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That's fine by me. You seem to recognize that the duty to worship remains. I don't think the "location" of worship has to be a particular temple, church, building, etc.In the old days before Christ, people had to go to temple to worship God. Since Christ, our bodies are the temple. Places, times, positions are not important anymore.
I do not think that is expressly taught in Sacred Scripture, if that is the nature of your question. I hold it as a matter of faith (and reason) that the Church made that change, but I do not think it is possible to prove it from the Bible.Where is the command from God to do that? Where did Jesus tell anyone of this change? Sounds like a fable Jesus warned us about Mat 15:3-9 Jesus kept the Sabbath even in death and went back to His Fathers work on the first day. His faithful followers kept the Sabbath after His death according to the commandment Luke 23:56 the apostles kept every Sabbath decades after the cross Acts 18:4, Acts 13:42-44 but the change in God's holy Sabbath day was something we were warned about Dan 7:25 and we see how history played out this prophesy perfectly.
Faith according to scripture is upholding the law, not breaking it. Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12 so I will have to respectfully disagree.I do not think that is expressly taught in Sacred Scripture, if that is the nature of your question. I hold it as a matter of faith (and reason) that the Church made that change, but I do not think it is possible to prove it from the Bible.
Because we are the temple, we worship God whenever we do what is right, when we stop doing what is wrong, whenever we pray, read the Word, grow in wisdom, whenever we give thanks for what we have, whenever we forgive people their debts/wrongdoings against us...That's fine by me. You seem to recognize that the duty to worship remains. I don't think the "location" of worship has to be a particular temple, church, building, etc.
But as far as times - what would you say the obligation is? To worship God all the time? That's even better. Once a week? Or "whenever we feel like it"?
"We uphold the law" in Romans 3:31 does not mean we obey its commands, it means we confirm its prophecy about faith (Romans 3:21) and its purpose - to show that people are sinful.Faith according to scripture is upholding the law, not breaking it. Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12
The law is a generic term and context tells us what its referring to. How does one profess faith, but not faith enough to do what He asks. Doesn't sound like saving faith to me. James 1:22 Rev 22:14 Faith is not passive, either is love to God 1 John 5:3"We uphold the law" in Romans 3:31 does not mean we obey its commands, it means we confirm its prophecy about faith (Romans 3:21) and its purpose - to show that people are sinful.
Rev 14:12 is not about the Law.
Not all commandments of God are from the Mosaic Law, for example "love your enemy" is the commandment of God outside the Mosaic Law.The law is a generic term and context tells us what its referring to.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
The Sabbath is a commandment of God and in all of scripture has not been abolished but kept faithfully by God's people.
Well, the obligation in the Catholic Church starts on Saturday before sunset, from what I understand (which is why we can fulfill our obligation by attending Mass on Saturday evening). Just to clarify. And obviously as a Catholic I believe that the Church has authority from God to do that. You disagree with that of course, which I respect.Faith according to scripture is upholding the law, not breaking it. Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12 so I will have to respectfully disagree.
Agree, the RCC takes credit for changing the Sabbath from Sabbath to Sunday, but not on God's authority, something Jesus warned us about Mat 15:3-9. Should we follow God, or man.
In scripture the Sabbath starts in the evening from Friday evening to Sabbath evening, so mass on Sabbath evening is not in line with the biblical Sabbath, that has never been abrogated in scriptures, but changed just as predicted in God's holy Word Dan 7:25, not by God. Also, the Sabbath is more than just an hour or two in church, it is a whole day of worship no secular work for the full day Isa 58:13Well, the obligation in the Catholic Church starts on Saturday before sunset, from what I understand (which is why we can fulfill our obligation by attending Mass on Saturday evening). Just to clarify.
But putting that aside, I can totally understand your view. I respect the SDA position, but I don't interpret Sacred Scripture the same way that you do. I do not interpret it such that having worship on a particular day is an immutable law that can never be changed. I view the particular day as a ceremonial aspect of the general commandment that is separate from the essential obligation to worship. I would guess that there are ceremonial aspects of the Jewish observation of the Sabbath that you do not practice, but please correct me if that is wrong.
Guess no one gave the Lord the memo that man ended His day of worship. Isa 66:22-23Not all commandments of God are from the Mosaic Law, for example "love your enemy" is the commandment of God outside the Mosaic Law.
The Sabbath was a commandment of God in the Mosaic Law era. The Law has ended, though.
"Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law...
So the law was our guardian until Christ came...
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."
Gal 3:23-25
Love your enemy is not a part of the law of Moses, Lev 19:18 is about neighbor, not enemy.Guess no one gave the Lord the memo that man ended His day of worship. Isa 66:22-23
The Ten Commandments is God's covenant, not the law of Moses Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and love your enemy is part of the law of Moses Leviticus 19:18
Take care
God bless you too. I agree with you that the obligation is more than just an hour or two in church actually. It is meant to be a whole day without work, if possible. That is the ideal, but I'm not sure if it was meant to be applied rigidly or legalistically if we look at the New Testament. I would also say that just because we see something occur in a particular way in the Bible, it doesn't necessarily make that an immutable law in every respect. I mean, we do not necessarily need to go to a lake or a natural body of water to be baptized, although that is how we see it done in Scripture. I would need to study it, but I would think that if we carefully studied the way that Jews carried out the Sabbath obligation in Scripture, that there are certain aspects of it that are not strictly practiced by SDA today. But that's a topic for further study I suppose. I think we can agree that the most important thing is a recognition of our continued duty to worship God, even though we might disagree on some of the details.In scripture the Sabbath starts in the evening from Friday evening to Sabbath evening, so mass on Sabbath evening is not in line with the biblical Sabbath, that has never been abrogated in scriptures, but changed just as predicted in God's holy Word Dan 7:25, not by God. Also, the Sabbath is more than just an hour or two in church, it is a whole day of worship no secular work for the full day Isa 58:13
Anway, thanks for the chat.
God bless!
Only if we don't believe Deut 4:13, Exo 34:28 Deut 5:22 Mat 15:3-9, 1 Cor 7:19, Rev 14:12, Rev 22:14-15, Rev 12:17, 1 John 5:3, Romans 13:9, Mat 5:19-30, Mat 19:17-19, Luke 4:16, 1 John 2:3-6, Mat 7:21-23, Acts 18:4, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 16:13, Luke 23:56, James 2:10-12, Romans 7:7, Hebrews 4:4, Hebrews 4:9-11 NIV, and a plethora of other scripture, but like usual we will have to agree to disagree and it will get sorted out soon enough.Love your enemy is not a part of the law of Moses, Lev 19:18 is about neighbor, not enemy.
The ten commandments were part of the law of Moses, but not the greatest commandments.
Lord has given us the memo that everything has changed and the Law has ended, through His own words and through the words of Paul.
Demonstrate how any three of these verses change anything about the clear words of Christ or of Paul.Only if we don't believe Deut 4:13, Exo 34:28 Deut 5:22 Mat 15:3-9, 1 Cor 7:19, Rev 14:12, Rev 22:14-15, Rev 12:17, 1 John 5:3, Romans 13:9, Mat 5:19-30, Mat 19:17-19, Luke 4:16, 1 John 2:3-6, Mat 7:21-23, Acts 18:4, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 16:13, Luke 23:56, James 2:10-12, Romans 7:7, Hebrews 4:4, Hebrews 4:9-11 NIV, and a plethora of other scripture, but like usual we will have to agree to disagree and it will get sorted out soon enough.
That's cool. Here, if you are suggesting that we always have an obligation to worship God in our daily actions, I totally agree.Because we are the temple, we worship God whenever we do what is right, when we stop doing what is wrong, whenever we pray, read the Word, grow in wisdom, whenever we give thanks for what we have, whenever we forgive people their debts/wrongdoings against us...
Well, I think the third commandment fairly indicates that there is a weekly obligation to observe the Sabbath. I think the question is whether that obligation has been abrogated. I think you would say that the obligation was abrogated, or that it was never applicable to Christians in the first place. I respect that view, even though I interpret the Bible differently with respect to that point.On the other hand, there is no specific instruction for a church how frequently or on what day to organize the worship together in a group. First Christians got together every day, but it was not a commandment.
I would say it depends on the situation and context, reasons. If by obligation you mean that it would be a sin not to go to a church or that it would be some kind of a salvation issue, then no, there is no such obligation.To clarify - is your position that the Christian has no obligation to engage in formal corporate worship? If a Christian decides that he will never engage in formal corporate worship - do you think that is OK? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that.
I think I understand your viewpoint. You would say that the ten commandments are not strictly binding on the Christian as law, correct?Love your enemy is not a part of the law of Moses, Lev 19:18 is about neighbor, not enemy.
The ten commandments were part of the law of Moses, but not the greatest commandments.
Lord has given us the memo that everything has changed and the Law has ended, through His own words and through the words of Paul.
Would you call a general refusal to worship God a sin?I would say it depends on the situation and context, reasons. If by obligation you mean that it would be a sin not to go to a church or that it would be some kind of a salvation issue, then no, there is no such obligation.
Yes, the law of Moses has ended, but the eternal moral principles still continue also in the New Covenant - its still wrong to steal or murder and similar.I think I understand your viewpoint. You would say that the ten commandments are not strictly binding on the Christian as law, correct?
I would agree to that generally but I think the fundamental moral precepts behind the 10 commandments (such as the obligation to worship God) are timeless and binding on the Christian. One might consider them part of the natural law that is binding on the heart of every man.
I mean, I think it is difficult to reduce everything down to "love they neighbor" and "treat thy neighbor as you would want to be treated" from a practical perspective, because the application of that can become very subjective. Some folks will conclude that aborting a child is a greater application of "love" than raising a child with a birth defect or raising a child in poverty. But if we adhere to the particular law "Thou shall not kill" then we make a proper moral decision.
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