Where's the second chance Passover come in?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I've been leaning toward something during the 1000 year Kingdom here on Earth.

Simply read about it in Scripture - there is no contradiction in YHWH'S WORD - realizing nothing of His Word contradicts any other portion of His Word and does not require any VIOLENCE to any part of His Word,
and not
even any gentle twisting is permitted nor done! (as all the world and the carnal believers are led to trust and believe the ones with persuasive speach for more money or power or prestige ) ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Judaizers that the BIBLE was talking about was warning against Jews trying to force Gentile believers to A. Convert to be legally Jewish (proselyte) B. Jewish believers attempting to force Gentile believers to keep Rabbinic teachings that were optional.

Not quite (maybe not even close).

A rather long plumbing into roots of those things in such as where you were taught that (which might actually be short and easy/ quick/ if you were willing to tell),
or
digging out by the root the source of the errors whatever they are.... if YHWH permits.

The very short sweet aspect is WHO were they TRUSTING. (in Galatians, as revealed by YHWH)

 

[Keath]

I don't have any real opinions on this, but I'll throw out some ideas just for thoughts. Could it relate to the Millennial Temple (Ezekiel) in the future? Could it relate to a fulfillment of an event post 2nd coming during 1,000 years? Or even better, could it have had its fulfullment when the risen Christ finally got a chance to celebrate the passover with his disciples (that first passover he was being killed during the day on Nissan 14, when people were to slaughter their lambs for the passover, correct?)?

So that stirs another question in me; was the Last Supper, also a Passover Meal. When I read Moses, the Passover lamb was to be killed during the day (Nisan 14) and then eaten that night. At sunset, Nissan 15 and a sabbath would have started correct? It seems to me Jesus had to be crucified on Nissan 14 during the day; which makes the last supper in the evening after Nissan 13 (at sunset for the Last Supper became Nissan 14). If this is true, the Last Supper, may have had similarities to the Passover, but was not? So in that case, Jesus would have missed the actual passover meal as he was in the tomb. Would then the second passover have given him the opportunity to "fulfill all righteousness"?

 

[Aaron Rich]

YHWH'S WISDOM IS HIDDEN from most all the world ,
perhaps in things like that , or not.

Note that the topic you broached though is directly contrary and opposed to YHWH,
so it is not a possibility to even consider and should not be discussed amongst ekklesia*. (since it has long ago been ruled out, and even just by reading in english the BIBLE, it is clear, by revelation of JESUS to believers in Him (ALL in Harmony, ALL Scripture, ALL that YHWH Reveals, perfectly, in Him) ....

*especially where it may cause others to stumble, (like on this forum), who already are doubting, or not knowing YHWH'S WORD, or JESUS....
and
where, like on any forum open to the evil world, those heresies are abundantly present and being foisted upon the unwary both young and old.

I hope it's obvious that it certainly not my intention to cause anyone to stumble and I think that's why this forum is labeled for those that already have faith.

I don't think it's against His Word to explore the additional meanings. Perhaps I initially "broached" it incorrectly, but I think my second attempt certainly cleared that up. His Wisdom doesn't stay hidden for all time. Given the number of times that Paul said he was telling us something previously hidden, I think that's clear. God's Widsom is meant to be searched out and that happens in part by believers discussing it - hence this forum thread. Proverbs 25:2 seems fitting in this case.

If by my second attempt I have "broached" a heresy, by all means let me know. Trying to grow myself by asking others to point me toward resources that have already searched out these additional meanings certainly doesn't seem to be heresy - but I'm open to understanding how that understanding is misguided.

 

[Keath]

Obedience comes automatically when we abide in Christ. He has come to set us free from the yoke of slavery (the Laws of Moses), and if He sets us free we are free indeed. The entire NT is filled with warnings against "Judaizers", against Jewish Christians preaching that this-or-that law must be upheld and are labeled as "false teachers" which we are warned to stay away from.

Christ in us obeys YHWH's moral law, which must always be upheld.

I must agree with Jeff that the "second chance Passover" of Numbers 9 is not a foreshadowing of something to come, but rather a display of God's grace and mercy to those of OT times when it came to things beyond their control (i.e. tripping over/falling into a dead body, or some other happenstance uncleanliness).

I understand his question; the first passover among many other things was most definitely a foreshadowing of fulfilling events to come as well as firstfruits and pentecost; so then why not the second passover as well; I think this is a legitimate, reasonable question a believer could take interest in.

 

[Aaron Rich]

So that stirs another question in me; was the Last Supper, also a Passover Meal. When I read Moses, the Passover lamb was to be killed during the day (Nisan 14) and then eaten that night. At sunset, Nissan 15 and a sabbath would have started correct? It seems to me Jesus had to be crucified on Nissan 14 during the day; which makes the last supper in the evening after Nissan 13 (at sunset for the Last Supper became Nissan 14). If this is true, the Last Supper, may have had similarities to the Passover, but was not? So in that case, Jesus would have missed the actual passover meal as he was in the tomb. Would then the second passover have given him the opportunity to "fulfill all righteousness"?

OH!!! Keith I think you might be on to something here. I need to go search this out more.

 

[Aaron Rich]

Simply read about it in Scripture - there is no contradiction in YHWH'S WORD - realizing nothing of His Word contradicts any other portion of His Word and does not require any VIOLENCE to any part of His Word,
and not
even any gentle twisting is permitted nor done! (as all the world and the carnal believers are led to trust and believe the ones with persuasive speach for more money or power or prestige ) ...

I fully agree with the first part...you lost me on the second part.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I hope it's obvious that it certainly not my intention to cause anyone to stumble and I think that's why this forum is labeled for those that already have faith.

The label is not enforceable, and does not ever stop anyone from causing other to stumble, nor does it
prevent anyone in the world who has internet access from reading all the things here both what is true and what is in error/ false/ even anti-christ/
and
does not test nor challenge nor change nor guarantee any of the motives anywhere here
and
does not prevent darkness from coming
as
the Shining One did who deceived Havah (EVE)...

i.e. quite a hodgepodge .... !

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If by my second attempt I have "broached" a heresy, by all means let me know.

Any attempt at all to state, promote, or to justify a heresy, even without knowing , is still heresy. Like in the TORAH if someone sinned but did not know it,
later, when they found out about their sin,
TORAH instructs them what to do then.
(very similar if not the same as in Y'SHUA'S TRAINING of the disciples from the first century throughout history until He Returns) ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

a legitimate, reasonable question a believer could take interest in.

Not an interest in when a believer should first test any message BEFORE accepting it,
and Y'SHUA is completely faithful SHEPHERD as
also
YHWH is completely faithful to His children to prevent
heresies or forbidden fruit from hurting them/us.

The subject/ topic of universalism (everyone is free to sin now, and can be saved later after death, even without Jesus today) is not something unknown - it is similar to the deep teaching/ deep things of satan - which in REVELATION the believers are told not to be burdened with those.(something like that)

 

[Aaron Rich]

The label is not enforceable, and does not ever stop anyone from causing other to stumble, nor does it
prevent anyone in the world who has internet access from reading all the things here both what is true and what is in error/ false/ even anti-christ/
and
does not test nor challenge nor change nor guarantee any of the motives anywhere here
and
does not prevent darkness from coming
as
the Shining One did who deceived Havah (EVE)...

i.e. quite a hodgepodge .... !

I see your point why those that are searching would find their way in. I still fail to see how searching out deeper meaning would be harmful to them though. Deeper meaning is only going to bring more intimacy with our Groom. I'm convinced there is additional understanding to be had for the text in question, and that's what I'm trying to discern with the assistance of those in this conversation.

I will reiterate for anyone that is reading through this thread - if anyone offers an absolute answer to my question I will expect that answer to come with a plethora of verses to support it. Additional questions, postulations, or potential research routes are all something we should all research ourselves rather than accepting them as fact, fiction or otherwise.

 

[Aaron Rich]

An excellent article on the topic at the link below, though it is obviously not directed toward those that have accepted Yeshua. It's still has a lot of interesting thought behind the Scripture, and while I haven't read the entire article yet, I have not found any of the "heresies" some of you seem to be so worried about.

That said let me make this CLEAR for any of those non-believers finding there way in. The quoted article is not written with believers or searchers of Yeshua in mind.

Never Too Late

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I still fail to see how searching out deeper meaning would be harmful to them though.

You are most likely aware of dozens of traditions of demons or of men that pollute the minds of men and even when possible of believers! (strange as it 'seemed' before they were revealed as heresy - it was so devastating to find out how much the whole world is deceived and still growing in deception)....
Searching out deeper meaning in line with SCRIPTURE , and in line with YHWH'S WAY,
HIS Leading,
HIS guidance,
etc
is most wonderful and delightful and desired more than gold, yes more than much fine gold !

 

[Aaron Rich]

You are most likely aware of dozens of traditions of demons or of men that pollute the minds of men and even when possible of believers! (strange as it 'seemed' before they were revealed as heresy - it was so devastating to find out how much the whole world is deceived and still growing in deception)....
Searching out deeper meaning in line with SCRIPTURE , and in line with YHWH'S WAY,
HIS Leading,
HIS guidance,
etc
is most wonderful and delightful and desired more than gold, yes more than much fine gold !

Agreed! The matter of HEBREW hermeneutics on the text in question is still on the table though. I want help discovering the additional meaning that falls in line with Scripture. Any additional meanings suggested should come WITH Scriptural backing. Even then, I myself (and I hope everyone else) would pray on additional meanings that are suggested because so much of theology is the traditions of demons you mention. I'm really having a hard time understanding why you're against search out the deeper meanings of God's Word. He taught us, and indeed continues to teach us to do just that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm really having a hard time understanding why you're against search out the deeper meanings of God's Word. He taught us, and indeed continues to teach us to do just that.

Today, and Yesterday, and over the past years, the same heresy has been introduced again and again and again and again, and hidden, not straight up, not straight forward, but as if by disguise, with subterfuge.
Searching out the truth is WONDERFUL, but not trying to convince anyone of something unproven, proven false , something wrong, or something harmful.

i.e. like the link never too late(just a quick look/ subject to clarifying) , is like putting out a bowl of anti-freeze for the cats, and saying "this might be bad for you, so test it first!" yet they die if they drink it.
Or , putting on a link of 1001 man's traditions of serving demons,
but , oh, don't use the traditions,
it's just for testing or just for fun !

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have not found any of the "heresies" some of you seem to be so worried about.

Even a hundred years ago, the heresy was well known even by Lutherans in the LCMS, etc etc etc etc etc ....

So why or what purpose could you or anyone have for trying to re-introduce it ?

 

[PropheticTimes]

The heresy is purporting to think there is a second chance of eternal life if you pass up the One who has offered Himself ONCE for all. There was ONE Passover Lamb, the Lamb of God, there will not be a second one. There are no Scriptures that support this idea at all, which should be answer enough to anyone.

Learning Scriptural knowledge through other Scriptural knowledge is the not the issue here, it is trying to dig up what you seem to feel is some secret, gnostic knowledge of some secret hidden idea. If one of God's children did not put the blood on the door post before the angel of the LORD went by, there was death. There was no second chance, there was ONE chance, and after that, death.

 

[Keath]

The heresy is purporting to think there is a second chance of eternal life if you pass up the One who has offered Himself ONCE for all. There was ONE Passover Lamb, the Lamb of God, there will not be a second one. There are no Scriptures that support this idea at all, which should be answer enough to anyone.

Learning Scriptural knowledge through other Scriptural knowledge is the not the issue here, it is trying to dig up what you seem to feel is some secret, gnostic knowledge of some secret hidden idea. If one of God's children did not put the blood on the door post before the angel of the LORD went by, there was death. There was no second chance, there was ONE chance, and after that, death.

I don't think anyone is saying that; it is simply regarding historical fulfillment of Biblical feasts. Scripture includes a second opportunity to celebrate passover; that's a fact.

 

[PropheticTimes]

I don't think anyone is saying that; it is simply regarding historical fulfillment of Biblical feasts. Scripture includes a second opportunity to celebrate passover; that's a fact.

Indeed it is a fact. However, it was in the Feast of Passover, not the actual Passover. It was a preview of God's great grace and mercy that would be shown in His last Passover lamb, the Lamb of God. Had the second chance existed in regards to the actual Passover, that would certainly point to something of substance, but it does not.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't think anyone is saying that; it is simply regarding historical fulfillment of Biblical feasts. Scripture includes a second opportunity to celebrate passover; that's a fact.

No one was making a claim about that that SCRIPTURE was wrong, nor that it was against SCRIPTURE.(TORAH)
No one doubted that, as it is clearly written in SCRIPTURE.
No one challenged that, as it is clearly written in SCRIPTURE.

It was the seeking to obtain something contrary to SCRIPTURE, or even just looking like seeking to make a claim contrary to SCRIPTURE, that was and is challenged as being wrong.