Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Biblewriter said:

In 1690 a Bishop by the name of William Lloyd had set this idea forth. And it was challenged in 1726 by a Vicar named Peter Lancaster. As by this time Lloyd had died, a Rector by the name of Benjamin Marshall wrote a powerful answer to Lancaster.

As quoted by William Watson, Benjamin Marshall said:

"Those sixty nine Septenaries of Years ended in the year of Christ 32 ... Consequently a Propheitik Week, or one other Septenary of Years is still remaining, and without any Succesion of Time for it in the prophecy. However, this remaining One Week of the Seventy ... can possibly make no more than seventy Weeks ... we are not at a loss for it. Loo for it in the remaining Single Week of the Prophecy distinctly spoken of afterwards ... When the Angel had done with these two Periods of this Prophecy, he afterwards tells the Prophet expressly of another One Week only, distinguishing that more immediately in the Half Part thereof."

Unless I made a typographical error, this is exactly the words (including even the spelling) of Benjamin Marshall, in his work titled "Three Letters in Vindication of the late Bishop Lloyd's Hypothesis on Daniel's Prophecy of the 70 Weeks" (London, 1726), as quoted by William Watson on page 243 of his monumental work titled "Dispensationalism before Darby."

But of course, to you, mere Bishops and Rectors are not "leaders," because they did not teach what you want to believe.

And let us not forget that at about this time William Lowth, B.D., Prebendary of Winchester Cathedral, published what became for many years England’s most widely circulated series of commentaries on the Old Testament prophets.

In these works he spoke so many times of the prophesied return of "the Jews" to their land, and their eventual restoration to their God after returning there, that it amounted to insisting on the point. The number of times he commented on this in Just one of his many vlumes, his Commentary on the prophet Ezekiel, published in 1723, said it so many times that it took more than 10 pages just to quote them in the appendix to my book, "Ancient Dispensational Truth," which was published late last year.

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Here is a link to Marshall's original treatise.

Notice the introduction:

“A Chronological Treatise Upon the Seventy Weeks of Daniel Wherein is Evidently Shown the Accomplishment of the Predicted Events, as Especially of the Cutting Off of the Messiah After the Predicted VII and LXII Weeks According to the Express Letter of the Prophecy...”

Not a hint of decapitation there.

From what PDF page numbers in this treatise did Watson copy what he asserted to be the basis for his decapitation claim?

BABerean2 said:

Apparently these men rejected what is found below in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


Why would anyone think the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant found in Matthew 26:28, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

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Why would they prefer the notes above the actual words of God himself?

jgr said:

Here is a link to Marshall's original treatise.

Notice the introduction:

“A Chronological Treatise Upon the Seventy Weeks of Daniel Wherein is Evidently Shown the Accomplishment of the Predicted Events, as Especially of the Cutting Off of the Messiah After the Predicted VII and LXII Weeks According to the Express Letter of the Prophecy...”

Not a hint of decapitation there.

From what PDF page numbers in this treatise did Watson copy what he asserted to be the basis for his decapitation claim?

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You linked to a different book than the one quoted by William Watson, published three years earlier, by the same author. The one Quoted by Watson was "Three Letters in Vindication of the late Bishop Lloyd's Hypothesis on Daniel's Prophecy of the 70 Weeks" (London, 1728) It was not "A Chronological Treatise Upon the Seventy Weeks of Daniel," by the same author (London, 1725)

Note: In my first post on this, I erroneously gave the date of the "Three Letters" as 1726 instead of 1728.

Watson gave his quotation as coming from pages 44-45 of that work.

Biblewriter said:

You linked to a different book than the one quoted by William Watson, published three years earlier, by the same author. The one Quoted by Watson was "Three Letters in Vindication of the late Bishop Lloyd's Hypothesis on Daniel's Prophecy of the 70 Weeks" (London, 1728) It was not "A Chronological Treatise Upon the Seventy Weeks of Daniel," by the same author (London, 1725)

Note: In my first post on this, I erroneously gave the date of the "Three Letters" as 1726 instead of 1728.

Watson gave his quotation as coming from pages 44-45 of that work.

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What is the length of the gap which Watson claims Marshall espoused?

jgr said:

Who claimed that?

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In your post #1033, you said that seventy weeks are contiguous and may end at Jesus' Return. I subtracted 490 years from 2030.

Biblewriter said:

So we see that the scriptures indeed clearly foretell a future covenant that God will not allow to be fulfilled. And Daniel 9:27 is only one of several places where this covenant is mentioned.

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Thank you James for your good post #1039, I have copied it for reference.
All that is needed now, is to ascertain who are the two parties to this treaty.

My belief is that it will be between the leader of the One World Govt, then; not yet revealed as the Anti-Christ and the leaders of the new nation in all of the holy Land.
Ezekiel 38:8-12 describes this nation, it is obvious they are not the Jewish State of Israel, but they are a people gathered out of the nations of the world and settled into all of the holy Land, without defenses; relying on God for their protection. They are all the faithful Christian people, all who stood firm in their faith during the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, that will clear and cleanse the entire Middle East region and change the world, enabling the establishment of a OWG.
Those people are seen by John, praising God in the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal; Day of the Lord. Revelation 7:9-14 Most Christians today just assume this gathering is in heaven, but nowhere is this stated. May prophesies tell how the Lord will motivate His faithful Christian people to migrate to and live in His holy Land, being the people He always wanted but has never had there. The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

The Lord will protect them, as a huge army comes down from the north, to plunder them. Joel 2:20 describes their demise well. This massive defeat will scare the leader of the OWG, so he comes to Beulah and negotiates a peace treaty with them. As Isaiah 28:14-18 says; that is their bad mistake, as they should rely only on God for safety.
So at the mid point of that 7 years, the Leader of the OWG, now revealed as the Anti-Christ, will take over Beulah, Zechariah 14:1-2, those Christians who rejected the treaty, Daniel 11:32b will be taken to safety, Revelation 12:14, but those who agreed to it, Daniel 11:32a, must remain. Revelation 12:17
1260 days later Jesus will Return and commence His Millennium reign, those who kept faithful will be His priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10

keras said:

In your post #1033, you said that seventy weeks are contiguous and may end at Jesus' Return.

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Not. Reread the associated posts.

jgr said:

What is the length of the gap which Watson claims Marshall espoused?

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I know only what he quoted from the book, which I quoted here.

Biblewriter said:

I know only what he quoted from the book, which I quoted here.

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Bro. Watson concluded his quote just a tad early.

From page 46:

"Now in a rational, and natural construction of the prophecy in the periods thus espressly and particularly here given, what can this remaining week be possibly other than the seventieth week of it?
For if the particularized seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks be weeks undeniably parts of seventy weeks, consequently, with all reason the single week remains equally a part, undeniably also of seventy weeks.
Otherwise, why should they be so, and not this? For the same reason that they are parts of the whole, so is this also.
Nor do they make up the whole without this also. But altogether, or seven weeks and threescore and two weeks, and one week put together make up the whole seventy weeks of this prophecy."

Emphases mine.

Bro. Marshall was unmistakably and indisputably a "nondecapitationalist".

Biblewriter said:

Why would they prefer the notes above the actual words of God himself?

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The same could be said about your team's use of Scofield's notes.

Apparently they had not cut Jeremiah 31:31-34 out of their Bible.

They had also failed to find an antichrist or a "gap" in Daniel chapter 9.

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Biblewriter said:

But an end time covenant that will not be fulfilled is clearly mentioned in other Old Testament prophecies. One of these is Isaiah 28:14-18, where we read, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem, Because you have said, ‘We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement.

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There is a covenant made with death and Sheol in Isaiah 28:14-18.
There is a covenant confirmed with many in Daniel 9:27.
There is no indication, explicit or implicit, of a connection between them.

Biblewriter said:

Again, in Isaiah 57:7-9 we read, “On a lofty and high mountain You have set your bed; Even there you went up To offer sacrifice. Also behind the doors and their posts You have set up your remembrance; For you have uncovered yourself to those other than Me, And have gone up to them; You have enlarged your bed And made a covenant with them; You have loved their bed, Where you saw their nudity. You went to the king with ointment, And increased your perfumes;

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There is a covenant made with the unfaithful in Isaiah 57:7-9.
There is a covenant confirmed with many in Daniel 9:27.
There is no indication, explicit or implicit, of a connection between them.

jgr said:

Bro. Watson concluded his quote just a tad early.

From page 46:

"Now in a rational, and natural construction of the prophecy in the periods thus espressly and particularly here given, what can this remaining week be possibly other than the seventieth week of it?
For if the particularized seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks be weeks undeniably parts of seventy weeks, consequently, with all reason the single week remains equally a part, undeniably also of seventy weeks.
Otherwise, why should they be so, and not this? For the same reason that they are parts of the whole, so is this also.
Nor do they make up the whole without this also. But altogether, or seven weeks and threescore and two weeks, and one week put together make up the whole seventy weeks of this prophecy."

Emphases mine.

Bro. Marshall was unmistakably and indisputably a "nondecapitationalist".

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LINK?

BABerean2 said:

The same could be said about your team's use of Scofield's notes.

Apparently they had not cut Jeremiah 31:31-34 out of their Bible.

They had also failed to find an antichrist or a "gap" in Daniel chapter 9.

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We base no doctrine whatsoever on the notes of Scofield, or of anyone else. Some people use his notes. The only one of his notes that I quoted in my book, was pointing out why it was mistaken.

jgr said:

There is a covenant made with death and Sheol in Isaiah 28:14-18.
There is a covenant confirmed with many in Daniel 9:27.
There is no reference, explicit or implicit, to a connection between them.



There is a covenant made with the unfaithful in Isaiah 57:7-9.
There is a covenant confirmed with many in Daniel 9:27.
There is no reference, explicit or implicit, to a connection between them.

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Both are in the end times.

Biblewriter said:

LINK?

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In post 1041.

Biblewriter said:

Both are in the end times.

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Which began 2,000 years ago (Hebrews 1:1,2).

jgr said:

In post 1041.

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Sorry, let me correct that.

Biblewriter said:

LINK?

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https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1728_marshall_three-letters.pdf

jgr said:

In post 1041.

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I do not understand the point you were making in post #1048.

Biblewriter said:

We base no doctrine whatsoever on the notes of Scofield, or of anyone else. Some people use his notes.

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When you say "we" you must not be including the man who stood in the pulpit of my own church body and said that he was preaching out of the "Old Scofield Bible".

The truth is that your doctrine spread like a virus through much of the modern evangelical Church in America, through the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible.
To say otherwise is a denial of the historical record.


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BABerean2 said:

When you say "we" you must not be including the man who stood in the pulpit of my own church body and said that he was preaching out of the "Old Scofield Bible".

The truth is that your doctrine spread like a virus through much of the modern evangelical Church in America, through the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible.
To say otherwise is a denial of the historical record.


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What some obscure preacher said is immaterial. I was speaking of the leadership of the movement. And none of that changes the fact that I have personally shown you, and you have reacted to, hard proof that what you keep posting about the origins of the pre-trib doctrine is incorrect. The people who originally made these statements may have simply been misinformed. But to continue to post this material after seeing proof that it is not true constitutes an outright lie.