Wherein I catch a professional YEC in a lie

tas8831

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Medical doctor Elizabeth Mitchell writes, in an essay on the 'Answers in Genesis' site in a caption of a Tiktaalik artistic rendition (note the bolding and/or italics I added for emphasis in both quotes):


In fact, the evolutionary imagination accords this fish’s hind-parts so much power, they believe it was ready for “pelvic-propelled locomotion”1 across the terrestrial world and up the evolutionary tree.​

The 1 links to this article:

N. Shubin et al., “Pelvic girdle and fin of Tiktaalik roseae,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (13 January 2014)


wherein one finds this passage - the only passage in which one finds the word "propelled":


Tiktaalik reveals that features contributing to the trend toward pelvic-propelled locomotion in the tetrapodomorph stem began emerging in finned taxa before being enhanced in more derived digited forms. Indeed, this trend has deep roots or parallel trajectories: diverse lungfish, both fossil
and extant, have pectoral and pelvic girdles that are subequal in size (17).​



Why do professional creationists lie like this? Is it because they have brainwashed their target audiences into bowing to their perceived authority so it doesn't matter?

Or are most of them just incompetent and don't know any better?

This is not, sadly, a rarity. YEC Dr.David Menton had written commentary on the pelvic bones of Tiktaalik, declaring them insufficient for land-based locomotion. Problem - at the time he wrote the article, the pelvic bones had not yet been discovered.

YEC Dr. Jeff Tomkins wrote an essay declaring that humans and chimps are really only about 70% similar, and thus could not have a shared ancestry. It was soon discovered that he had done 2 things - that he had used a version of BLASTn with known problems, and that he had constrained the program to return only sequence matches of prescribed lengths that were 100% matches - so if the program found a sequence in human that matched chimp in 9 out of 10 bases, it would come back as 0% identical, virtually guaranteeing that what he found would have a lower % identity than other analyses. When confronted with these problems, Tomkins doubled down and called his critics names (this played out on Reddit, not sure I want to link to it).

There are many other examples - but one has to wonder why, if they are so sure that they are correct, why do they engage in these acts of dishonesty?

And if they are acts of incompetence, why should their followers trust them?
 

HereIStand

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Science isn't objective. That's true of YEC science and evolutionary science. As has been noted, "Every instance of scientific inquiry, every study, rests on a vast submerged set of political, moral, and ultimately metaphysical assumptions."

Furthermore, scientific "programs grow out of an extended dialogue within a community of scientists, or due to funding pressures, and either way are the product of the norms, values, and interests of broader society. Thus these norms and values shape not only what qualifies as evidence, but what evidence is even available to be considered in need of explanation." So, YEC science is a product of its community as is secular evolutionary science.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Science isn't objective. That's true of YEC science and evolutionary science. As has been noted, "Every instance of scientific inquiry, every study, rests on a vast submerged set of political, moral, and ultimately metaphysical assumptions."

Furthermore, scientific "programs grow out of an extended dialogue within a community of scientists, or due to funding pressures, and either way are the product of the norms, values, and interests of broader society. Thus these norms and values shape not only what qualifies as evidence, but what evidence is even available to be considered in need of explanation." So, YEC science is a product of its community as is secular evolutionary science.
I'd be interested to know what funding pressures affect, say, university or government research as opposed to say, creationist funded 'research'... science is of no use and progress is not possible in secular land if the research isn't done honestly, remember that all walks of life and religions engage in this 'secular evolutionary' science - Creationists who have a mandate before entering the lab are a very different story. They even announce their bias proudly beforehand.
 
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HereIStand

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I'd be interested to know what funding pressures affect, say, university or government research as opposed to say, creationist funded 'research'... science is of no use and progress is not possible in secular land if the research isn't done honestly, remember that all walks of life and religions engage in this 'secular evolutionary' science - Creationists who have a mandate before entering the lab are a very different story. They even announce their bias proudly beforehand.
Research for YEC groups would be based on private donations from those sympathetic to these groups. Some evolutionary science is publicly funded. Other funding comes from foundations or groups sympathetic to secular points of view. Availability of grant money, while not the sole determining factor, influences academic research interests.

YEC science and evolutionary science are biased. They should be. Scientists in either group are quite up front about this.
 
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HitchSlap

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Research for YEC groups would be based on private donations from those sympathetic to these groups. Some evolutionary science is publicly funded. Other funding comes from foundations or groups sympathetic to secular points of view. Availability of grant money, while not the sole determining factor, influences academic research interests.

YEC science and evolutionary science are biased. They should be. Scientists in either group are quite up front about this.
There is no such thing as YEC science. All professional YEC's do is badly interpret data to lie the the flock.

 
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HereIStand

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There is no such thing as YEC science. All professional YEC's do is badly interpret data to lie the the flock.
And secular scientists interpret the data based on secular pre-conceived notions shared by their followers. There's no dishonesty. Both sides are quite open about it.
 
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HitchSlap

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And secular scientists interpret the data based on secular pre-conceived notions shared by their followers. There's no dishonesty. Both sides are quite open about it.
Not even close.
 
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PsychoSarah

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And secular scientists interpret the data based on secular pre-conceived notions shared by their followers. There's no dishonesty. Both sides are quite open about it.
Having personal biases that could influence how data is interpreted is one thing. But the OP shows a creationist making claims about bones that weren't even discovered at the time. That is extremely intellectually dishonest and has nothing to do with budget limitations or data interpretation. He was making up an interpretation of data that didn't exist.
 
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Steve Petersen

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YEC science and evolutionary science are biased. They should be. Scientists in either group are quite up front about this.

You don't get a Nobel Prize for going along with the status quo.
 
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HitchSlap

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HereIStand

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You don't get a Nobel Prize for going along with the status quo.
Not going along with status quo could be a career risk for a YEC or evolutionary scientist, if that entails challenging underlining belief assumptions about creation or evolution held in either group.
 
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Lol. Says the guy who claims the SM is like religion.
No. The scientiic method is not like religion, but many scientists involved in junk science (e.g. evolution fundamentalists and global warming evangelists) defend it like a religion.

The scientists doing the actual work are, well, busy doing the actual work, not arguing about it on non-scientific forums.
 
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HitchSlap

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No. The scientiic method is not like religion, but many scientists involved in junk science (e.g. evolution fundamentalists and global warming evangelists) defend it like a religion.

The scientists doing the actual work are, well, busy doing the actual work, not arguing about it on non-scientific forums.
As I said, the SM seems to be a bit of a mystery for you.
 
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HitchSlap

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Not going along with status quo could be a career risk for a YEC or evolutionary scientist, if that entails challenging underlining belief assumptions about creation or evolution held in either group.
This is nonsense. YEC's aren't hired for scientific positions requiring appropriate degrees, not because they're YEC's, but because they aren't scientists.

YEC's do not conduct research.

Period.
 
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HitchSlap

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NO WAY! I dissected a frog in Jr. High, back in 1969! It was really cool. Smelled kinda funny, though. ;)
Well there you go, guess you're qualified to tell why evolution is a religion, then. ;)
 
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