Where gravity and forces come from..!

[Split Rock]

May I suggest Talofofo Falls?

I'm sure that a Resort Park like Talofofo Falls would be too open to too much of "man's (evil) wisdom." You and dad need to keep yourself pure from such evilness.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm sure that a Resort Park like Talofofo Falls would be too open to too much of "man's (evil) wisdom." You and dad need to keep yourself pure from such evilness.

What are you talking about?

The Talofofo Falls are a scenic series of cascades on the Talofofo River on the island of Guam. They are located in the southeast of the island, inland from Talofofo Bay.

My wife and I lived just a few miles from there in Tumon Village [Apts] in Tamuning.

On the above map, we lived at Point 11, and Talofofo Falls is at Point 7.

We later moved up to NCS, near Tarague Beach (9), and rode out Supertyphoon Pamela in Agana (1), the capital.

 

[Belk]

What are you talking about? My wife and I lived just a few miles from there in Tumon Village [Apts] in Tamuning.

On the above map, we lived at Point 11, and Talofofo Falls is at Point 7.

We later moved up to NCS, near Tarague Beach (9), and rode out Supertyphoon Pamela in Agana (1), the capital.

Is Guam as pretty as I hear?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is Guam as pretty as I hear?

Don't know -- how pretty did you hear it is?

 

[Split Rock]

What are you talking about? My wife and I lived just a few miles from there in Tumon Village [Apts] in Tamuning.

On the above map, we lived at Point 11, and Talofofo Falls is at Point 7.

We later moved up to NCS, near Tarague Beach (9), and rode out Supertyphoon Pamela in Agana (1), the capital.

I'm talking about this:
Talofofo Falls Resort Park

 

[Chris81]

I know I am entering this discussion late but I thought I would add my thoughts to the mix.

While Christians attribute gravity and other forces at work in the universe all to glory and to the will of God, I do not believe it diminishes God in the least to identify scientific explanations to the origins of forces such as gravity, electro magnetism, quantum mechanics, etc...

 

[Delphiki]

I know I am entering this discussion late but I thought I would add my thoughts to the mix.

While Christians attribute gravity and other forces at work in the universe all to glory and to the will of God, I do not believe it diminishes God in the least to identify scientific explanations to the origins of forces such as gravity, electro magnetism, quantum mechanics, etc...

Right, but what dad is asserting is that anything beyond what we don't yet know is God. The OP is really nothing more than an example of what "God of the gaps" means.

I'm sure if/when we know more, about the fundamental forces, people like dad will move the goal posts again by asking "Yeah, but where does that come from?" (assuming he doesn't outright refute any findings**). Again, it likely won't be God, it might also be eventually discovered and the cycle continues.



**I still wonder at what level in all fields do anti-intellectuals consider the science behind something "fairytale magic doo doo". Where is the line drawn exactly?

 

[Chris81]

Right, but what dad is asserting is that anything beyond what we don't yet know is God. The OP is really nothing more than an example of what "God of the gaps" means.

I'm sure if/when we know more, about the fundamental forces, people like dad will move the goal posts again by asking "Yeah, but where does that come from?" (assuming he doesn't outright refute any findings**). Again, it likely won't be God, it might also be eventually discovered and the cycle continues.



**I still wonder at what level in all fields do anti-intellectuals consider the science behind something "fairytale magic doo doo". Where is the line drawn exactly?

Yeah the "God of gaps" agrument actually makes for bad theology because it assumes God is only present or active in areas in which science yet has an answer for. God becomes nothing more than the plumber who fixes the stuff you don't understand. What happens when you pick up the plumbers manual and learn to fix it yourself? You no longer need the plumber. Likewise the "God of gaps" argument can actually lead to the case that God is irrelevant as we learn more and more about inner workings of our universe through science. As Christians we should dump such bad theology, which until modern times had no place in traditional Christianity.

 

[Delphiki]

Chris81,

Thank you for being a a breath of fresh air.

For what it's worth, I consider myself an agnostic pantheist, so I concur with everything you just said.

My agnosticism basically means that God can't be proven, but it has nothing to do with what we learn through science. It's just the infinite nature of what a god is as I define it that keeps it unprovable. The pantheist part of me is a direct opposite of "god of the gaps" because I define "god" as existing as the entire universe (including beyond what humans will ever discover about it). Give this thing a sentience of sorts and you have what I would call a god.

Maybe that's why I find god-of-the-gaps so frustrating.

 

[Chris81]

Chris81,

Thank you for being a a breath of fresh air.

For what it's worth, I consider myself an agnostic pantheist, so I concur with everything you just said.

My agnosticism basically means that God can't be proven, but it has nothing to do with what we learn through science. It's just the infinite nature of what a god is as I define it that keeps it unprovable. The pantheist part of me is a direct opposite of "god of the gaps" because I define "god" as existing as the entire universe (including beyond what humans will ever discover about it). Give this thing a sentience of sorts and you have what I would call a god.

Maybe that's why I find god-of-the-gaps so frustrating.

Thank you sir, and yes I agree God is not a Gap!

 

[dad]

I know I am entering this discussion late but I thought I would add my thoughts to the mix.

While Christians attribute gravity and other forces at work in the universe all to glory and to the will of God, I do not believe it diminishes God in the least to identify scientific explanations to the origins of forces such as gravity, electro magnetism, quantum mechanics, etc...

Me either. Too bad it has been admitted here that science doesn't know.

 

[dad]

Right, but what dad is asserting is that anything beyond what we don't yet know is God. The OP is really nothing more than an example of what "God of the gaps" means.

I'm sure if/when we know more, about the fundamental forces, people like dad will move the goal posts again by asking "Yeah, but where does that come from?" (assuming he doesn't outright refute any findings**). Again, it likely won't be God, it might also be eventually discovered and the cycle continues.



**I still wonder at what level in all fields do anti-intellectuals consider the science behind something "fairytale magic doo doo". Where is the line drawn exactly?

This amounts to prophesy. ..As if science will be here to forever fumble and drop the ball. No.

 

[dad]

Yeah the "God of gaps" agrument actually makes for bad theology because it assumes God is only present or active in areas in which science yet has an answer for. God becomes nothing more than the plumber who fixes the stuff you don't understand. What happens when you pick up the plumbers manual and learn to fix it yourself?

Man can't fix the universe, or even his world. Haven't noticed yet?

You no longer need the plumber.

Man will never get to the place of not needing God. Pure pipe dream.

Likewise the "God of gaps" argument can actually lead to the case that God is irrelevant as we learn more and more about inner workings of our universe through science. As Christians we should dump such bad theology, which until modern times had no place in traditional Christianity.

Noo idea what a God of gaps is. However, science is full of gaps.

 

[dad]

Matthew 11:20-24, Matt. 14:31-32, Matt. 25:41-47, Mark 6:11, Mark 16:16, Luke 10:10-15, Luke 13:3, Luke 19:22-27, John 3:18 & 3:36, and John 15:6. In other words, open any gospel and start reading.

I have. Point?

Your personal assurance doesn't mean much to me, and it's particularly humorous to me that you request my sources right before making these bold and unverifiable assertions. It suggests that you care a little more for objectivity when it comes to those criticizing your religion than when it comes to determining if it's true or not.

What unverifiable assertions?

Why not take it? I have to laugh at these questions, so full of the same flaws as Pascal's Wager. If I don't actually believe or see the truth in something, why take it "just in case"? Isn't your god all-knowing and doesn't he supposedly value faith over fire-insurance conversions? My question would be, why believe we need salvation in the first place?

Because even a fool knows that he won't live forever. We need a gift of eternal life.

They offered death to their victims, but I guarantee you they thought their religion was offering them salvation. Christianity had its share of crusaders, inquisitions, and witch prosecutors too, not to mention that God's initial offer to humanity, according to Paul, was death (2 Corinthians 3:7). Hey, you and the hijackers have more in common with your beliefs than you thought...

Science and religion can be and are used by sinful men for their purposes.

 

[dad]

How is that any more difficult to accept than an intelligence of unknown origins popping the universe out of his imagination?

If an unknown source did stuff it is very different than a known source. Science claims to know. We can question what we know. Fact is they do not actually know, and that is why we have a problem.

 

[dad]

Yes, I rub a little on my elbows and knees now and then to prevent irritation and flaking.



Wow, did you really forget 2 posts of history? You made a straw man argument. Stop playing town idiot, for once, would you?

Stop making stuff up. If you claim a strawman argument, you need to identify it.

No, they recreate the environment of an early earth in a lab.

No. They tinker with creation in a lab, or smash stuff in a collider. Like children playing. Any connection to their imaginary same state past derived fantasy world is purely coincidental.

We have the means and technology to do this, you know (and even that is pretty old technology). Most humans in general are actually a lot smarter than you, I've discovered. You'd be amazed!

Those that think they are clever, I have found usually have most to learn.

I travel into the future at a rate of 1 second per second.

So does science. Yet it claims stiuff for billions of years into the future. Thanks for that.

Where are getting this "magic" idea from? You're the one that believes in magic, not me. The stuff I know actually has evidence.

The stuff anyone knows has evidence. The fables of so called science are not included in what is known.

When someone calls your god "a magic sky daddy" it's because all the stuff he does is performed by unrealistic, impossible, and non-physical means..

Non physical is not saying much. Of course the past and future and spiritual are non physical only. If cave man science folks think it is 'magic' that means nothing more than how it seems to them.

I'm glad you found it helpful. I'd like to get this idea that the moon and gravity are magic out of your head. Look, just because something isn't evident as showing God did it, doesn't mean it was magic. Most things.. well actually ALL things, you'll find, have reasonable explanations to them. The endless goal in science is to find these explanations.

The way they pretend the moon was made is magic. So is the big bang...etc. Get over it.

Well, when nearly every theist tells you that you need religion for morals.. and yet... I have morals..

So did Cain.

From what your demographic tells me, you need to be afraid of God and going to hell to be a good person.

?? Who told you that?? The saved are....saved. No hell is in the picture anymore. That is the good news. Very good news.

You need to believe in God, apparently, because otherwise you'd go amok -- at least that's what you people like to tell me.

I would probably be dead long ago if not for God. Or worse.

 

[Chris81]

Man can't fix the universe, or even his world. Haven't noticed yet?

Yes, man has made a mess of the world but yet that has nothing to do with my post.

My post was an analogy about how God of Gaps makes for bad theology. Again, if we state that God is present in those areas which science can not explain we put unnecessary limits on God. I however believe God is present and his will is active in all matter of our universe whether or not they can be explained by science. I do not believe that God can be proven or disproven by science but I am alright with that because the foundation of my belief is through my faith in Christ.

Man will never get to the place of not needing God. Pure pipe dream.

As a Christian I certainly know I need God! However you seem to be missing my point again.

If we say that God is only active in those areas that we attribute, purely to miracles or unexplained phenomenon of science, we actually provide the means to disprove God. Why, because as we grow in greater understanding of the universe through science, more and more unexplained phenomenons are further explained and such a case for God becomes weak. The God of Gaps argument is not the right approach to defend Christianity.

Noo idea what a God of gaps is. However, science is full of gaps.

I would recommend just doing a google search on the topic. I am sure you will find many great resources.

If you are arguing about some of the various gaps in science and claiming them as proof of God's existence, you are most certainly are advocating the God of Gaps argument.

 

[dad]

Yes, man has made a mess of the world but yet that has nothing to do with my post.

My post was an analogy about how God of Gaps makes for bad theology. If we state that God is present in those areas which science can not explain we put unnecessary limits on God.

Nonsense. Says who?? I think you are missing something somewhere. The gaps in what man knows are not all that God fills.

As we grow in greater understanding of how the world works the God of Gaps doctrine leaves less and less involvement for God in the inner workings of this universe.

But it has been admitted that man has not grown to understand what the fundamental forces really are, and time. That means you have almost ALL gap! Don't blame God if He fills the lack of knowledge science has.

I however believe God is present and his will is active in all matter of our universe whether or not they can be explained by science. I do not believe that God can be proven or disproven by science but I am alright with that because the foundation of my belief is through my faith in Christ.

Not sure this says anything.

As a Christian I certainly know I need God! However you seem to be missing my point again.

Perhaps you have not articulated a point yet.

If we say that God is only active in those areas that we attribute, purely to miracles or unexplained phenomenon of science, we actually provide the means to disprove God.

Who says such silly things? And what has that got to do with anything??

Why, because as we grow in greater understanding of the universe through science, more and more unexplained phenomenon are further explained and such a case for God becomes weak. The God of Gaps argument is not the right approach to defend Christianity.

Why tell me this? I don't even know what this strawman argument is. Obviously science has gaps galore. So??

I would recommend just doing a google search on the topic. I am sure you will find many great resources.

"God of the gaps refers to a view of God as existing in the "gaps" or aspects of reality that are currently unexplained by scientific knowledge"

wiki


Done. So? Obviously physical only present state science can't explain God. This is news? Or do you think it can!? Mooted either way.

If you are arguing about some of the various gaps in science and claiming them as proof of God's existence, you are most certainly are advocating the God of Gaps argument.

No. Not me. I flaunt the gaping gaps of godless science merely to hang IT out to dry. And die. ..Not to "prove God". That is already a done deal.

 

[Chris81]

Nonsense. Says who?? I think you are missing something somewhere. The gaps in what man knows are not all that God fills.

But it has been admitted that man has not grown to understand what the fundamental forces really are, and time. That means you have almost ALL gap! Don't blame God if He fills the lack of knowledge science has.

Not sure this says anything.




Perhaps you have not articulated a point yet.

Who says such silly things? And what has that got to do with anything??

Why tell me this? I don't even know what this strawman argument is. Obviously science has gaps galore. So??


"God of the gaps refers to a view of God as existing in the "gaps" or aspects of reality that are currently unexplained by scientific knowledge"

wiki


Done. So? Obviously physical only present state science can't explain God. This is news? Or do you think it can!? Mooted either way.


No. Not me. I flaunt the gaping gaps of godless science merely to hang IT out to dry. And die. ..Not to "prove God". That is already a done deal.

Forget about it!

You seem too stubbornly bent on some personal vendetta against science to understand that none of that matters in relations to the validity of God. Well I am done with this thread for the time being anyways, I may chirp in sometime latter if it is possible for me to add anything of value. Good night!

 

[dad]

Forget about it!

You seem too stubbornly bent on some personal vendetta against science to understand that none of that matters in relations to the validity of God. Well I am done with this thread for the time being anyways, I may chirp in sometime latter if it is possible for me to add anything of value. Good night!

Science doesn't much matter. I agree. It cannot validate God. Or not. Of course it's claims that would invalidate Him are null and void. Next time you chirp, sing us a point.