Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[DaDad]

Lotta gaps in yall's theories...

Ya think so?

They need a bigger hammer.

DaDad

 

[jgr]

As to that, it could be referring to the following? I'm not saying it 100% is, but that it could possibly be referring to that.


Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

If we go to Luke 21 we see this after that verse.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations : and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

If we go back to Daniel 11, we see this after that verse in that chapter, the one I submitted above.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword , and by flame, by captivity , and by spoil, many days.

Scripture interpreting Scripture, the many days meant in Daniel 11:33 might be meaning---and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled---that according to Luke 21:24.

Daniel 11 refers primarily to the depradations of Antiochus Epiphanes, which occurred over 200 years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. How could Luke be referring to the same period?

 

[Anto9us]

in 444 BC, Nehemiah was given a letter/command/permission to return to Jerusalem and specifically granted permission to cut timber to REBUILD WALLS (Neh ch 2)
It may be close enough for jazz - given 360 day years vs 365 day years - the 480 years would end about time of Stephen's stoning, Messiah having been cut off whether you want to say right at end of 69th week or in middle of 70th week

another possible date for a command to go rebuild Jerusalem is earlier - about 457 BC - I think somewhere in Ezra

no need to use a date as early as 483 BC

 

[DaDad]

I would propose that when Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, that we crossed over the ~threshold~.

Just so we all know:

United Nations Resolution 181, resolution passed by the United Nations (UN) General Assembly in 1947 that called for the partition of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states, with the city of Jerusalem as a corpus separatum (Latin: “separate entity”) to be governed by a special international regime.​

If we understand that the "special international regime" referred to is the UNITED NATIONS, maybe - just maybe, we can appreciate the ~threshold~ that Trump crossed this past May.

Who da thunk?
DaDad

 

[Anto9us]

http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks3.htm

Check out the cool pic of Nehemiah the Royal CupBearer appearing before Artaxerxes - they give 445 BC - mas o menos

 

[Anto9us]

http://www.patmospapers.com/daniel/457.htm

four different dates proposed in that article - just spread some GAPS when needed -- let stand -- serve...

 

[Anto9us]

http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/457.html

this one has a polaroid of Ezra getting a decree from Artaxerxes in 457 -- but the artwork in the one with Nehemiah is cooler

 

[DaDad]

...
no need to use a date as early as 483 BC

Problem's not the date. We need more "Messiahs". We only got one, but need TWO.

Perhaps you might know where we can find a SECOND "Messiah".

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Anto9us]

Perhaps you might know where we can find a SECOND "Messiah".

Onias III -- a High Priest -- an "annointed one" round about Antiochus Epiphanes' time

 

[Anto9us]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onias_III

annointed ones coming outta the woodwork around the time of Antiochus Epiphanes...

Onias's, Jason, maybe Donald Trump too, I dunno

 

[DaDad]

Onias III -- a High Priest -- an "annointed one" round about Antiochus Epiphanes' time

Great call, but incorrect.

The CEV cites:

the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.​

And so history fulfilled David Ben Gurion as the FIRST "anointed one" in 1931, and Yitzhak Rabin as the SECOND "anointed one" in 1995.

The translators capitalized the "messiah"/"anointed one" without authority. And these verses are NOT prophetic about Jesus, but instead are for the nation of Israel which would be called in 1924, have a future Prime Minister "coming" in 1931, and have a Dayton/Oslo Peace Accord in 1993 which would last SEVEN years. And then a destroyer "shall come" after the seventy "weeks" (which are a combination of sixty-nine years, and a "week" of years).

But who would actually believe that Scripture and History should agree to such a preposterous premise?

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[A71]

Ok, but you haven't really answered my earlier questions. Here is an easier one. Can you, please, Explain how you understand Daniel 9, in its entirety. Thanks

The covenant between god and Isreal has nothing to do with us, so your question is invalid.

Again, what was Daniel praying for, Gabriel answered daniels specific prayer, about daniels people, daniels city (jerusalem) and the temple. Daniel did not pray about the church or the gentile people. So to place the church, the new covenant or any other context on daniel 9 would be a horrific mistake.

The covenant between god and Isreal has nothing to do with us, so your question is invalid.

Again, what was Daniel praying for, Gabriel answered daniels specific prayer, about daniels people, daniels city (jerusalem) and the temple. Daniel did not pray about the church or the gentile people. So to place the church, the new covenant or any other context on daniel 9 would be a horrific mistake.

 

[A71]

So then you have to show how this would work. The land sabbaths were every seven years. I'm not aware how this alters anything.

One of the problems when dealing with Daniel 9 is our failure to recognize the poetic structure of the passage.
1. The 70year exile was the result of the failure to observe the Sabbatical Year (every seven years the land was to be fallow -- no agriculture). For the 490 years prior to the exile, there had been no Sabbatical year -- that's a total of 70 (490 years contains 70 Sabbatical Years). So the exile was 70 years long to make up for the missed Sabbatical Years. (This is explained in Jeremiah and 2 Chronicles).
2. The promise is that another 490 years was allowed to Israel (70 Sevens).
3. It is possible to pinpoint the Sabbatical years from that time onward in Josephus and the Maccabaen literature.
4. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem is found in Ezra, and is datable (and it was the first year after a Sabbatical Year).
5. The poetic structure follows a parallel two point outline -- one dealing with the people, the other dealing with the city.
6. There are seven items to be fulfilled in the initial promise in answer to Daniel's prayer: "O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive. O Lord, pay attention and act. Delay not, for Your own sake, O my God, because YOUR CITY and YOUR PEOPLE are called by Your name." Dan. 9:19
7. Gabriel answers Daniel's plea with a two-fold answer: "Seventy Sevens (Sabbatical Periods) are decreed four YOUR PEOPLE and YOUR HOLY CITY --
a. To finish transgression,
b. To put an end to sin,
c. To atone for iniquity,
d. To bring in everlasting righteousness,
e. To seal both vision
f. and prophecy,
g. and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
8. Gabriel continues the two-fold theme:
"Know and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build JERUSALEM (the City) to the coming of the MESSIAH (for the PEOPLE), the prince, there shall be seven Sabbatical periods. Then for sixty-two Sabbatical periods it (the City) will be built again...but in troubled times."
"After the sixty-two Sabbatical periods, the MESSIAH (for the PEOPLE) shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy THE CITY and the Holy Place. Desolations are decreed.
"And HE (the MESSIAH for the PEOPLE) shall make a strong covenant with many for one Sabbatical Period; and in the middle of that Period he will put an end to sacrifice and offering (Old Covenant fulfilled)."
"And on the wing of abomination shall one come who makes desolate (the CITY) until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."
In other words, half of the statements apply to the MESSIAH and His People, and the other half apply to the future of the CITY.
That this applies to Jesus Christ should be obvious. A.D.27/28 was the beginning of a Sabbatical Period. In the middle of that Sabbatical Period, He died for the sins of the whole world, bringing to fulfillment all of the types, shadows, ceremonies pointing forward to salvation. At the end of that Sabbatical Period, the Gospel went out from Jerusalem to the whole world in the conversion of Paul. 40 years later (a generation), the CITY was destroyed.
Try this on and see if it all fits. I may be able to document more. Blessings in Him in whom we are complete.

 

[jgr]

And so history fulfilled David Ben Gurion as the FIRST "anointed one" in 1931, and Yitzhak Rabin as the SECOND "anointed one" in 1995.

Being public figures, do you have credible media or other accounts or records of the occasions of their anointings?

 

[A71]

It has not yet

Isreal is still in sin, and the city is stil desolate and has been since babylon

Makes zero sense.
The Temple was rebuilt. It is all in Nehemiah and Ezra.
I cannot understand what you are trying to say.
How could Jesus leave Jerusalem desolate if it was already desolate?
(See above question.)

 

[Douggg]

Yes. Moses reviewed the covenant made at Mount Sinai.

But that is not the question. Did Moses make a law for the leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year basis?

 

[BABerean2]

But that is not the question. Did Moses make a law for the leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year basis?

Can you show the word "confirm" in the text of the passages from the books of Moses?

Because the average person could not read, they reviewed the terms of the Sinai Covenant with the people every 7 years.

Is the word "Moses" or "Sinai" in the text of Daniel 9?

Is Daniel 9 about the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant in His Blood? (Matthew 26:28)

Had the New Covenant already been promised to Jeremiah, before the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel?

Is Daniel 9:24 fulfilled in Hebrews 10:16-18, and Acts of the Apostles 10:38?
.

 

[Douggg]

Can you show the word "confirm" in the text of the passages from the books of Moses?

Because the average person could not read, they reviewed the terms of the Sinai Covenant with the people every 7 years.

No, I cannot show the word "confirm" in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Moses didn't use that word. Confirm the Mt. Sinai Covenant is the essence of what he was saying to do.

The reason, imo, that it has been passed over by nearly all of the prophecy's "experts" and commentators to make the connection with confirming the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9 is that they rely on "word" searches in formulating their views for a large extent. So when they search "confirm", Deuteronomy 31:9-13 doesn't appear.

And no, it has nothing to do with the average person could not read. That second generation was about to enter the promise land, and Moses was making his last speech to the nation.

The purpose of the law was that the leaders of all future generations of Israel, Moses made responsible to give a speech, just like he was giving, to those future generations who were not present there in that day, and the Exodus ordeal would fade in its memory - of all they went through - of how the children of Israel of future generations came to possess the land that God had given them.

What the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant is going to be a big speech to the nation of Israel, broadcast around the world, that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews as theirs forever - from the temple mount.

Could you imagine the Muslims ever letting a leader of Israel, make that sort of speech from the temple mount that God gave the land of Israel as their forever, including the temple mount? So it is not going to happen until after Gog/Magog.

 

[BABerean2]

What the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant is going to be a big speech to the nation of Israel, broadcast around the world, that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews as theirs forever - from the temple mount.

The area now known as "The Temple Mount" is actually the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.
This is proven by the video below.

The only way you can make your viewpoint above work is by denying that Christ fulfilled Daniel 9:24, as found in Hebrews 10:16-18, and Acts of the Apostles 10:38.

You must also ignore the fact that the 70th week of Daniel is found fulfilled in Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18. The text plainly says that the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews.

It is another example of ignoring certain passages of scripture to make one's doctrine work.

.

 

[BABerean2]

3000 out of every jew is quite a difference.

That would be like saying 3000 americans came to christ, thus all americans have found godm and. O more does neighbor have to teach neighbor.

The ot says all isreal will repent, paul reiterates in romans 11 that again, all will be saved

3000 is not close to all

Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.


G2640
κατάλειμμα
kataleimma
kat-al'-ime-mah
From G2641; a remainder, that is, (by implication) a few: - remnant.
Total KJV occurrences: 1


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