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I would have to agree that all the forces were set up by God, that govern this temporary state we live in. I also agree that He sets it all up for the eternal state.God does.
Gravity works on us in just the right measure.
Just a tad weaker, and we wouldn't be able to breathe.
Just a tad stronger, and we wouldn't be able to breathe.
That's called the Anthropic Principle, and only God can tweak the universe to our specs.
So did evolution tweak the basic forces into the right specs to? What, evolutiondunit?Except that it is evolution that has tweaked us to just the right specs. Most of the universe, almost all of it, except only some small fraction of the surface of a dust mote in an unimaginable immensity, would kill us dead in seconds.
And that is the anthropic principle.
Of course there are Christians who believe this, but thats because they are credulous.
Now now..tut tut.as with most Christian religious beliefs, they are simply not true.
If you think these beliefs are true then demonstrate that to us. Explain to us what sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to reach the conclusion that your God created gravity.
Right, and when they cease to exist, I guess we wouldn't know what we were missing! And if something else exists far away, we wouldn't know that either. The issue is not that man has caught on to how God set it up in man's world.Alright "dad".
If it wasn't for science you wouldn't actually know there was a gravity, weak force, strong force, atoms, energy, etc.
In fact, just about everything you do know (that's actually real), you can thank science for because it surely didn't come from the bible.
I'm sure, though, that when science has a better explanation for these forces, that you're comfortable with, you tell us that it was already in the bible.
Like how a flat earth in the bible was later interpreted to be a round earth and how "it always said it was round".
The forces of this world are here while this world exists as it is. How long will that be? Just like you do not know a thing about where the fundamental forces come from, you do not know how long they will last.Well, here's my suggestion. If the bible is all knowing with regards to nature, then tell us what it says about gravity to save mankind the trouble.
Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
The Bible does not mention the word 'gravity', per se; but It mentions gravity's effect; the same effect Newton observed when he discovered this gravity.
Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
The Bible does not mention the word 'gravity', per se; but It mentions gravity's effect; the same effect Newton observed when he discovered this gravity.
At the snort of the Bull of Heaven a huge pit opened up,
and 100 Young Men of Uruk fell in.
The epic of Gilgamesh, tablet VI
Anyhow, yes, you have admitted science is a total failure, and utterly incompetent and unable to tell us where the basic forces we know in man's world come from, or why they have to be this way, etc. All you do is add 'they haven't managed it yet'!!!!! Hilarious.
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Strawman. The incompetence referred to was regarding knowing how the fundamental forces and laws came to be, and exactly what they are.LOL! Strange how all our technology is based on this "total failure, and utterly incompetent" science.
The forces of this world are here while this world exists as it is. How long will that be? Just like you do not know a thing about where the fundamental forces come from, you do not know how long they will last.
Strawman. The incompetence referred to was regarding knowing how the fundamental forces and laws came to be, and exactly what they are.
Shameful.
I agree that currently no one knows for sure what causes gravity, because we don’t yet have enough sound evidence to come to a conclusion. What makes Christians credulous is that they believe they do know what causes gravity, despite a complete lack of sound evidence to support their belief that their God created it or even that their God exists.It has been admitted here in this thread that science does not know how the fundamental forces work, what they really are, how they got here etc!! Dare you disagree with that? If so, do show us the details!
Until then, which will be forever and a day past the twelfth of never, you really are in no position at all to judge what is credible. That is a classic argument from ignorance.
What’s your objection? It is clear that most Christian religious beliefs depend on one core belief: that your God is real. If your God isn’t real then it didn’t create anything, you are not made in its image, it doesn’t answer prayers, Jesus was not its son and it won’t grant you eternal life. The core belief that your God is real is not true so all of the beliefs that depend on it are not true as well. Again, if you think your belief that your God is real is correct then demonstrate that to us. Explain to us the sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to arrive at that conclusion.dad said:Now now..tut tut.3sigma said:as with most Christian religious beliefs, they are simply not true.
Those beliefs, of course. As you said in your OP, Christians believe their God created gravity. I’m asking you to demonstrate that your belief is correct. Explain to us what sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to reach the conclusion that your God created gravity.What beliefs?
…
What we have pointed out here is that Christians believe a certain way.
No. If scientists don’t know something, but have ideas about it then those ideas are hypotheses that need to be tested and confirmed or refuted. They are not beliefs and certainly nothing like the unsubstantiated beliefs that religious believers hold. Most Christian religious beliefs are completely unsubstantiated and simply not true.Now, since you and science do not know, obviously any ideas you may have are belief too.
The beauty of making these absurd claims is that as long as it doesn't happen, you can keep saying "It hasn't happened yet."
Where are you even getting the idea that gravity will disappear, anyway?
No Strawman dad. All science is interconnected and all science is based on the same methodology. You want to pick and choose what you will accept and what you won't, but you cannot do so and still maintain any continuity.
The bible is of practical benefit to man. It inspires charity, and has provided a way of salvation for man. Not knowing what time is or gravity, or spin, or nuclear forces, etc is of no benefit to anyone.Of what practical benefit is your ....
That star is beyond your knowledge as well. If you can't even tell us what the forces in our own backyard are, why look for a red herring far away??I will make it simple for you, dad. What is the size and average distance from earth of the star Betelgeuse (Alpha Orionis)? According to "total failure, and utterly incompetent" science, it is a red supergiant star that is 18-19 times as large as our sun and is 643 ± 146 light years away from us.
Betelgeuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tell us the real truth about this star, dad.
I agree that currently no one knows for sure what causes gravity, because we dont yet have enough sound evidence to come to a conclusion.
What makes Christians credulous is that they believe they do know what causes gravity, despite a complete lack of sound evidence to support their belief that their God created it or even that their God exists.
Whats your objection? It is clear that most Christian religious beliefs depend on one core belief: that your God is real. If your God isnt real then it didnt create anything, you are not made in its image, it doesnt answer prayers, Jesus was not its son and it wont grant you eternal life. The core belief that your God is real is not true so all of the beliefs that depend on it are not true as well. Again, if you think your belief that your God is real is correct then demonstrate that to us. Explain to us the sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to arrive at that conclusion.
Those beliefs, of course. As you said in your OP, Christians believe their God created gravity. Im asking you to demonstrate that your belief is correct. Explain to us what sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to reach the conclusion that your God created gravity.
No. If scientists dont know something, but have ideas about it then those ideas are hypotheses that need to be tested and confirmed or refuted.
They are not beliefs and certainly nothing like the unsubstantiated beliefs that religious believers hold. Most Christian religious beliefs are completely unsubstantiated and simply not true.
Gravity as they explained in junior high, is caused by a body's mass as it exists in the timespace. The body somehow bend the time space alittle causing satellites of that body spin around it in circles. When timespace is bent the objects close to the body are attracted to the body's centrum.
To revoke natural laws we need another perception of them, don't we?
To explain gravity in a 2D plane, would be like sticking a bowling ball on a trampoline, the trampoline is space, the ball is the sun, the indentation of the trampoline is gravity. Things arn't pulled towards it or spin around it, they spin around the warp in space formed by the object. If you were to take a marble and send it rolling past the bowling ball fast enough, it goes in and out with a slight change in direction. You roll a marble too slow and it gets pulled right in towards the bowling ball. Right speed and the marble circles around the bowling ball tilll it falls towards it due to friction, in space there is no friction, so the marble will continue to spin around it continually, this is how gravity works.Gravity as they explained in junior high, is caused by a body's mass as it exists in the timespace. The body somehow bend the time space alittle causing satellites of that body spin around it in circles. When timespace is bent the objects close to the body are attracted to the body's centrum.
To revoke natural laws we need another perception of them, don't we?
No, it isn’t a free-for-all if one has an ounce of reason and intellectual honesty. When there is a lack of sound evidence supporting any conclusion, reasonable people don’t leap to any conclusion they feel like. Only credulous people jump to conclusions unsupported by any sound evidence. Christians such as yourself have leapt to the conclusion that your God created gravity, despite a complete lack of sound evidence supporting that credulous conclusion. There is zero sound evidence that your God even exists.It doesn't matter what anyone believes in relation to the forces. Once it is admitted you do not know, it is a free for all.
What a classic case of projection and lack of self-awareness. Scientists don’t believe they know what created gravity. Scientists have no such belief. Those with beliefs that have masqueraded as science here are the Christians. It is Christians who believe they know what created gravity. However, that unsubstantiated belief is not correct.We are just trying to bust those with beliefs that have masqueraded as science here!
What you are saying here is: “I don’t know what causes gravity, but not knowing makes me anxious so I’m going to assume an answer that reinforces my comforting religious beliefs and I’m unable or unwilling to investigate any further.”I do not need to know how God sets up laws and forces. I do not need to know a lot of things.
Actually, I do have a way of knowing that. After decades of asking Christians questions about their beliefs, their responses have shown me that most of their religious beliefs are unsubstantiated and not true. Your responses confirm it. You too will be unable to show me that your beliefs that your God is real or that it created gravity are substantiated or true.You have no way of knowing that 'Most Christian religious beliefs are completely unsubstantiated and simply not true'
That's pretty close -- some think they are the habitats of angels.On stars, i've said this before, but i believe stars are ancient heros who looks down at us. Jesus had a star!!
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