Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[BABerean2]

Quit derailing my thread.......................

Just trying to keep them honest.

All man-made Bible doctrines are revealed not by the scripture their proponents quote, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make them work.

The same is true of the definition of Partial-Preterism.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not according to Daniel.

Only to modernist dispensational futurism.
From Dr. Andrew Carnie's acclaimed Syntax: A Generative Introduction :
"Antecedent: An NP that gives its meaning to another NP."
An NP is a Noun Phrase, encompassing nouns, pronouns, and their phrasal equivalents.
Thus a Noun Phrase can be the antecedent of a following Noun.
Thus the Noun Phrase "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25 is the antecedent of the following Noun "prince" in Daniel 9:26.

Have you tossed your grammar textbook yet?
Better do so quickly before it misleads you further.

Are those Nazi armies found in Scripture?
Are those Russian armies found in Scripture?
Are those Chinese armies found in Scripture?

Please try to stay on topic.

Additionally, good grammar and good spelling are inextricably associated.

Please try to do better.

Are those Nazi armies found in Scripture?
Are those Russian armies found in Scripture?
Are those Chinese armies found in Scripture?

Hmmm.
Do they still use the denarius in addition to horses and chariots for battle?

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "a measure of grain/wheat a denarius and three measures of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

Revelation 18:13 "chariots, horses, bodies and souls of men"

Revelation 9:9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots<716> with many horses running into battle.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16] and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble 13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep.
and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.
========================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derive
==============

 

[keras]

There is a Sanctuary and Holy City mentioned in Revelation 11:2 [Which I view as 1st century Herod's Temple]

Revelation 11:1-3 simply does not fit in the 1st century.
Where were the 2 Witnesses for the exact specified 42 month/ 1260 day period?

There is really no doubt that the gap of 2000 years between the Crucifixion of Jesus and His Return is a reality; we have experienced it!
Its nearly over now and we can expect all the dramatic events as prophesied to happen soon, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.
Put aside your notions of a past fulfilment and be ready to stand firm in your faith, thru all that must happen.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Revelation 11:1-3 simply does not fit in the 1st century.
Where were the 2 Witnesses for the exact specified 42 month/ 1260 day period?

There is really no doubt that the gap of 2000 years between the Crucifixion of Jesus and His Return is a reality; we have experienced it!
Its nearly over now and we can expect all the dramatic events as prophesied to happen soon, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.
Put aside your notions of a past fulfilment and be ready to stand firm in your faith, thru all that must happen.

These witnesses come to mind.
Pentecost came later..........

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

Acts 1 and Revelation 11 Ascending in cloud

 

[keras]

These witnesses come to mind.
Pentecost came later..........

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

Acts 1 and Revelation 11 Ascending in cloud

Making this statement to the Apostles, which they did fulfil, fit the Revelation 11:1-3 prophecy about two men who will witness the Gospel only in Jerusalem, for only 42 months, is simply preposterous and quite unbelievable.
At that Pentecost, the holy Spirit did fall upon them, but not to the extent prophesied in Joel 2:28-29; yet to happen.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
These witnesses come to mind. Pentecost came later..........
Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Making this statement to the Apostles, which they did fulfil, fit the Revelation 11:1-3 prophecy about two men who will witness the Gospel only in Jerusalem, for only 42 months, is simply preposterous and quite unbelievable.
At that Pentecost, the holy Spirit did fall upon them, but not to the extent prophesied in Joel 2:28-29; yet to happen.

Acts 1:8 is actually similar to what Jesus spoke to them in Matt 10:

Mat 10:23
“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Is Jesus talking just about the land of Israel or the world in this verse? The "world" of course would also be simply preposterous and unbelievable.

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end<2078> of the earth/land<1093>.”

2078. eschatos a superlative probably from 2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):--ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost.

1093. ge contracted from a primary word;
soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

 

[sparow]

There is a Sanctuary and Holy City mentioned in Revelation 11:2 [Which I view as 1st century Herod's Temple]

Let's look closer at the Greek in these verses of Matt, Mark, Luke and Revelation......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:15 Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared<4483> thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood<2476> in a place, holy<40> (the one-reading<ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be understanding... 16 then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Mark 13:14 `Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding<1163>, (the one-reading< ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be minding/understanding), then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/ana-ginwskwn/ἀναγινώσκων <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written, that the time nigh.
=================================
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded<2124> by war-troops<4760>, then be knowing that come nigh<1448> desolating<2050> of Her

However, Luke does not mention it in his Gospel, but a Sanctuary and Court of the Priest is mentioned in Revel 11:2.................

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations
and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months

The symbolism of Rev..11:1 tricks me a bit. John is asked to measure something that did not Physically exist; the Temple was destroyed 15 years before Revelation was written. Gentiles treading the temple mound under foot begins with the advent of Mohammad; from the first Islamic shrine on the Temple mount until the six day war is 1260 years; coincidentally from the setting up of the Papacy until Napoleon put the Pope in prison was 1260 years also; and the time the two witness prophesied in sack cloth was 1260 years.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The symbolism of Rev..11:1 tricks me a bit. John is asked to measure something that did not Physically exist; the Temple was destroyed 15 years before Revelation was written. Gentiles treading the temple mound under foot begins with the advent of Mohammad; from the first Islamic shrine on the Temple mount until the six day war is 1260 years; coincidentally from the setting up of the Papacy until Napoleon put the Pope in prison was 1260 years also; and the time the two witness prophesied in sack cloth was 1260 years.

Speculating on when Revelation was visioned/written is OT for this thread so it is irrelevant.

I view 1st century 70AD Jerusalem in Revelation so I don't regard when it was written/visioned

For the preterist view of the dating it, just google "date/dating of Revelation preterist"
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&sxsrf=ACYBGNTE3F23xApHV1zs8p999O5JvBT6qA:1572386514519&ei=0ra4Xc6fH47IsQXUkIbwAg&q=dating+of+revelation+preterist&oq=dating+of+revelation+preterist&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.4588956.4600706..4602047...3.8..0.150.3345.18j15......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i131j35i39j0i67j0i131i67j0i20i263j33i22i29i30j33i160j0i8i13i30.SGFteHdYt_I&ved=0ahUKEwjO0JadvMLlAhUOZKwKHVSIAS4Q4dUDCAo&uact=5
=================
Some threads:

Partial Preterism and dating revelation

At this stage I feel that partial Preterism seems to fit best in an understanding of scripture. There are a few things, however, I can't explain which are troubling me.

One of those is determining the date that revelation was written, ie pre 70AD or around 95AD. It is concerning me because if I read it and think it is prophesising about the temple destruction, if it is written in 95AD that would be in the past. Also, I am yet to be convinced that the arguments and counter arguments for an early authorship hold much water. There seems to be better evidence for the later date.

So my question is... For those amongst us who are partial preterists or similar, is the dating of revelation a game changer? If I can't get an answer, I will rethink my doctrine for sure.

Revelation Written in Nero's Reign

JohannineScholar said: ↑
A recent discussion in the eschatology forum saw the claim that Revelation was written during Domitian's reign. Only one unambiguous early writer (before Eusebius) was mentioned--Victorinus. The true state of the matter is as follows.

Domitianic Dating:
Victorinus (third/fourth century)
Eusebius (fourth century)
Jerome (fourth/fifth century)

Neronian Dating:
The Acts of John (second century)
Irenaeus (probable) (second century)
Tertullian (second/third century)
Clement of Alexandria (third century)
Tyconius (fourth century)
Syriac version of Revelation (perhaps as early as fourth century)
The Syriac History of John (perhaps late fourth century)
The Acts of John by Prochorus (fifth century)

Claudian Dating:
Muratorian Canon (second/third century)
Epiphanius (fourth century)

Date of Revelation

Just The Facts said: ↑
Hello

Partial Preterist post everywhere trying to convince all that it is all about the destruction of Jerusalem. What they rarely say unless pressed, is that their whole theory kind of hinges on the book of Revelation not being penned in 96 AD as 99.9% of Scholars believe but is from an earlier date of 66 AD. So therefore it could be all about the future destruction of Jerusalem.

What they simple ignore is that this book is written to seven Gentile Churches in Asia Minor about what was going to happen to them and their churches their cities from that date through the years.

Book Of Revelation Written In 96AD, Proves The Gentile Fulfillment False!




.

 

[sparow]

Speculating on when Revelation was visioned/written is OT for this thread so it is irrelevant.

I view 1st century 70AD Jerusalem in Revelation so I don't regard when it was written/visioned

For the preterist view of the dating it, just google "date/dating of Revelation preterist"
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&sxsrf=ACYBGNTE3F23xApHV1zs8p999O5JvBT6qA:1572386514519&ei=0ra4Xc6fH47IsQXUkIbwAg&q=dating+of+revelation+preterist&oq=dating+of+revelation+preterist&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.4588956.4600706..4602047...3.8..0.150.3345.18j15......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i131j35i39j0i67j0i131i67j0i20i263j33i22i29i30j33i160j0i8i13i30.SGFteHdYt_I&ved=0ahUKEwjO0JadvMLlAhUOZKwKHVSIAS4Q4dUDCAo&uact=5
=================
Some threads:

Partial Preterism and dating revelation


Revelation Written in Nero's Reign

Date of Revelation
Book Of Revelation Written In 96AD, Proves The Gentile Fulfillment False!




.

The destruction of the Temple in 70 AD was the fulfilment of Jesus's own prophesy and judgement and as far as I can tell is not testable against the OT, The book of Revelation (the day of the Lord) is testable against the OT; it's prophesies and concepts are brought forward.

70 AD was a sign that is about to come but not included in his coming.

“Come hither, and I will show you things which must be here after.” What follows is the description of that Great and terrible day of the Lord, which also equates to the second coming of Christ.

 

[keras]

Acts 1:8 is actually similar to what Jesus spoke to them in Matt 10:

Mat 10:23
“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Is Jesus talking just about the land of Israel or the world in this verse? The "world" of course would also be simply preposterous and unbelievable.

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end<2078> of the earth/land<1093>.”

Work in progress.
Nothing to do with the 2 men who will preach in Jerusalem during the final 3 1/2 years of this age.

Why not believe the plain Words of scripture? Trying to fit past and current things into the end times, is a fruitless exercise.

 

[FredVB]

Hmmm.
Do they still use the denarius in addition to horses and chariots for battle?

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "a measure of grain/wheat a denarius and three measures of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

Revelation 18:13 "chariots, horses, bodies and souls of men"

Revelation 9:9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots<716> with many horses running into battle.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16] and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble 13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep.
and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.
========================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derive.

In the vision given to John the writer there was use of what was familiar to him, to communicate meaning of value. Consider that in the vision which had him told of the great city, the harlot Mystery Babylon, in Revelation 18, this with the characteristics shown corresponds to all large cities in the history of civilization. All are worthy of the coming collapse, and signs show that it is certain.

 

[iamlamad]

Work in progress.
Nothing to do with the 2 men who will preach in Jerusalem during the final 3 1/2 years of this age.

Why not believe the plain Words of scripture? Trying to fit past and current things into the end times, is a fruitless exercise.

" Trying to fit past and current things into the end times, is a fruitless exercise" Keras, I love the way you put things at times!

 

[iamlamad]

The symbolism of Rev..11:1 tricks me a bit. John is asked to measure something that did not Physically exist; the Temple was destroyed 15 years before Revelation was written. Gentiles treading the temple mound under foot begins with the advent of Mohammad; from the first Islamic shrine on the Temple mount until the six day war is 1260 years; coincidentally from the setting up of the Papacy until Napoleon put the Pope in prison was 1260 years also; and the time the two witness prophesied in sack cloth was 1260 years.

I asked the Lord about Rev. 11, 1 & 2. He told me (I did not hear words) that the man of sin must first ARRIVE in Jerusalem if he is to enter the temple in Jerusalem. Verses 1-2 show his arrival in Jerusalem with his Gentile army. He will make Jerusalem his headquarters for 42 months, so the Gentiles STAY: and trample the city for 42 months. I can't prove this is about the man of sin, but neither can anyone prove it is not. It makes good sense to me. How could the man of sin enter the temple in Jerusalem unless he first GETS to Jerusalem.

Some think the new Jewish temple will sit right beside the Muslim temple, so the courtyard would be Muslim ground. I don't know about that. What I am convinced of is that Revelation is about the FUTURE 70th week that will end this age.

 

[keras]

Some think the new Jewish temple will sit right beside the Muslim temple, so the courtyard would be Muslim ground. I don't know about that. What I am convinced of is that Revelation is about the FUTURE 70th week that will end this age.

No doubt; there WILL be a new Temple on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem.

But it will NOT be 'Jewish'. The Lord spoke to all the Israelites, Ezekiel 43:10, who are far more than just the few Messianic Jews.
Zechariah 6:15 says that men from far away will come to build the Temple.....
Isaiah 56:1-8 tells it how it will be.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No doubt; there WILL be a new Temple on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem.

No doubt that you are wrong. You got the wrong temple. It's New Testament congrgation of Israel that Christ confirmed a covenant with. Not antichrist nor, physical temple in nation Israel!

But it will NOT be 'Jewish'.

Zechariah 6:15 says that men from far away will come to build the Temple.....

Of course not. It's Christ that He use the Gentiles to build his Temple... through the Church! Selah! Didn't you read Scripture and receive it?

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

That is your holy temple right here "IF" you are chosen Elect of God to receive this truth. It is a spiritual temple that people in Christ coming and building the temple since the Cross! Not your pipe dream of the physical temple in Israel in the future. Sorry!

 

[iamlamad]

No doubt; there WILL be a new Temple on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem.

But it will NOT be 'Jewish'. The Lord spoke to all the Israelites, Ezekiel 43:10, who are far more than just the few Messianic Jews.
Zechariah 6:15 says that men from far away will come to build the Temple.....
Isaiah 56:1-8 tells it how it will be.

Right you are! There is much more to Israel than Jews.

 

[iamlamad]

No doubt that you are wrong. You got the wrong temple. It's New Testament congrgation of Israel that Christ confirmed a covenant with. Not antichrist nor, physical temple in nation Israel!



Of course not. It's Christ that He use the Gentiles to build his Temple... through the Church! Selah! Didn't you read Scripture and receive it?

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

That is your holy temple right here "IF" you are chosen Elect of God to receive this truth. It is a spiritual temple that people in Christ coming and building the temple since the Cross! Not your pipe dream of the physical temple in Israel in the future. Sorry!

Yes, OF COURSE the church is body of Christ on earth and each member is a temple of the Holy Spirit. But this has nothing to do with the price of tea in China, or the truth that Israel WILL BUILD another temple. Paul told us that man of sin will enter that temple and declare he is God. He will be coming AS IF he is Christ, taking the place of Christ, so to speak. It is written that Jesus will enter a new temple through the Eastern gate. That is why the Jews concreted it up - as if they could stop GOD.

John told us there would be worshipers INSIDE that temple. Of course it will be a real, physical, "brick and mortar" temple.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, OF COURSE the church is body of Christ on earth and each member is a temple of the Holy Spirit. But

Ahhh, here come the "but"....

this has nothing to do with the price of tea in China, or the truth that Israel WILL BUILD another temple.

Based on what Scripture? Come on, when will you learn how to quote Scripture to refute something. Your personal opinions have "nothing to do with the price of tea in China."

John told us there would be worshipers INSIDE that temple. Of course it will be a real, physical, "brick and mortar" temple.

Here you go again. Failure to quote Scripture and check with the context.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The book of Revelation is replete with imagery, symbols, and monikers, most of which refer to or are derived from Old Testament examples. God is not talking about the physical temple here.

Do you even know what a reed like unto a rod is? How did John measure the temple if it is a physical temple? How about when John measured the city, gates, wall of the holy City, in Revelation 21? How did Ezekiel measure the city in Ezekiel 40:5 Did God gave them a physical measure to measure a physical city?

So to correct you, God is not telling John to measure a literal Temple, because there was no literal temple in the visions he was receiving, he was given a spiritual vision of the 'true' temple to illustrate that the children of God did not conform to it.

Romans 8:29

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

This very same Greek word rise. And as signified in the symbology of John, when we are called of God to measure the Holy Temple, we also are commanded to be risen up together with Christ, and be conformed to His image. The image of the Holy Temple with exact dimensions. Indeed, that is the only way that we will even have true knowledge of the 'true' dimensions of the Temple of heaven.

God did not tell John to measure a physical temple in Israel and count the number of Jewish men. It is the true body of Christ making up of both old and new testament Saints wihch is what Holy City of Revelation 21 represents! Selah!

 

[keras]

Ezekiel's temple:
The prophecies of the prophets of Israel can be divided into three sections. They are;
1. Israel - you are being naughty. Mend your ways
2. Israel - I know you will not mend your ways so disgrace, dispersion and discipline will be your portion
3. Israel - God loves you and will restore you for both His love's sake and because of His Promises to the Fathers

But Ezekiel goes further than this. Ezekiel touches that part of God's heart that is very important. That is, His House and the Testimony it brought Him among the nations. Israel had been exceedingly evil and had behaved worse than the heathen nations around them. Even the heathen never swapped their gods, but Israel has swapped the Living and True God for demon-idols. Israel, as per the threats of the Contract of Sinai, was about to be invaded by Nebuchadnezzar, have their City and Temple destroyed, be slaughtered and be carried off to Babylon to serve foreign kings. One thing remained to be done before Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem and defiled and destroyed it. That was, God was to withdraw from the Temple in which He dwelt. This was for two reasons. God's holiness could not tolerate the heathen entering into the same place as He, and if they did, Nebuchadnezzar would have been slain like Uzzah in 2nd Samuel 6. God needed Nebuchadnezzar for further things concerning His glory, so before the Babylonian army could enter Jerusalem, God withdrew His glory from the Temple - His House. This utterly sad event takes up the first few Chapters.

This is a low point for such a great God. From this moment on, with His House and Testimony gone from earth, God is called, throughout the Book of Daniel, which encompasses the time in Babylon, the "God of heaven", but never the "God of earth". His House and Presence WERE GONE. This solemn matter is dealt with by Ezekiel. Ezekiel is divided roughly into FOUR sections;

1. The withdrawal of God and His glory from Solomon's Temple - His House
2. The accusations against Israel that brought about this tragic move
3. The Promises of Israel's future restoration
4. The Promise of a return to a greater glory for the House of God predicted in the latter Chapters

Chapters 37 to 39 give detailed prophecies of Israel's restoration and end with Armageddon at the end of Chapter 39. Then the visions make an abrupt change. They now concern them selves with God's New House. Immediately the Christian will OBJECT. Is not the Church the House of God? And does God live in a House made with hands? The answer is that God's original intention was that man would eat of the Tree of Life and become the HOUSE of God. And since God is a Spirit, He would dwell in the sanctity of the spirit of man. This He finally achieves in the Church. But ... in the process of recovering man, God did TWO things;

1. He dwelt WITH them to have His presence on earth, and for this a House of a special construction was needed
2. He caused the Second Person of the God-head to become a Man, and this Man, Jesus, was physical and needed a physical Dwelling


During His first sojourn on earth, this God-Man Jesus had nowhere to dwell (Matt.8:20; Lk.9:28). His rightful place as God would have been the Temple in Jerusalem, but He is driven from there under threat of death by the rulers of Israel. But at the end of the age, this God-Man will become the ordained, accepted and anointed King of the whole earth by military defeat of His enemies. The question is then, "WHERE WILL HE LIVE PHYSICALLY, AND OF WHAT TYPE WILL HIS HOUSE BE?

Ezekiel answers this. The House in which Emmanuel (God with us) will live must fulfill a number of qualifications.
· It must be in Jerusalem
· It must be a Palace fit for the greatest King ever to live
· It must be a House that reflects the accomplishments of this great King
· It must be a House that allows the correct service to such an Holy One
· It must be a House that everyone of every nation can come up to to pray, worship and have audience with their God.

 

[iamlamad]

Ahhh, here come the "but"....



Based on what Scripture? Come on, when will you learn how to quote Scripture to refute something. Your personal opinions have "nothing to do with the price of tea in China."



Here you go again. Failure to quote Scripture and check with the context.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The book of Revelation is replete with imagery, symbols, and monikers, most of which refer to or are derived from Old Testament examples. God is not talking about the physical temple here.

Do you even know what a reed like unto a rod is? How did John measure the temple if it is a physical temple? How about when John measured the city, gates, wall of the holy City, in Revelation 21? How did Ezekiel measure the city in Ezekiel 40:5 Did God gave them a physical measure to measure a physical city?

So to correct you, God is not telling John to measure a literal Temple, because there was no literal temple in the visions he was receiving, he was given a spiritual vision of the 'true' temple to illustrate that the children of God did not conform to it.

Romans 8:29

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

This very same Greek word rise. And as signified in the symbology of John, when we are called of God to measure the Holy Temple, we also are commanded to be risen up together with Christ, and be conformed to His image. The image of the Holy Temple with exact dimensions. Indeed, that is the only way that we will even have true knowledge of the 'true' dimensions of the Temple of heaven.

God did not tell John to measure a physical temple in Israel and count the number of Jewish men. It is the true body of Christ making up of both old and new testament Saints wihch is what Holy City of Revelation 21 represents! Selah!

You are the one that contradicted written scripture. You know the pertinent scriptures. Paul tells us there must be a temple and John was told to measure it. Both would be very difficult if not temple. Therefore OF COURSE there will be a temple.

You may pull the wool over someone's eyes, but not mine. A "rod" was the USUAL tool to measure back then. John did not have a "Stanley" tape measure! The question we must ask about John measuring a temple is WHEN? It has to be in our future. John was told in the vision to measure, but where in John's narrative? It is in chapter 11, which will be just before the midpoint of the week. In other words, just before the man of sin enters the temple.

The book of Revelation is replete with imagery, symbols, Agreed: a 7 headed beast must be taken as a symbol. But measuring a temple? VERY literal - so no need for symbolism. Somewhere in our future a temple will be built, and John will be told to go and measure it.

God is not talking about the physical temple here. Sure he is. But people reading with preconceived glasses may not believe it. The man of sin is going to walk into this temple and set up an image - probably of himself.

How about when John measured the city, gates, wall of the holy City, in Revelation 21? Sorry, it was the one speaking to John that had the reed to measure.

How did Ezekiel measure the city in Ezekiel 40:5 Again, it was the man (or angel?) WITH Ezekiel who did the measuring. sorry, they did not have a laser measure, or a Stanley tape. I wonder if you have never used a tape before.

Did God gave them a physical measure to measure a physical city? A reed would certainly be physical.

So to correct you, God is not telling John to measure a literal Temple, Thanks, but I needed to correcting: I was right on the money, so to speak

because there was no literal temple in the visions he was receiving Wrong. He was told to measure a REAL temple, that had worshipers INSIDE.

This very same Greek word rise. egeirō
Rise: Strongs: to arouse, cause to rise
KJV use:
rise (36x), raise (28x), arise (27x), raise up (23x), rise up (8x), rise again (5x), raise again (4x), miscellaneous (10x).

Guess what? It means to rise. Perhaps he was reclining at the time.
It seems you have missed it on every point.