"Where is God today?"

[Ignatius21]

I was talking with an Orthodox friend the other day, who said that sometimes he's hit with this nagging sort of doubt: "Where is God today?" We read of healing miracles, parting of seas, walking on water, and all sorts of miracles in the Bible. We read of Ananias and his wife being struck dead for lying to the Holy Spirit--why doesn't THAT happen today? Why are all the huckster evangelists ripping people off to pay for their vacation homes and private jets, and getting away with it?

He says he hears of miracles but has never seen one. And, if he did see a weeping icon, or some uncreated fire coming forth from a tomb...what would that prove?

I guess I wonder this often too. Why are the last X centuries so filled with stories of miracles, but today it's only offshoot groups of Charismatics who claim to see them? Or stories of monks in Mt. Athos appearing in multiple places at once. But not "Hey, Jill with the 4 young kids, who's dying of cancer? She's healed!"

Should we even look for miracles? That's often my thought. Jesus wasn't just putting on a show, but was demonstrating his power. And left with "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believe." I'll also admit that there are some times in my life when my biggest reason for believing was, the atheistic alternative was simply too far fetched and requires too much faith

It made me think of a quote I once heard, when someone asked some famous atheist "If you die and realize you've been wrong, and can only say one thing to God, what would it be?" His answer: "Why did you make yourself so hard to find?"

What do y'all think?

 

[All4Christ]

I think miracles are very visible today, but they may not always be where you see them. First, there definitely are cases where people are healed from terminal diseases though they may not be as widely discussed as in charismatic circles (I know, I was one of them ). However, I believe in the small miracles as much as the big ones. For example, I have epilepsy. I used to pray and pray and pray that I would be healed. It was a source of a lot of strife since it severely impacted my life. Eventually, after a series of medications, my doctor decided that medicines wouldn't work, and that I would need surgery. Strike 1. I was tested for my potential candidacy for the surgery and was told that I wasn't a valid candidate. Strike 2. We asked to try a combination of two medicines we had tried before - for a last ditch effort afterwards. It worked! Despite trying the medicines earlier, for some reason they controlled by seizures then. For the following 16 years, I have had controlled epilepsy. Some may say that I wasn't healed, but I say it was a miracle in two ways. God enabled me to be "healed" - to be able to live - by using medicines that previously didn't work. Second, I was able to get off a medicine that later would have caused birth defects in any future children, despite what the doctors thought. I am able to live, when the doctors thought it would never be controlled. I was able to get through the depression and despair that accompanied it, including the humiliation and cruelty of young teenagers. Now, I am able to use my experience to help others who experience similar situations. It has happened multiple times where I meet people who need help from someone who knows what is going on.

Some may say this isn't a miracle. I say it is a huge miracle in that God helped where doctors said it wasn't possible, and God helped a girl get through the situation that leaves many (with the same severity) practically disabled and unable to live. It's not a miracle where I can say - I had uncontrollable seizures, and one day after praying I was seizure free! I can say though that after many many prayers, God helped me step by step and he gave me success where the doctors saw no possibility.

Anyways, my point is that there are many miracles like that - and there are plenty of Bible-style miracles going on; I jut don't think they are advertised as much.

 

[buzuxi02]

There are miracles today but not like times past and not like before the destruction of the temple.

First off as technology advances there will be less and less miracles, because we dont need them as much. The casting out of demons has been replaced by the psyciatric ward for example. Secondly such an advanced society is more cynical and thirdly because society is more diverse there is no longer a common understanding of wonders.

Go and re-read the verses where Jesus was accused of healing on the sabbath. No one was skeptical, the authorities were just ticked off he healed on the sabbath. The attitude was ," why do you have to heal on the sabbath when all the other wonderworkers take the day off".

The withering of the fig tree was precisely the close of prophets and miracleworkers arising among the hebrews.

 

[Isaacsname]

Miracles happen, I know this all too well

Lots of people probably experience miraculous things and never talk about them with anybody

 

[All4Christ]

There are miracles similar to the miracles then that occur even today however. It may not happen as often, but it does occur in Orthodox Christians as well. They can and have been as miraculous as healing from cancer or paralytics being able to walk again. God has not stopped those miracles.

I don't believe that God chooses to heal everyone however. There are times where we are told to bear our cross, as it may be for the good of our salvation or for reaching out to others. This would be similar to the thorn Paul had to bear.

God does perform miracles today, and is not and had not been limited by the advent of technology or skepticism today.

 

[All4Christ]

A clarification...Buzuxi is right though in that medicine causes some miracles to not be needed in the same way as earlier times...but I do believe that God sometimes works His healing through medicine. Also, skepticism is a deterrent to miracles, as belief is required. That said, God does work miracles today of all kinds.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

The biggest miracle is when a lost son or daughter come to realize that they have a father who loves them and wait for them to come home again.

I have so, so many friends (or aquintances) that think christianity is a big faritale and consider us to be naive, stupid fools for calling Christ our Lord and worship him.

When one of those (if ever) people at some point during their life turn their back on their atheism and pick up their cross despite any verbal and in some cases maybe even fysical persecution and decide to follow Christ, THAT'S the biggest miracle one can witness.

Christ says so himself and of course he is undeniably correct as always.

Every other miracles is secondary to this.

Christ today, Christ tomorrow and Christ for all eternity!
Christ is the way, the truth and the life <3

 

[ArmyMatt]

the miracles do happen. the Holy Fire, the reversing of Jordan, the Cloud on Mt Tabor, the dust at the Tomb of St John the theologian, the snakes of the Theotokos, etc are all yearly and documented miracles. plus, all of the myrrh gushing icons and relics out there.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

ArmyMatt, by saying snakes of the Theotokos do you mean the nuns which transformed into snakes or something?

 

[ArmyMatt]

ArmyMatt, by saying snakes of the Theotokos do you mean the nuns which transformed into snakes or something?

yep, the ones that are gentle and have crosses on their heads and tongues. scientists have tried to capture them for study but have never been able to do so.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I've always struggled to believe in those kinds of miracles.
To me it sounds to much like it's made up, at least it feels that way.

I have the same issue whenever people I know speak with great passion of Our Lady of Fatima or when people speaks of Sister Faustina and other miracles.

I guess I'm to sceptical of a person to believe in a lot of this.
To bad though as it seems to strengthen the faith within those who believe in it.

Is it common among Orthodox Christians to believe in these miracles and appearations do you think, or is it well accepted to don't believe in em?

 

[gzt]

I would say that it seems understandable that, while we are not cessationist, miracles would mostly focus around the coming of the God-man Jesus Christ to earth and afterwards be less frequent.

I don't think it's strictly necessary to believe every pious story you hear as long as you acknowledge that it is possible for God to work wonders, whether by normal means or extraordinary means.

 

[gzt]

An interesting note about the snakes of Cephalonia is that they apparently moved to the new calendar date.

 

[AKBlessings]

I feel very blessed to have personally witnesses and known people who have experienced miracles. A few months ago my mother fell asleep at the wheel. She woke up because her phone that was lying in the passenger seat took a picture and she heard the sound it made. The picture was all black, but the time stamp shows it was the moment she was jolted awake. My first winter in Alaska I drove off the rode and got stuck. Out of no where a man showed up and helped me to get out of the ditch. When I turned to thank him, he was gone and I could not see where to. I had a child fall out of a baby swing onto a hard wood floor. The blanket that had been covering him was folded up and under him like a bed, while he was lieing under his swing, happy as can be. My good friend who was recently widowed and no longer had a source of income was distressed that her coat would not make it through the winter. As she put it in the washer she thought of how if only the zipper had not broken on it she could make it work. When she pulled it out of the dryer she noticed that it had a whole new zipper in the place of the old one. She showed it to me, it is obviously a new zipper that does not match the ones on the pockets, but it is sown in seamlessly. And it is obvious that it is her jacket as it still has the same stains on the pockets and tear in the side. A good friend of mine had a child with the flu and secondary infections. After over a week in the hospital and not eating or taking fluids, the toddler was unable to stay awake and things were looking dire. A friend brought in oil from an icon and the moment they began to place it on him, the little boy sat up in bed and asked for something to eat. He immediately ate with relish, recovered and was sent home shortly after. I could go on and on. I think that in looking for mountains to move we overlook the many everyday miracles that surround us.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I've always struggled to believe in those kinds of miracles.
To me it sounds to much like it's made up, at least it feels that way.

I have the same issue whenever people I know speak with great passion of Our Lady of Fatima or when people speaks of Sister Faustina and other miracles.

I guess I'm to sceptical of a person to believe in a lot of this.
To bad though as it seems to strengthen the faith within those who believe in it.

Is it common among Orthodox Christians to believe in these miracles and appearations do you think, or is it well accepted to don't believe in em?

there is actually a healthy amount of skepticism (if you ever read Mountain of Silence). it prevents you from following any smoke and mirrors show that is put in front of you. miracles really just serve to confirm the faith that you already have. they are not the basis for the faith.

 

[truefiction1]

The miracles are all around. Our minds are conditioned to not be aware of them. The conditioning may be very near complete, or not. God knows.

 

[E.C.]

Here's the thing about miracles: 1) 21st century society has strayed so far from God that, let's be realistic here, we probably would have difficulty recognizing one if it looked us in the face and said "hi I'm a miracle" 2) as Orthodox we tend to be far too humble about miracles to attract media attention and personally I'm of the opinion that that is for the better.

There was an older Romanian woman who unknowingly helped bring me to Orthodoxy a long time ago. While living in communist Romania her husband was imprisoned on multiple occasions and she would pray for his protection to his saint, St. John the Baptist. The last time he was imprisoned before they escaped Romania the saint came to her in prayer and said, "Your husband will make it out of prison".
That was all she needed to keep praying.

 

[All4Christ]

I've always struggled to believe in those kinds of miracles.
To me it sounds to much like it's made up, at least it feels that way.

...

I guess I'm to sceptical of a person to believe in a lot of this.
To bad though as it seems to strengthen the faith within those who believe in it.

Is it common among Orthodox Christians to believe in these miracles and appearations do you think, or is it well accepted to don't believe in em?

I've struggled with some of them as well - perhaps a by product of me coming from a very different background!

My husband and I had a long discussion about this last night (that's the great thing about road trips!) and he made some good points.

As Orthodox Christians, miracles (healing, forgiveness of sin, God turning people's lives around) is considered to be 'normal'. It isn't something to be boasted about, as it can promote pride. Christ told people who he worked miracles in to keep what happened to themselves and to not spread it around. We are supposed to follow that same concept, to avoid spiritual pride.

The myrhh streaming icons are associated to healing, where people are anointed with oil from the myrhh and experience healing. My question to my husband was - why go through the myrhh streaming icon and not just from God? Classic Protestant question

He mentioned something similar to what Matt said, about the myrrh streaming icons and other similar miracles being for the faith of the people - and also reminded me of the many places where the grace of God is accompanied by a 'form', so to speak. For example, anointing with oil => healing, bread and wine => turning to body and blood of Christ, chrism and laying of hands => confirmation / chrismation, water => baptism and regeneration of body, mud in the eyes => healing of the blind, dipping in water 7 times => healing (in OT).

The Grace ultimately comes through God, and in the case of the myrrh streaming icons, also through the prayers of the saint depicted on the icon. Also, consider in Acts that a cloth that touched Paul provided healing to many who touched it after it was no longer in Paul's possession. I think I skipped over that verse every time I read Acts before I became Orthodox!

Regarding many other situational miracles, I have a (what I hope to be healthy) dose of skepticism, though I have no doubt that it is possible. I am sure that is a by product of my past. I do accept the miracles officially recognized by the Church though, such as the Protection of the Theotokos. I've worked hard to accept even that though; I accept it, because I trust the Church to lead me in the right direction.

One last thing - he mentioned that he knows of many miracles with family members that happened, that were not shared with many other members of the Church. For example, his grandmother had severe cataracts, was anointed by oil from a myrrh streaming icon, and went to the eye doctors and found that it was gone completely.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I am enjoying this thread. Many good points being made.

I too have seen a lot of what would be considered "minor" miracles. Not the moving of a mountain, or the resurrection of the dead, but certainly "wow" things that can't be coincidence, especially not over and over. And they don't get talked about.

In spite of that, I have a degree of skepticism too. I tend to want to be personally aware before I can accept a particular event 100%. However, I DO have full confidence in God that He can do such things. Though I admit, there are certain kinds of miracles that I would like to see but have not yet.

Skepticism may be a good thing. After all, Antichrist is said to come with all sorts of lying signs and wonders. Believing everything - even if it really does happen - will prove unwise someday.