Wherein I catch a professional YEC in a lie

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,372
Frozen North
✟329,323.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Asking IS NOT bating. You complain because you can't post any real evidence.

See? You just did it again. You're not asking, you're baiting.

And you are not willing to take 5 minuets to cut and paste the evidence for your links.

If you can't be bothered to click on a hyperlink, why should anyone be bothered to cut and paste on your behalf? Especially since you're not interested in evidence to begin with given the continually hand-waving dismissals you engage in.

You're just here for a fight, nothing else.

I looked at the evo links for 20 years and none have ever offered any real verifiable evidence.

Given the basic biology errors you've been corrected on already, I'm not surprised. Part of understanding the evidence requires first understanding the theory, which requires at least some understanding of biology. You haven't demonstrated the latter at all, nor any willingness to learn. So it's not surprising you wouldn't understand the evidence for evolution.

Asking is also not demanding.

But you're not asking.

An honest request looks like this:

"Hey do you guys have any evidence for why evolution is considered valid?"

"Sure, here are some sites to get you started."

"Cool, thanks. Hey, I was reading this one site and I'm not clear on this part, could you explain what they mean by...?"

"Sure, what they mean by that is this..."

Etc, etc.

That's what an honest discussion looks like. Not this, "you guys don't have any evidence for evolution, prove me wrong!" nonsense you keep posting.

You are the one being dishonest. You accuse me of things that are not true for just asking. You are upset because you can't provide any real scientific evidence.

I am neither upset nor being dishonest. I'm calling you on your own behavior which is rampantly apparent based on your own posts. If you can't be honest with yourself about this... well, that's up to you really.

The FACT that you are unwilling to cut and paste what you consider evidence reinforces that you can't.

See? This is more baiting. You're trying to draw me into a fight. I'm not interested though, since there's no point. I'm happy to discuss things with people honestly looking to learn, but you are not being honest in your request.

If you challenge me to post the evidence for what I believe, I will do it in the next post or admit I can't.

But I don't really care what you believe.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
890
103
91
Knoxville Tn.
✟70,085.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Widowed
I have posted nothing but verifiable evidence, and I could even walk you through how to perform experiments that verifies it. All you need to do is ask for it. Heck, some of the female only lizard species can be replicated by making the species they are derived from live in close proximity so that they inevitably breed together, so even that is easy to replicate.

Well? Have you any interest in actual experiments?

You have only presented what you consider evidence. You have NEVER included the HOW, it worked.

Instead of wandering all over the place, let's stick to one thing---present the evidence for natural selection.
 
Upvote 0

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
890
103
91
Knoxville Tn.
✟70,085.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Widowed
I don't want to shut you up, otherwise I'd put you on ignore. Post such as yours only highlight the ignorance and vacuity of the creationist position - which is a score for the "other side" i.e. reason and progress.



Oh, don't worry, we can all see the other side of the coin.....



No, the picture is merely an illustration, the evidence is freely available to anyone who can use google and is actually interested in learning.



Are they all different varieties/kinds? Because we KNOW that they all come from a common ancestor, that's a fact. If you're insisting they're different kinds you're admitting plants can cross the "kind" barrier. Nice one!

This is the usual "evidence" presented by the evos. We "know." Don't tell me you know, show me the evidence that makes it possible.

Saying their are separate and distinct "kinds" reinforces "after their kind." A scientific truth that is verified thousands of times every day and can't be falsified.

Saying all plant, bird, fish, animal, and human life all started from some kind of a single cell blob is beyond laughable.

They started out saying a simple cell. When the complexity of DNA was discovered, they had to walk that back the lala land of abiogenesis.

You have no idea what the first life form was or what it evolved into. The whole theology of the TOE started with a necessary guess and have been guessing ever since.
 
Upvote 0

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
890
103
91
Knoxville Tn.
✟70,085.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Widowed
Upvote 0

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
890
103
91
Knoxville Tn.
✟70,085.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Widowed
Wild cabbage became domesticated cabbage which then evolved into kale, cauliflower, broccoli, savoy cabbage, kohlrabi and brussel sprouts.

Will you ignore, deny or handwave that away?

I will until you show me HOW it is scientifically possible.

You evo present pictures and rhetoric as "evidence" They ain't.

Do you really not understand what constitutes evidence?
 
Upvote 0

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
890
103
91
Knoxville Tn.
✟70,085.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Widowed
You really need evidence for the simple concept of "those better equiped to survive or reproduce, have the most chance of surviving and reproducing"?


Seriously?

Surviving as the same kind, not as a different kind. reproducing as the kind they are. You don't even understand the concept of natural selection.

Seriously.
 
Upvote 0

Skreeper

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2017
2,471
2,683
30
Germany
✟91,021.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
This is the usual "evidence" presented by you evos. Pictures are not evidence. Do you never include the HOW is happens based on proven science?

The HOW is mutations causing the DNA to change. And someone probably already told you but there is no "proof" in science. Proof is for math and alcohol.
 
Upvote 0

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
890
103
91
Knoxville Tn.
✟70,085.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Widowed
False.

Just one example: Lenski's E.Coli experiment starting with 12 identical and genetically isolated E Coli populations.

Before generation 31.000, no population was capable of aerobic growth on citrate.
After generation 31.000, one of the 12 populations WAS capable of doing so and the mutations that made it possible have been identified.

So there you go.... off spring that acquired a capability regulated by genes that was not present in ancestors.

You may now begin your denial / special pleading about how this doesn't count for some mysterious reason.

You can't have a mutation of a gene not in the gene pool. The capability was caused by a mutation of a gene in the gene pool. That is what mutations do---alter characteristics. They do not , can not, change the species. That is no different than a mutation of the gene that causes skin pigmentation and the result is albinoism. When he kid becomes an albino, it does not change species and its kids may not be albinos.
 
Upvote 0

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
890
103
91
Knoxville Tn.
✟70,085.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Widowed
The HOW is mutations causing the DNA to change. And someone probably already told you but there is no "proof" in science. Proof is for math and alcohol.

Mutations NEVER change the species. They only alter a characteristic in the gene pool of the parents.

If there is no proof in science, one of the most ignorant things one can say about science, who do we KNOW there is more than one blood type?

How do you KNOW what type you have?

How do they know if they give you a different type you will die?

How do we KNOW all living things have DNA?

The do not give Nobel prizes for opinions.
 
Upvote 0

Skreeper

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2017
2,471
2,683
30
Germany
✟91,021.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Mutations NEVER change the species. They only alter a characteristic in the gene pool of the parents.

Maybe you should take a Biology 101 course since the above is nonsensical.

How do you KNOW what type you have?

Evidence, not proof.

How do they know if they give you a different type you will die?

Evidence, not proof.

How do we KNOW all living things have DNA?

Evidence, not proof.

Now I got a question for you:

How do you KNOW the universe wasn't created last Thursday with all of our memories of things that didn't actually happen.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,672
51,419
Guam
✟4,896,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
How do you KNOW the universe wasn't created last Thursday with all of our memories of things that didn't actually happen.
Because last Thursday, I got a late charge on my credit card bill. :eek:
 
Upvote 0

Bungle_Bear

Whoot!
Mar 6, 2011
9,084
3,513
✟254,540.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
I will until you show me HOW it is scientifically possible.
I've asked you before what you mean by "HOW" and you just mumbled incoherently and pretended that you'd given a sensible answer. So let's try again. Please provide a definition of the word "HOW".
Do you really not understand what constitutes evidence?
In reality? Pretty much every poster on this thread does. What you mean by evidence? I'm not sure even you could explain. So please, provide a definition of "evidence".
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟143,395.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
This is the usual "evidence" presented by you evos. Pictures are not evidence.

The thing depicted in the pictures is.
I'm sorry, I can't post an actual physical wild banana on this forum.

Do you never include the HOW is happens based on proven science?

Reproduce with modification, survive, repeat.


ps: in the case of these banana's, it's actually us humans that steered this evolution from the wild ugly thing into the beautiful and delicious chiquita banana.... by artificially selecting the ones with the most "meat" and the least seed. Those cultivated banana's, are our creation. We used the processes of natural evolution to artificially turn the wild banana into delicious fruit.

And we did the same with cabbage... from a single wild plant, we cultivated it into brocolli, brussels sprouts and many others.

There were no genetic engineers that changed the DNA of wild banana's such that it would change into delicious chiquita banana's.... The DNA changed on its own through descent with modification. The only difference with natural evolution is that we humans selected the breeding pairs for the next generation. Artifical selection, instead of natural selection.
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟143,395.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Surviving as the same kind, not as a different kind. reproducing as the kind they are.

In evolution, every individual ever born was of the same species as its parents.

Not really sure what you are on about with this "not as a different kind" thingy.

You don't even understand the concept of natural selection.

I just told you: the central idea of natural selection is that the "fittest" will have the highest chance of survival and reproduction. Where "fittest" doesn't mean "stronger, faster, taller" but rather "best adapted to the niche it inhabits". What "fit" means in any given environment, depends completely on that environment and the needs of the species. This collection of parameters and how they relate to the species, is generally referred to as "the selection pressure".

Seriously.

Indeed seriously.
Every post you make, exposes your ignorance on the theory.

Like your first remark in this post about those "different kinds".
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,672
51,419
Guam
✟4,896,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
ps: in the case of these banana's, it's actually us humans that steered this evolution from the wild ugly thing into the beautiful and delicious chiquita banana.... by artificially selecting the ones with the most "meat" and the least seed. Those cultivated banana's, are our creation. We used the processes of natural evolution to artificially turn the wild banana into delicious fruit.
Praise the LORD! :clap:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟143,395.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
You can't have a mutation of a gene not in the gene pool.

It seems kind of obvious that only existing things can mutate.
But you're changing your language now.

You said: An offspring can't acquire a characteristic not in the gene pool of its parents.

You didn't say "gene". You said "characteristic".
And the ability to digest a certain substance, certainly qualifies as a characteristic.

In the experiment I mentioned, the population could not do it before generation 31.000 and then could do it after generation 31.000. And the mutations that made it possible have been identified. The change also caused a population explosion, since suddenly it had access to a much greater food supply.

Having said that.... an organism CAN acquire a gene that isn't present in its parents.
All that needs to happen is a gene duplication. Now, the off spring has 1 gene more then its parents.

That is what mutations do---alter characteristics.

And adding new ones. Like the ability to digest citrate.

They do not , can not, change the species.

Speciation is inevitable over time. It's also been observed in the wild as well as the lab.
You seem to be suffering from the Ostrich Syndrom.

That is no different than a mutation of the gene that causes skin pigmentation and the result is albinoism. When he kid becomes an albino, it does not change species and its kids may not be albinos.

Speciation is a process that unfolds on the level of the population, not in individuals.
And it doesn't happen overnight either. It's a gradual process.
Had you informed yourself on the basics of the theory, you would have known that.


Always strange to see people feeling qualified to argue against an established scientific theory, while also being quite ignorant about what the theory actually says......
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟143,395.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Mutations NEVER change the species.

The accumulation of mutations that achieve fictation, do.
Speciation: a gradual process that unfolds in populations, not in individuals and not overnight.


If there is no proof in science, one of the most ignorant things one can say about science,

lol....

who do we KNOW there is more than one blood type?

That's a piece of data. An observation.
When we say that there is no proof in science, we are talking about explanations.
You can't prove explanations in science. You can only support them with evidence or falsify them.

So there is no "proof". Only evidence and disproof.
Perhaps you heared the phrase once: "science isn't in the business of proving things. it is rather in the business of disproving things..."


How do you KNOW what type you have?

How do they know if they give you a different type you will die?

How do we KNOW all living things have DNA?

All of them, just data/measurements/observations.
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟143,395.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Praise the LORD! :clap:

really?

The LORD's version of the banana:

upload_2018-1-20_15-39-43.png


And after humans were done with them:

upload_2018-1-20_15-40-22.png


I'ld rather say "praise human ingenuity"
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Bugeyedcreepy
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums