of you errantly believe the "Old Testament" is outdated and we can ignore it. If you're that person, this question isn't for you. I would like to hear from those of you that consider yourselves observant of God's everlasting Torah.

I guess my boiled down question is when do we officially miss our first chance at participating in the "Passover lamb" that would then necessitate our second opportunity?

Normally one has one chance which is our life on earth. The only ones needing a second chance are the ones who have had their names removed from the book of life; we read about this in the letters to the seven churches; if ones name is removed from the book of life one can be given a new name which means starting from scratch, all previous rewards and stripes are lost.

 

[PropheticTimes]

Amein !

So what then did Y'SHUA MESSIAH tell him (and all of His disciples too, along the way),

he had to do to be perfect ?

FOLLOW HIM!

What did I win?