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Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

Douggg

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Prove to me the AC was really killed.
The beast will be king 8 - having been king 7 of 7 kings in Revelation 17:10-11. They are kings, all of the same blood line, of the Roman Empire.

He (as the little horn person) will be king 7 (a leader of the EU). Then after he is killed and comes back to life, he will become the beast, king 8 (dictator of the EU). He will continue as king 8, the beast, for a short space of 42 months, Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Take note of verse 11. The phrase using these three verbs - "was, and is not, even he is" - means....

was - he was alive
is not - then dies
even he is - then come back to life.

A similar set of three verbs is used to Revelation 1:4 regarding Jesus...

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

is - presently alive
was - His first coming
is to come - His Second Coming

The same set of three verbs, regarding Jesus is in Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the set of verbs applying to the beast in Revelation 17:11, we know that the beast person will be killed and then comes back to life. The world will wonder after him for that reason. It will appear to the world as though the beast person has obtained power over death.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Ezekiel 28:1-10 is addressed to the prince of Tyre - a code name for the Antichrist person.
Ezekiel 28:12-19 is addressed to the king of Tyrus - a code name for Satan.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

In 2Thessalonians2:3-4, we read....

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

------------------------------------------------------


So Ezekiel 28-2 and 2Thessalonians2:4 is about the person sitting in the place reserved for God... making the claim of having achieved God-hood.

The beast will be king 8 - having been king 7 of 7 kings in Revelation 17:10-11. They are kings, all of the same blood line, of the Roman Empire.

He (as the little horn person) will be king 7 (a leader of the EU). Then after he is killed and comes back to life, he will become the beast, king 8 (dictator of the EU). He will continue as king 8, the beast, for a short space of 42 months, Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Take note of verse 11. The phrase using these three verbs - "was, and is not, even he is" - means....

was - he was alive
is not - then dies
even he is - then come back to life.

A similar set of three verbs is used to Revelation 1:4 regarding Jesus...

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

is - presently alive
was - His first coming
is to come - His Second Coming

The same set of three verbs, regarding Jesus is in Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the set of verbs applying to the beast in Revelation 17:11, we know that the beast person will be killed and then comes back to life. The world will wonder after him for that reason. It will appear to the world as though the beast person has obtained power over death.
First of all, let’s get the word “beast” understood. This is not the only definition, but I consider it the main definition: A beast is a fallen angel. Those that joined forces with Satan, are powerful and very corrupt angels. For our immediate purpose, their power is the key. They can indwell humans and direct their behavior, thoughts and speech.

The beast you cited in Rev 17 is NOT the AC. Rev 16 is when the bowls are poured. The 7th bowl occurs shortly before the end of the Trib. What occurs in Rev 17 is after the bowls are poured. The beast in Rev 17 knows his time is up. He goes to “destruction,” which means he goes to Hell. He has nothing to do with the AC.

You have failed to prove the AC is killed in the Trib. You can’t find any proof because his death and resurrection are faked.

The AC and the false prophet are indwelled by the beasts in Rev 13.
 
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Douggg

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First of all, let’s get the word “beast” understood. This is not the only definition, but I consider it the main definition: A beast is a fallen angel.
What are the bible verses that state a beast is a fallen angel ?
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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What are the bible verses that state a beast is a fallen angel ?
Ephesians 6:12 (NLT): For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

The AC and the false prophet are humans. They are indwelled by evil sprits from the heavenly places in Rev 13. Certainly, a human indwelled by an evil spirit can be called a beast. But, who's the beast? It's the certified evil spirit known as a fallen angel.
 
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Douggg

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Ephesians 6:12 (NLT): For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

The AC and the false prophet are humans. They are indwelled by evil sprits from the heavenly places in Rev 13. Certainly, a human indwelled by an evil spirit can be called a beast. But, who's the beast? It's the certified evil spirit known as a fallen angel.
Jeffrey, I don't see the word "beast" in that verse.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Jeffrey, I don't see the word "beast" in that verse.
Is every applicable word in every applicable verse? Is “rapture” in Rev 4:1 or 1 Th 4:17?

What’s the equivalent of an “evil spirit?”
 
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Douggg

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Is every applicable word in every applicable verse? Is “rapture” in Rev 4:1 or 1 Th 4:17?

What’s the equivalent of an “evil spirit?”
Jeffrey, unlike "rapture", the word beast is in Revelation 13. You claimed first that those beasts are demons. Then you claimed that those beasts are fallen angels, saying "First of all, let’s get the word “beast” understood. This is not the only definition, but I consider it the main definition: A beast is a fallen angel."

I asked you to show the bible verses that state a beast is a fallen angel. You have not been able to - because the bible does not say a beast is a fallen angel.

In Daniel 7:17....17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Four human kings, not originating in heaven as fallen angels, but originating from earth. The little horn person in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 will become the Antichrist and then later the beast-king of Revelation 13.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Jeffrey, unlike "rapture", the word beast is in Revelation 13. You claimed first that those beasts are demons. Then you claimed that those beasts are fallen angels, saying "First of all, let’s get the word “beast” understood. This is not the only definition, but I consider it the main definition: A beast is a fallen angel."

I asked you to show the bible verses that state a beast is a fallen angel. You have not been able to - because the bible does not say a beast is a fallen angel.

In Daniel 7:17....17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Four human kings, not originating in heaven as fallen angels, but originating from earth. The little horn person in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 will become the Antichrist and then later the beast-king of Revelation 13.
If they arise out out of the earth, they are indwelled by evil fallen angels. Rev 9:15-16 mentions the four angels and the army they will lead to fulfill the 6th trumpet.
 
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Douggg

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If they arise out out of the earth, they are under indwelled by evil fallen angels. Rev 9:15-16 mentions the four angels and the army they will lead to fulfill the 6th trumpet.
Jeffrey, the four angels in Revelation 9:14-15 are not called beasts.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Jeffrey, the four angels in Revelation 9:14-15 are not called beasts.
Rev 9:14-15 (ESV): saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind.

Doug, does every word you say is “not there” have to appear to know they apply to a certain verse? Is “harpazo” in Rev 4:1 or 1 Th 4:17? Regardless, are both verses about a harpazo?

How evil does a fallen angel have to be before you accept their being a beast? Those four angels were such beasts, they were “bound at the great river Euphrates” for thousands of years. They were, in a sense, in solitary confinement. What type of inmate is secluded in solitary confinement?
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Jeffrey, unlike "rapture", the word beast is in Revelation 13. You claimed first that those beasts are demons. Then you claimed that those beasts are fallen angels, saying "First of all, let’s get the word “beast” understood. This is not the only definition, but I consider it the main definition: A beast is a fallen angel."

I asked you to show the bible verses that state a beast is a fallen angel. You have not been able to - because the bible does not say a beast is a fallen angel.

In Daniel 7:17....17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Four human kings, not originating in heaven as fallen angels, but originating from earth. The little horn person in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 will become the Antichrist and then later the beast-king of Revelation 13.
Doug, what doesn’t make sense is to imply the AC and false prophet are not indwelled by fallen angels. The fake death and resurrection of the AC, and the extraordinary powers of the false prophet are sourced in the abilities of fallen angels.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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The beast will be king 8 - having been king 7 of 7 kings in Revelation 17:10-11. They are kings, all of the same blood line, of the Roman Empire.

He (as the little horn person) will be king 7 (a leader of the EU). Then after he is killed and comes back to life, he will become the beast, king 8 (dictator of the EU). He will continue as king 8, the beast, for a short space of 42 months, Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Take note of verse 11. The phrase using these three verbs - "was, and is not, even he is" - means....

was - he was alive
is not - then dies
even he is - then come back to life.

A similar set of three verbs is used to Revelation 1:4 regarding Jesus...

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

is - presently alive
was - His first coming
is to come - His Second Coming

The same set of three verbs, regarding Jesus is in Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the set of verbs applying to the beast in Revelation 17:11, we know that the beast person will be killed and then comes back to life. The world will wonder after him for that reason. It will appear to the world as though the beast person has obtained power over death.
Not true. The beast in Rev 17:11 originates from the bottomless pit just before the end of the Trib. That beast willingly goes to its destruction (Hell).

By contrast, the AC and false prophet are captured in Rev 19:20 during Armageddon.
 
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armchairscholar

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The beast will be king 8 - having been king 7 of 7 kings in Revelation 17:10-11. They are kings, all of the same blood line, of the Roman Empire.

He (as the little horn person) will be king 7 (a leader of the EU). Then after he is killed and comes back to life, he will become the beast, king 8 (dictator of the EU). He will continue as king 8, the beast, for a short space of 42 months, Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Take note of verse 11. The phrase using these three verbs - "was, and is not, even he is" - means....

was - he was alive
is not - then dies
even he is - then come back to life.

A similar set of three verbs is used to Revelation 1:4 regarding Jesus...

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

is - presently alive
was - His first coming
is to come - His Second Coming

The same set of three verbs, regarding Jesus is in Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the set of verbs applying to the beast in Revelation 17:11, we know that the beast person will be killed and then comes back to life. The world will wonder after him for that reason. It will appear to the world as though the beast person has obtained power over death.


I really appreciate how you’re digging into Revelation and pulling out those verb patterns to make sense of the beast and Jesus. Your breakdown of “was, is not, even he is” and comparing it to Jesus’ “is, was, is to come” is super thought-provoking. It’s like you’re showing how Scripture uses these phrases to point to big truths about life, death, and what’s coming.

I think you’re onto something with how the beast’s story mimics Jesus’ in a twisted way—like a counterfeit resurrection. It reminds me of how evil often tries to copy God’s work but always falls short. The way you tie the beast to the EU and the Roman Empire is an interesting angle, too. History shows us empires rise and fall, and Revelation seems to echo that cycle with a spiritual twist.

Your post makes me reflect on how God’s plan unfolds through time, and even the darkest figures, like the beast, can’t escape His sovereignty. It’s comforting to know Jesus’ return will set everything right. Curious—what made you connect the beast to the EU specifically? I’d love to hear more about your thoughts on that!
 
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Douggg

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How evil does a fallen angel have to be before you accept their being a beast?
In Revelation 4:6-10, there are four beasts that gave praise to the Lord Jesus Christ who sat upon His Throne, saying "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Being beasts - does that make the evil ? Being beasts - does that make them fallen angels ?

No.

Jeffrey, the bible does not call the fallen angels - beasts. The beasts in Revelation 13 are not fallen angels.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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In Revelation 4:6-10, there are four beasts that gave praise to the Lord Jesus Christ who sat upon His Throne, saying "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Being beasts - does that make the evil ? Being beasts - does that make them fallen angels ?

No.

Jeffrey, the bible does not call the fallen angels - beasts. The beasts in Revelation 13 are not fallen angels.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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In Revelation 4:6-10, there are four beasts that gave praise to the Lord Jesus Christ who sat upon His Throne, saying "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Being beasts - does that make the evil ? Being beasts - does that make them fallen angels ?

No.

Jeffrey, the bible does not call the fallen angels - beasts. The beasts in Revelation 13 are not fallen angels.
The use of the word “beast” in Rev 4:6-10 is known to be a whopping error in translation. The applicable translation is “living creatures,” as found in Rev 4:6 (ESV): … And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind:

There is no respectable use of “beast” among the angels and related heavenly personnel.
 
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Douggg

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Your post makes me reflect on how God’s plan unfolds through time, and even the darkest figures, like the beast, can’t escape His sovereignty. It’s comforting to know Jesus’ return will set everything right. Curious—what made you connect the beast to the EU specifically? I’d love to hear more about your thoughts on that!
Hi armchairscholar, I see that you live in Berlin. I live here in the USA.

When the EU reaches its final form under the beast-king's rule, in the middle of the 7 year 70th week, it is likely that the USA and Canada will be allies with the EU.

How do I connect the beast-king with the EU ?

It is because...

1. in Daniel 9:26-27, the prince who shall come (who eventually becomes the beast-king) will be from the people who destroyed the temple and city - i.e. the Romans back in 70 AD.

2. in Daniel 7:23-24. the little horn end times person will emerge out of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, the kingdom with iron teeth, nails of brass (Daniel 7:19).

3. in Daniel 8:9 the little horn end times person heads south and east toward Israel with a strong army.

So putting all of those things together, it appears that the EU is the manifestation of the Roman Empire in the end times. The EU collectively is certainly powerful, militarily, politically, economically. Although some nations of the EU are stronger than other nations in the EU.

Interestingly, the beginning roots of the EU was as the European Economic Community founded by the treaty of Rome, 1957.

---------------------------------------------------

The development of the person to eventually become the beast king is that his biblical emergence is as the little horn - leader over ten king (leaders). We don't know for certain specifically how that is going to come together. My thoughts are that the little horn person will be over a panel of ten EU leaders - probably related to defense.

Once the person gets established as the little horn, the Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 will threaten to attack Israel.

Since the little horn person, in Daniel 8:9, heads south and east toward Israel with a strong army - I think what is going to happen is that the little horn person is going to mobilize a EU army in Greece - to attack as a deterrent.

Well, if so, it will not work, and Gog/Magog (Russia and a group of Muslim nations including Iran) attacks Israel anyway. Only for their armies to be supernaturally destroyed by God in Ezekiel 39:1-8.

In the aftermath, the little horn, as the prince that shall come will move his EU army into the middle east, on the premise of being a peace keeper for the region. Daniel 8:25, it says he will destroy many by peace. Perhaps by putting down any residue uprisings by Muslims in the region - when the Jews remove the Dome of the Rock and start building their temple.

The little horn person will be a Jew - because to become the Antichrist, king of Israel, thought-to-be messiah, the person must be a Jew.

The Jews (Judaism) will think that the little horn, prince that shall come, is their long awaited messiah. Two of the traits of the Jews expect of the messiah is that (1) he will be a charismatic leader (2) will have great military ability. I got that information from the Judaism 101 site, about the messiah. Mashiach: The Messiah - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

(I am keeping an eye on Zelensky as possibly being that person. Too early to tell for certain)

The false prophet of Revelation 13, will initially be thought by the Jews as being Elijah, who they expect to be a part of the start up to the messianic age. The false prophet will declare that the person is the messiah and will anoint him the king of Israel. The Jews (Judaism) believe that the messiah will be anointed the king of Israel by a "known" prophet, to use their words.

Once anointed the king of Israel, the person becomes the Antichrist.

He will begin the 7 year 70th week by confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant (not a peace treaty) by the process that Moses stipulated in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, to be done on a 7 year cycle. Which is basically a big speech to nation of Israel, that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. That speech will restart the 7 year cycle that has not been done in modern times. The 7 years will take place as the 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9.

About 3 years into the 7 years, the world will be saying peace and safety up to that time thinking it has entered the messianic age (1Thessalonians5:1-3), when the Antichrist does the unthinkable of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood (the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13) described in 2Thessalonians2:4.

God, angered by the outlandish claim, in Ezekiel 28:1-10 will have the revealed man of sin assassinated. Then after a few days of his soul being in hell, mocked, God in disdain for the person will return his soul to his body bringing the person back alive, Isaiah 14:18-20. As part of God's overall plan to bring the Jews to Jesus, and to end Satan and his angels influence over mankind and the nations.

Upon coming back to life, the person becomes the beast-king of Revelation 13, the mortally wounded but healed head on the beast out of the sea. The beast out of the sea will be the beast kingdom made up of nations comprising the end times manifestation of the Roman Empire - the E.U.

In Revelation 17:17, the ten kings, i.e. the ten leaders of the EU, will hand their kingdom, the EU, for the beast to be king of it, i.e. dictator.

Lastly, I want to make it clear that I not saying anything derogatory toward anyone in the EU who seeks improve the lives of its citizens, and the many of my brothers and sisters in Christ who live in the EU. I am just expounding on how things will develop as things fall into place from a bible prophecy perspective.

Here is a chart I made of the five stages that the little horn person will go through....


5 stages.jpg
 
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Douggg

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The use of the word “beast” in Rev 4:6-10 is known to be a whopping error in translation. The applicable translation is “living creatures,” as found in Rev 4:6 (ESV): … And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind:
Sounds reasonable.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Hi armchairscholar, I see that you live in Berlin. I live here in the USA.

When the EU reaches its final form under the beast-king's rule, in the middle of the 7 year 70th week, it is likely that the USA and Canada will be allies with the EU.

How do I connect the beast-king with the EU ?

It is because...

1. in Daniel 9:26-27, the prince who shall come (who eventually becomes the beast-king) will be from the people who destroyed the temple and city - i.e. the Romans back in 70 AD.

2. in Daniel 7:23-24. the little horn end times person will emerge out of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, the kingdom with iron teeth, nails of brass (Daniel 7:19).

3. in Daniel 8:9 the little horn end times person heads south and east toward Israel with a strong army.

So putting all of those things together, it appears that the EU is the manifestation of the Roman Empire in the end times. The EU collectively is certainly powerful, militarily, politically, economically. Although some nations of the EU are stronger than other nations in the EU.

Interestingly, the beginning roots of the EU was as the European Economic Community founded by the treaty of Rome, 1957.

---------------------------------------------------

The development of the person to eventually become the beast king is that his biblical emergence is as the little horn - leader over ten king (leaders). We don't know for certain specifically how that is going to come together. My thoughts are that the little horn person will be over a panel of ten EU leaders - probably related to defense.

Once the person gets established as the little horn, the Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 will threaten to attack Israel.

Since the little horn person, in Daniel 8:9, heads south and east toward Israel with a strong army - I think what is going to happen is that the little horn person is going to mobilize a EU army in Greece - to attack as a deterrent.

Well, if so, it will not work, and Gog/Magog (Russia and a group of Muslim nations including Iran) attacks Israel anyway. Only for their armies to be supernaturally destroyed by God in Ezekiel 39:1-8.

In the aftermath, the little horn, as the prince that shall come will move his EU army into the middle east, on the premise of being a peace keeper for the region. Daniel 8:25, it says he will destroy many by peace. Perhaps by putting down any residue uprisings by Muslims in the region - when the Jews remove the Dome of the Rock and start building their temple.

The little horn person will be a Jew - because to become the Antichrist, king of Israel, thought-to-be messiah, the person must be a Jew.

The Jews (Judaism) will think that the little horn, prince that shall come, is their long awaited messiah. Two of the traits of the Jews expect of the messiah is that (1) he will be a charismatic leader (2) will have great military ability. I got that information from the Judaism 101 site, about the messiah. Mashiach: The Messiah - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

(I am keeping an eye on Zelensky as possibly being that person. Too early to tell for certain)

The false prophet of Revelation 13, will initially be thought by the Jews as being Elijah, who they expect to be a part of the start up to the messianic age. The false prophet will declare that the person is the messiah and will anoint him the king of Israel. The Jews (Judaism) believe that the messiah will be anointed the king of Israel by a "known" prophet, to use their words.

Once anointed the king of Israel, the person becomes the Antichrist.

He will begin the 7 year 70th week by confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant (not a peace treaty) by the process that Moses stipulated in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, to be done on a 7 year cycle. Which is basically a big speech to nation of Israel, that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. That speech will restart the 7 year cycle that has not been done in modern times. The 7 years will take place as the 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9.

About 3 years into the 7 years, the world will be saying peace and safety up to that time thinking it has entered the messianic age (1Thessalonians5:1-3), when the Antichrist does the unthinkable of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood (the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13) described in 2Thessalonians2:4.

God, angered by the outlandish claim, in Ezekiel 28:1-10 will have the revealed man of sin assassinated. Then after a few days of his soul being in hell, mocked, God in disdain for the person will return his soul to his body bringing the person back alive, Isaiah 14:18-20. As part of God's overall plan to bring the Jews to Jesus, and to end Satan and his angels influence over mankind and the nations.

Upon coming back to life, the person becomes the beast-king of Revelation 13, the mortally wounded but healed head on the beast out of the sea. The beast out of the sea will be the beast kingdom made up of nations comprising the end times manifestation of the Roman Empire - the E.U.

In Revelation 17:17, the ten kings, i.e. the ten leaders of the EU, will hand their kingdom, the EU, for the beast to be king of it, i.e. dictator.

Lastly, I want to make it clear that I not saying anything derogatory toward anyone in the EU who seeks improve the lives of its citizens, and the many of my brothers and sisters in Christ who live in the EU. I am just expounding on how things will develop as things fall into place from a bible prophecy perspective.

Here is a chart I made of the five stages that the little horn person will go through....
My friend, in all due respect, 1 Th 5:2-3 occur on day 1 of the 7-year Trib. Here’s 1 Th 5:2-3 (ESV): For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Verse 2 is about the Trib starting. Verse 3 happens immediately after the start. This indicates that the world will be peaceful before the Trib starts. There’s a general direction toward that now with ongoing negotiations to end the Russia-Ukraine war. Truly, if the Russia-Ukraine war permanently ends, 1 Th 5:1-3 are on track for fulfillment within two or three years.

The midpoint is total chaos. The AC enters the temple (Matt 24:15) and bedlam immediately begins (Matt 24:16). Rev 11:2 and Rev 12:13 are also fulfilled here as Satan has already been thrown to Earth (Rev 12:7-9).
 
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Douggg

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My friend, in all due respect, 1 Th 5:2-3 occur on day 1 of the 7-year Trib. Here’s 1 Th 5:2-3 (ESV): For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Verse 2 is about the Trib starting. Verse 3 happens immediately after the start. This indicates that the world will be peaceful before the Trib starts. There’s a general direction toward that now with ongoing negotiations to end the Russia-Ukraine war. Truly, if the Russia-Ukraine war permanently ends, 1 Th 5:1-3 are on track for fulfillment within two or three years.

The midpoint is total chaos. The AC enters the temple (Matt 24:15) and bedlam immediately begins (Matt 24:16). Rev 11:2 and Rev 12:13 are also fulfilled here as Satan has already been thrown to Earth (Rev 12:7-9).
Jeffrey, 1Thesslaonians5:2 is about the day of the Lord beginning unexpectedly like a thief in the night, at a time when the world is saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:3.

The day of the Lord, also called the day of Christ in 2Thessalonians2:2, is triggered when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act (Daniel 8:13) described in 2Thessalonians2:4.

The transgression of desolation act of the Antichrist revealing himself as the man of sin triggers the beginning of the day of the Lord. Sometime around 3 years into the 7 years.

....a little later... (we are not informed how much later, I guess about month later)....

...once the revealed man of sin becomes the beast-king, the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king (Revelation 13:14) will be made and placed on the temple mount, triggering the great tribulation of Matthew 24:15-21.

So....
transgression of desolation triggers the day of the Lord. (sometime around 3 years into the 7 years)
abomination of desolation triggers the great tribulation. (on day 1185 of the 7 years)

What "desolation" means in those two terms is that the temple will be made desolate from worship of the One True God. i.e. the daily sacrifice will be stopped and all priestly temple ordinances activities stopped.

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When will the abomination of desolation be set up on the temple mount ?

From Daniel 12:11-12, 1335 days before Jesus returns. So we subtract 1335 from day 2520, the last day of the seven years, to get day 1185. In the middle part of the seven years, but not on the exact day 1260 midpoint.

Here are couple of timeline charts of involving when the abomination of desolation, AoD, is setup.


rapture window.jpg



two witnesse first half.jpg
 
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