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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Where does "allah" say...
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Ignorance is not when a person preach something which is acknowledged by scholars around the globe.
I can present 4 different translations which go against your translation of what you post.
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And....
None of your googled renderings would show any exegetical reasoning whatsoever...
Be honest with yourself...
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me the sinner? I don't beleive in all this.I beleive in the one true God the one and only creator of the universe. the one who created Jesus and the world he sent him in.
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka
james the just
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We're not talking about islam, brother....we are talking about specific ayahs in the Koran...
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Islam consists of Teachings of Prophets, Way of Allah represented in Qur'aan and Hadith.
When you are talkng about a specific ayah basically you are talking about Islam which is a guidence to those who mend ways and a warrning.
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- Aug 30, 2008
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I am just going to take a side issue. Revelation (that which comes from God) should be continuous, i.e. we should have revelation (communication from God) today. I am going to share one of the latest revelations that I recieved from God to show you what I mean.
I was praying asking God to reveal to me ways to scientifically cure illnesses. At the same time I asked,just for fun, if I could be allowed to create a dinasour, why not I thought nothing is impossible with God. Instantly the term "I bood" entered my mind. I looked up the term on the internet to see what He ment. I found it out the term "BOOD" was used by an Asian tribe to say " I respectfully and lovingly ask that you respect my right to say NO. So God himself told me NO, but in a loving way.
Am I a God at hand, saith Jehovah, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places so that I shall not see him? saith Jehovah. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith Jehovah. Jer 23:23-24
I was praying asking God to reveal to me ways to scientifically cure illnesses. At the same time I asked,just for fun, if I could be allowed to create a dinasour, why not I thought nothing is impossible with God. Instantly the term "I bood" entered my mind. I looked up the term on the internet to see what He ment. I found it out the term "BOOD" was used by an Asian tribe to say " I respectfully and lovingly ask that you respect my right to say NO. So God himself told me NO, but in a loving way.
Am I a God at hand, saith Jehovah, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places so that I shall not see him? saith Jehovah. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith Jehovah. Jer 23:23-24
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Secundulus
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Then you have absolutely no understanding at all of what Jesus taught.
" Now while he was at table in the house it happened that a number of tax collectors and sinners came to sit at the table with Jesus and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, Why does your master eat with tax collectors and sinners? When he heard this he replied, It is not the healthy who need the doctor, but the sick. Go and learn the meaning of the words: Mercy is what pleases me, not sacrifice. And indeed I came to call not the upright, but sinners." (Matthew 9:10-13, NJB)
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Again...we are not interested in islam, nor ahadiths.
Please inform us of the "way" of "allah" as described in the Koran, only.
False.
You need to divorce yourself from Islam when discussing a Koranic ayah - or else you will forever be jaded in your viewpoint.
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Then this leaves out the pagan Arab god "allah" as revealed in the Koran.
The "allah" of the Koran cannot even state in the first-person singular that he created anything at all.
Nothing.
Zero.
The Koranic "allah" has no power to create. Never has. never will. He is a false god. He is Satan, himself, dressed-up to appear to the ignorant that he is something other than what he truly is.
Time to wake up...
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- Aug 30, 2008
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Hi,
I come back to my question. Revelation (words from God) should be still available to us today, as God is the same today as he was in the beginning. He always chose to reveal himself to the prophets. I ask you to respond to the following true story.
I awoke one morning and the sentence entered my mind "How would you like to be stabbed in the valley". The valley was the tough end of town, a place full of drugs and violence. I was going to the valley that day and felt afraid, wondering if I was going to be stabbed. I went any way to ask people out to church. The first person I met was an athiest, he said "I don't believe in God", and asked me some question regarding salvation. He then said to me "Here is why I don't believe in God", he opened up his shirt and showed me scars in his stomach and chest. He said "I was attacked by a knife weilding mad man, and spent months in hospital recovering; that is why I don't believe in God". A while latter I remembered what had been said that morning: "How would I like to be stabbed", I knew I would not like it, and God was saying to me he understood Simon Murray. So I told him about the vision, a week or so latter he gave his heart back to Jesus, and became a Christian.
The question I have for our Muslum friends is God (Jesus) is an alive God who still, walks with , and talks to his people. They need to repent and follow the true Jesus as referred to in the bible. Please do not supress the truth, rather turn to it and be saved.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
I come back to my question. Revelation (words from God) should be still available to us today, as God is the same today as he was in the beginning. He always chose to reveal himself to the prophets. I ask you to respond to the following true story.
I awoke one morning and the sentence entered my mind "How would you like to be stabbed in the valley". The valley was the tough end of town, a place full of drugs and violence. I was going to the valley that day and felt afraid, wondering if I was going to be stabbed. I went any way to ask people out to church. The first person I met was an athiest, he said "I don't believe in God", and asked me some question regarding salvation. He then said to me "Here is why I don't believe in God", he opened up his shirt and showed me scars in his stomach and chest. He said "I was attacked by a knife weilding mad man, and spent months in hospital recovering; that is why I don't believe in God". A while latter I remembered what had been said that morning: "How would I like to be stabbed", I knew I would not like it, and God was saying to me he understood Simon Murray. So I told him about the vision, a week or so latter he gave his heart back to Jesus, and became a Christian.
The question I have for our Muslum friends is God (Jesus) is an alive God who still, walks with , and talks to his people. They need to repent and follow the true Jesus as referred to in the bible. Please do not supress the truth, rather turn to it and be saved.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
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Can you take the soul and keep the body alive? No Right?
Similarly you talk about Islam yet you can't seperate Qur'aan and Ahadiths.
Qur'aan teaches Obey Allah and Obey the Rasool, so you have no choice to pick between Qur'aan and Hadith.
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If the worlds best islamic scholar and worlds best christian scholar were to debate, I'd be there in a wink! Very interesting debate, you two were having. I admit I havnt gone through the whole thread, it looks quite long!
Just wanted to say this whole debating thing is good, people should discuss their religions, compare, share knowledge etc more.
Just wanted to say this whole debating thing is good, people should discuss their religions, compare, share knowledge etc more.
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24:54
Say: "Obey Allah and obey the Rasool. If you do not, the Rasool is still under obligation to fulfill his duty, as you are under obligation to fulfill
yours; and if you obey him, you shall be rightly guided. Note it well that the responsibility of the Rasool is only to deliver Allah's message
clearly."
3:32
Also tell them, "Obey Allah and His Rasool." Inspite of this, if they turn back then warn them, that Allah does not love the disobedient.
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These ayahs tell us what we already know...and that is to obey Jesus Christ.
Your task is to show us a Koranic ayah which mandates that ahadiths are inseparable from the Koran....such as you claimed...
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Ahadiths are sayings of the Rasool (Prophet).
Qur'aan teaches: Obey Allah and Obey the Rasool.
When Allah is saying Obey the Rasool, how will you know what Rasool said and done 1400 years ago, if you don't read Ahadith?
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"Ahadith" is plural to begin with, and refers to Biblical narratives, as thus...
12.5
Genesis…Joseph’s dream…
نحن نقص عليك أحسن القصص بما أوحينا
إليك هذا القرءان وإن كنت من قبله لمن الغفلين
إذ قال يوسف لأبيه يأبت إني رأيت أحد عشر
كوكبا والشمس والقمر رأيتهم لي سجدين قال يبني لا تقصص رءياك على إخوتك فيكيدوا لك كيدا إن الشيطن للإنسن عدو مبين وكذلك يجتبيك ربك ويعلمك من تأويل الأحاديث ويتم نعمته عليك وعلى ءال يعقوب كما أتمها على أبويك من قبل إبرهيم وإسحق إن ربك عليم حكيم
Nahnu naqussu AAalayka ahsana alqasasi bima awhayna ilayka hatha alqur-ana wa-in kunta min qablihi lamina alghafileena iIth qala yoosufu li-abeehi ya abati innee raaytu ahada AAashara kawkaban waalshshamsa waalqamara raaytuhum lee sajideena qala ya bunayya la taqsus ru/yaka AAala ikhwatika fayakeedoo laka kaydan inna alshshaytana lil-insani AAaduwwun mubeenun wakathalika yajtabeeka rabbuka wayuAAallimuka min ta/weeli al-ahadeethi wayutimmu niAAmatahu AAalayka waAAala ali yaAAqooba kama atammaha AAala abawayka min qablu ibraheema wa-ishaqa inna rabbaka AAaleemun hakeemun
We, we relate on you, he did the narrative excellently, with what we revealed to you, this, The Collection, and truly you were from before it from the unmindful ones. When Joseph said to his father: "O! My dear father that I, I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon, I saw them those who prostrate themselves to me." Say: "O! My dear son, relate not your dream to your brothers, so they devise to you an artful device, truly the devil to mankind is a clear enemy.” And likewise, your Lord, He chooses you and He teaches you by explanation, the narratives, and completes His blessing on you, and on Jacob's (Israel) people, just as He completed it on your fathers from before, Abraham and Isaac, truly your Lord who knows, wise. (12.3 – 6)
These ayahs are in the heart of paraphrased Biblical Genesis material (i.e. referred to here as “the narrative”
, and confirms what is already readily apparent, i.e. that the Koran (the collection) is merely reformatted Biblical material.These ayahs recall Jacob’s (Israel) son, Joseph, and his “eleven star” dream in which his brothers devise an artful device (kaydan) against him.
These ayahs pertain to the lineage of Isaac/Israel.
Further, these ayahs confirm that the Lord’s blessing is completed through Israel’s people.
Perhaps you want to "re-think" your understanding of "ahadith"....
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