Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

iamlamad · Apr 7, 2018

Dig4truth said:
And where will it be, does it stay in heaven?

Rev 21:1-3 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

10-11 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.

My friend, do you have any concept of TIMING at all? You have jumped to a time far far into the future, when the existing heaven and earth have passed away and God has created a NEW heaven and earth.

It is not God's intent to wait that long for us to see our mansions. The truth is, those who make up the bride of Christ may well see their mansion THIS YEAR@

iamlamad · Apr 7, 2018

seventysevens said:
Jesus is speaking in John 3 BEFORE his resurrection that only Jesus has come from heaven and no one goes there before he has died and raised to life , Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to him that he would take him to heaven that day and He did !

John 14
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees that will die in their sins as they are "from below"
John 8
23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
25 “Who are you?” they asked.
“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied.
26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

John 17: “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.
19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

You taken scripture that has nothing to do with the rapture and wrongly apply it even as You don't even recognize what it actually says !
You have taken scripture out of it's context so that you can make it say something other that what it does say - what you have done is exactly what you accuse - you are like the Pharisees

One little correction: Jesus went to PARADISE when He died, where Abraham and Lazarus was, still deep deep inside the earth. THAT is where the thief was with Jesus. He did not ascended into heaven until after he got Mary away from Him.

seventysevens · Apr 7, 2018

iamlamad said:
One little correction: Jesus went to PARADISE when He died, where Abraham and Lazarus was, still deep deep inside the earth. THAT is where the thief was with Jesus. He did not ascended into heaven until after he got Mary away from Him.

Jesus took those in Paradise into heaven When Jesus resurrected and a lot of others were as well -

seventysevens · Apr 7, 2018

You have a major misunderstanding of what scripture means - go back and actually reacdthe it all slowly - it is all scripture fact - When people die their soul/spirit go directly to be with the LORD in heaven - no such thing as soul sleep
Jesus took those in Paradise into heaven . When Jesus resurrected a lot of others were as well -

Dig4truth said:
Yeshua did not ascend to His Father that day so ?He could not have taken the man to paradise that day. Even after 3 days Yeshua said that "I have not ascended to My Father".

The man is dead and awaiting the resurrection.

See my response to iamlamad.

Yeshua is from above. What was your point here? Perhaps that their faith is from below, i.e., the devil's? Because I'm pretty sure that they were born on earth.

Again, here we can see the tension in the understanding of what it means to be "not of this world" or "from below". They obviously are from earth as we are but their mindset or faith comes from below and ours comes from above.

keras · Apr 7, 2018

The sad fact is that those who have chosen to believe false teachings are locked into them, as Isaiah 29:9-11 and blinded; Isaiah 42:18-20, Ephesians 4:18

Jesus, Paul and Peter all said that in the last days there will be false teachers, like ravening wolves among the flock. So those who listen to them and blindly misinterpret scriptures have become incapable of changing their beliefs. Jeremiah 6:10

I watched a video of John Hagee once. He said: 'We'rrrre gonna be rrrraptured', and drew on his whiteboard an arrow that shot upward, supposedly to heaven.
Jesus said that we can discern false prophets and teachers, by their fruits. Matthew 7:15-20
From what I gather John Hagee is an adulterer, and a multi- millionaire from his church business and book sales. His latest book on the supposed 'blood moon tetrad' sold millions and was a false teaching. Did he ever apologize for his gross error?
The original proponents of a rapture to heaven, were Irving and Darby. Their histories are very murky and unchristian, to say the least.

I have posted against the rapture theory for years, to virtually no avail.

The ONLY way people can discern the real truth, is by reading the Bible for themselves, with fervent prayer for the holy Spirit to enlighten them. I know some have done that and God is true to His Word, He will lift the veil from over them.
Myself; I received a vision, that opened my mind to the Prophetic Word and I have performed my God given task of writing out and explaining it to whoever cares to read about God's Plans for our future.

I know that the people here are Christians and we can confidently assume you all do your best to keep the Commandments. This means that whatever happens, you do not lose your Salvation. But thinking you will be raptured before anything bad happens, sets you up to expect something that will not happen and many may lose their faith, as people faint with terror as the earth and the cosmos are shaken. Luke 21:25-26

Dig4truth · Apr 7, 2018

seventysevens said:
You have a major misunderstanding of what scripture means - go back and actually reacdthe it all slowly - it is all scripture fact - When people die their soul/spirit go directly to be with the LORD in heaven - no such thing as soul sleep
Jesus took those in Paradise into heaven . When Jesus resurrected a lot of others were as well -

Which is it soul or spirit? If one does not understand the distinction then one cannot understand the answer. Please don't infer that I am speaking as someone who is wise, I have only learned the distinction myself very recently.

We have a body and when the breath of life is introduced we become a living soul. The joining of the body and spirit becomes a soul. It was that way in the Garden of Eden when God breathed the breath of life into Adam and he became a living soul (nephesh in Hebrew)

And after we die we will not be a living soul again until we receive our new bodies at the resurrection.

iamlamad · Apr 7, 2018

seventysevens said:
Jesus took those in Paradise into heaven When Jesus resurrected and a lot of others were as well -

Yes, this is true. But you were speaking of the day He died. THAT DAY He and the thief were in Paradise.

iamlamad · Apr 7, 2018

Dig4truth said:
Which is it soul or spirit? If one does not understand the distinction then one cannot understand the answer. Please don't infer that I am speaking as someone who is wise, I have only learned the distinction myself very recently.

We have a body and when the breath of life is introduced we become a living soul. The joining of the body and spirit becomes a soul. It was that way in the Garden of Eden when God breathed the breath of life into Adam and he became a living soul (nephesh in Hebrew)

And after we die we will not be a living soul again until we receive our new bodies at the resurrection.

Yours was the understanding way back in the time of Solomon. But the truth is, the New Testament uses the word "soul" differently. (meanings of words often change over time.) In the New testament, "soul" means our mind, will and emotions." We ARE a spirit being, possessing a soul, and we live in a body. How amazing: we are a trinity made in God's image and after His likeness.

Dig4truth · Apr 7, 2018

iamlamad said:
Yours was the understanding way back in the time of Solomon. But the truth is, the New Testament uses the word "soul" differently. (meanings of words often change over time.) In the New testament, "soul" means our mind, will and emotions." We ARE a spirit being, possessing a soul, and we live in a body. How amazing: we are a trinity made in God's image and after His likeness.

And that is where your misunderstanding stems from.
To believe that the soul and spirit has changed because of the etymology of a word is not suggested.

We don't "posses" a soul, we are a soul. When the spirit or breath of life enters the body we "become" a living soul. See Gen 2.

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Do I believe that our mind, will and emotions are a part of our soul, yep.

seventysevens · Apr 8, 2018

Dig4truth said:
Which is it soul or spirit? If one does not understand the distinction then one cannot understand the answer. Please don't infer that I am speaking as someone who is wise, I have only learned the distinction myself very recently.

We have a body and when the breath of life is introduced we become a living soul. The joining of the body and spirit becomes a soul. It was that way in the Garden of Eden when God breathed the breath of life into Adam and he became a living soul (nephesh in Hebrew)

And after we die we will not be a living soul again until we receive our new bodies at the resurrection.

We have a body that dies , a spirit that never dies , and a soul which is how many describe as the mind of a person - I use spirit/soul in forums as some people want to say soul and other say spirit - I don't feel compelled to dispute a difference every time the matter is discussed
the soul/spirit goes to be with the Lord -this link may offer to help you better understand
What is the human soul?

Major1 · Apr 8, 2018

BABerean2 said:
This forum allows users to underline, bold, resize, and color code the text.
It emphasizes, certain parts of a passage, in the same way someone might use a highlighter on some passages from a book.
That is why I did it.

So far, you have been promoting modern Dispensational Theology, which was brought to America by John Nelson Darby about the time of the Civil War.
Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine was unheard of at the time of the American Revolutionary War.

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.

IMO you did because YOU were YELLING at all of us who do not agree with you.

As I said, I do not care and it does not affect me one way or the other. I just find it disingenuous for you to complain about people make personal comments that do not accept what you believe when you are the one yelling at all of us.

Major1 · Apr 8, 2018

seventysevens said:
We have a body that dies , a spirit that never dies , and a soul which is how many describe as the mind of a person - I use spirit/soul in forums as some people want to say soul and other say spirit - I don't feel compelled to dispute a difference every time the matter is discussed
the soul/spirit goes to be with the Lord -this link may offer to help you better understand
What is the human soul?

Agreed. The spirit of a man is who that man is.

Major1 · Apr 8, 2018

keras said:
WE SHALL GO TO HEAVEN ONE DAY....

But if this is a fundamental plain teaching of the Bible, then surely we should be able to find many verses all over the Bible saying things such as: "When we get to heaven," "When we see each other in heaven," "They are up there in heaven with God," "We shall go to heaven at Christ's return," "We shall be in heaven where God is one day." BUT VERSES LIKE THIS CANNOT BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!

What we do read in the Bible is the Words of Jesus: No man goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13 Where I go, you cannot come. John 7:34 Your home is in this world, Mine is not. John 8:23 I do not pray, Father, that You take them out of this world.... John 17:15

So the truth is, the idea of a 'rapture to heaven', is a straight out Satanic lie; one of his most successful ones, that will cause many unprepared Christians to fall on the Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

Matthew 18:10 ........
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.

John 14:2.....................
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you that where IAM YOU WILL BE ALSO?

Revelation 5:9-13 .............
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

Revelation 21:4......
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Revelation 22:1-5 ..........
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

1 Kings 8:30 ..........
And listen to the plea of your servant and of your people Israel, when they pray toward this place. And listen in heaven your dwelling place, and when you hear, forgive

1 Corinthians 2:7-9 ..........
But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,”What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”

2 Corinthians 5:8.........
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23 ...........
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Philippians 3:20-21..............
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

John 3:16 ..........
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 ............
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 14:6 ...........
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 17:3 ...........
And this is eternal life,that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Acts 4:12 .............
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

If you are so very wrong on your comment about heaven, why would you think that you are not just as wrong on your rejection of the Rapture????

Postvieww · Apr 8, 2018

Can anyone point out any scripture that clearly tells us a resurrected saint will be taken to heaven (where God dwells) in that new body? We don’t count all of the ones in which that is assumed to be the case.

BABerean2 · Apr 8, 2018

Major1 said:
As I said, I do not care and it does not affect me one way or the other.

If you do not care, why would you bring it up?

Some people preach softly, while others use more volume.

As a retired teacher who commonly emphasized some words over others by underlining, or writing larger, or color-coding, I never had a student or parent complain about that practice.

I am glad you do not care...

.

Dig4truth · Apr 8, 2018

seventysevens said:
We have a body that dies , a spirit that never dies , and a soul which is how many describe as the mind of a person - I use spirit/soul in forums as some people want to say soul and other say spirit - I don't feel compelled to dispute a difference every time the matter is discussed
the soul/spirit goes to be with the Lord -this link may offer to help you better understand
What is the human soul?

The human soul is the result of the breath of life, the God given spirit entering a suitable body whether physical or spiritual.

"Many people mistakenly teach that only humans have a soul, and that animals do not, but according to the Bible everything that has the breath of life is a living soul. Simply put, a soul is a living creature. This stands in contrast with inanimate objects such as rocks or plants that were not given the breath of life. In fact, according to Genesis, even reptiles and insects are living souls. This not only helps us to better understand what a soul is, but also what it is not. Specifically, that a soul is not unique to human beings." from the book Immortal (emphasis mine)

http://www.immortalthebook.com/docs/Immortal-Book.pdf

seventysevens · Apr 8, 2018

Postvieww said:
Can anyone point out any scripture that clearly tells us a resurrected saint will be taken to heaven (where God dwells) in that new body? We don’t count all of the ones in which that is assumed to be the case.

Why is that even needed to be known, why would there be a need to know the day or hour when the new body is given?
It may be the new body is given when Jesus returns to earth - it may be given in heaven - it may be given at both -
We know that there is a spiritual dimension that is real and Jesus had his new body before he ascended into heaven in front of the apostles -

People in heaven have a spiritual body but we do not know if that body is the 'glorified body' as it may only be suitable for the heavenly realm - Scripture is not clear on that so there is no reason to say that there is no spiritual body in heaven
The spiritual realm is another dimension that is unseen by the human eye but it is real none the less

seventysevens · Apr 8, 2018

Dig4truth said:
The human soul is the result of the breath of life, the God given spirit entering a suitable body whether physical or spiritual.

"Many people mistakenly teach that only humans have a soul, and that animals do not, but according to the Bible everything that has the breath of life is a living soul. Simply put, a soul is a living creature.

The difference is that God made mankind in His own image and gives them Eternal life

Animals are not created in the image of the Eternal God and are not given eternal life
You do not see any scripture speaking of animals being resurrected and given a new spiritual body that never dies

Dig4truth · Apr 8, 2018

seventysevens said:
The difference is that God made mankind in His own image and gives them Eternal life

Animals are not created in the image of the Eternal God and are not given eternal life
You do not see any scripture speaking of animals being resurrected and given a new spiritual body that never dies

That's true, we were created in God's image.
Can you see the "soul" more clearly now? It was a mystery to me for a long time but when it was explained it made sense finally.

If you read the first several pages of Immortal it begins with this topic because most everything else is related to it to some degree. The book is a really good resource for understanding this topic and you won't find it taught in most churches.

iamlamad · Apr 8, 2018

Dig4truth said:
And that is where your misunderstanding stems from.
To believe that the soul and spirit has changed because of the etymology of a word is not suggested.

We don't "posses" a soul, we are a soul. When the spirit or breath of life enters the body we "become" a living soul. See Gen 2.

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Do I believe that our mind, will and emotions are a part of our soul, yep.

Sorry, but your theory does not fit what Paul wrote.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Each part of our self is separate: the soul is separate from our Spirit and from our body. It must be so, because when God puts to death our old man (the old adamic human spirit) and recreated a NEW human psiriti with HIS DNA, (no longer and Adamic spirit) our sou (mind, will, emotions, memories, intellect) is not changed.

Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

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