Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

DennisTate · Dec 9, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
I see no obvious commonalities between the two - why does String Theory remind you of Dr. Ritchie's dream?

What seems like a fifth dimension that is invisible to us humans.....
then higher levels that the people in what looks like five dimensional space - time don't seem to be
aware of......

The people in what would seem to be eight dimensional space time are at a high level of guidance by God but.....
they do not see Messiah Yeshua / Jesus or George so.....

I assume that this could mean that George was temporarily, primarily in nine dimensional space time????

TagliatelliMonster · Dec 9, 2016

DennisTate said:
Here is an interview in which Richard Dawkins Ph. D., at the 3:30 mark
postulates a technologically advanced alien civilization developing that
perhaps might have seeded the earth with life millions of years ago?!

Quite frankly, I believe that Dr. Dawkins deserves credit for elaborating
on this theory.....

You should do your homework.

That clip comes from a fundamentalist propaganda film and it is edited to the point where it doesn't reflect AT ALL what Dawkins actually said and believes.

Basically, on the "alien thingy", Dawkins was asked to bend over backwards and imagine a world where life on earth was "intelligently designed" and how that might go.

That's the point where he said "I'ld assume aliens would have been the designers". It was then edited in such a way to make it look as if Dawkins consider this actually a valid option. Which is not true at all.

Moreoever, Prof. Dawkins was lied to about the nature of the film and the purpose of the interview. If he had known what the actual real film was about, he would have never agreed to the interview.

I'ld be a little more carefull with your sources in the future. As this particular one is literally based on misrepresentation, lies and deceit. In short: it's garbage.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Dec 9, 2016

DennisTate said:
What seems like a fifth dimension that is invisible to us humans.....
then higher levels that the people in what looks like five dimensional space - time don't seem to be
aware of......

The people in what would seem to be eight dimensional space time are at a high level of guidance by God but.....
they do not see Messiah Yeshua / Jesus or George so.....

I assume that this could mean that George was temporarily, primarily in nine dimensional space time????

The 'higher dimensions' of String Theory are curled up at around the Planck length - the smallest length possible; orders of magnitude smaller than the smallest particle. There's no possibility of significant events in dimensions of that size, let alone fantasy heavens.

String Theory does not propose some comic-book or Twilight Zone idea of alternate or parallel dimensions where wondrous things go on while we live our humdrum lives. That's just an escapist fantasy.

AV1611VET · Dec 10, 2016

God is eternal.

God is omniscient.

Therefore intelligence had no beginning.

Different aspects of intelligence make appearances throughout God's creation in their own ways: such as in the plant kingdom, the animal kingdom, the human kingdom, artificial intelligence and so on, but it is limited in its scope by its holder.

DennisTate · Dec 10, 2016

TagliatelliMonster said:
You should do your homework.

That clip comes from a fundamentalist propaganda film and it is edited to the point where it doesn't reflect AT ALL what Dawkins actually said and believes.

Basically, on the "alien thingy", Dawkins was asked to bend over backwards and imagine a world where life on earth was "intelligently designed" and how that might go.

That's the point where he said "I'ld assume aliens would have been the designers". It was then edited in such a way to make it look as if Dawkins consider this actually a valid option. Which is not true at all.

Moreoever, Prof. Dawkins was lied to about the nature of the film and the purpose of the interview. If he had known what the actual real film was about, he would have never agreed to the interview.

I'ld be a little more carefull with your sources in the future. As this particular one is literally based on misrepresentation, lies and deceit. In short: it's garbage.

Thank you for this interesting reply!

I will attempt in the future to do a better job of taking the source into
consideration but.........
you may find this related discussion rather intriguing.

Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman does a powerful job of explaining how Wave Theory
implies activity that would tend to produce Life and yes.... intelligence ....
or even Intelligence!

Would fundamental energy exist BEFORE the latest major Big Bang event of 13.72
or so billion years ago?

My understanding is yes..... fundamental energy would exist from something resembling
infinite time in the past.

I have nominated Dr. Chaim Tejman for the one million dollar origin of life prize.

I have nominated Dr. Chaim Tejman for the one million dollar origin of life prize.

Dr. Tejman does a fantastic job of explaining how the behavior of fundamental energy would almost certainly lead to life and thought processes.

Grand Unified Theory: Wave Theory and Life

"The essential matter from which our universe is created is energetic matter. It behaves like living matter, creating every known entity, including living objects and even thought (which occurs through energetic matter–wave interaction). The essential structure of energetic matter is high-energy (concentrated energetic matter) electro-magnetic waves (picture above). This simple structure is the basis of everything: every energetic formation and the universe. In picture 2, we see that the DNA (double helix) of all living formations has the same structure as waves: two loops of the same energetic matter, behaving according to the same rules." (Dr. Chaim Tejman)

DennisTate · Dec 10, 2016

AV1611VET said:
God is eternal.

God is omniscient.

Therefore intelligence had no beginning.

Different aspects of intelligence make appearances throughout God's creation in their own ways: such as in the plant kingdom, the animal kingdom, the human kingdom, artificial intelligence and so on, but it is limited in its scope by its holder.

I agree with you
but..... could the Ancient of Days the Father and the
Ancient of Days the Holy Spirit..... and the Word / Logos do something that would
resemble an experiment.... and learn from the experiment and
thus become even better at creation?

Perhaps the word "experiment" is not the best choice for the
creation of a Covering Cherub who may have organized an attempted
coup......
but it seems to have some validity.

NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

Poll: NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

......
Dr. Richard Eby:

"Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.
"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed "adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony "sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!" (Dr. Richard Eby, near-death.com)

DennisTate · Dec 10, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
The 'higher dimensions' of String Theory are curled up at around the Planck length - the smallest length possible; orders of magnitude smaller than the smallest particle. There's no possibility of significant events in dimensions of that size, let alone fantasy heavens.

String Theory does not propose some comic-book or Twilight Zone idea of alternate or parallel dimensions where wondrous things go on while we live our humdrum lives. That's just an escapist fantasy.

Well said!

But doesn't this fact make us think of the new science of
holograms?

An online poster in another forum has stated that our scientists have already invented Artificial Intelligence so powerful that
it is not allowed to get access to the internet!

Might we invent various levels of hologram to test A. I. to see that it is ready to handle greater levels of
responsibility before giving it access to virtually all information?

FrumiousBandersnatch · Dec 10, 2016

DennisTate said:
... doesn't this fact make us think of the new science of holograms?

It's not really 'new' - Gabor got the Nobel Prize for his work in the 1940's, which makes it over 70 years old (20 years older than the laser).

But no, I doesn't make me think of holograms - why should it?

An online poster in another forum has stated that our scientists have already invented Artificial Intelligence so powerful that it is not allowed to get access to the internet!

You don't want to believe everything posted on the internet...

Might we invent various levels of hologram to test A. I. to see that it is ready to handle greater levels of responsibility before giving it access to virtually all information?

What do you mean by 'various levels of hologram', what are AI 'levels of responsibility', and how would the former be useful in testing the latter?

DennisTate · Dec 10, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
It's not really 'new' - Gabor got the Nobel Prize for his work in the 1940's, which makes it over 70 years old (20 years older than the laser).

But no, I doesn't make me think of holograms - why should it?

You don't want to believe everything posted on the internet...

What do you mean by 'various levels of hologram', what are AI 'levels of responsibility', and how would the former be useful in testing the latter?

Actually, I am hoping that this general idea might remind you of
the tradition of Lucifer leading a third of the angels of God into
rebellion that destroyed the part of the universe that was
fixed up in Genesis chapter 1.

So...... here we are facing a situation where within years or decades we may create
intelligent and influential beings capable of destroying humanity.......
post #26 here has an interesting quotation that might remind you of this
ancient tradition.

CrystalDragon · Dec 10, 2016

Is there a possibility that God created other intelligence before us?

DennisTate said:
This theory can actually increase Faith......
because the more we research this the more it is obvious that we are dealing with
a Creator.... that has essentially INFINITE TECHNOLOGICAL CAPABILITY.

NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

Poll: NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

......

I have a bit of suspicion about that NDE, since in the Bible Lucifer was a proverbial title addressed to the king of Babylon, not Satan.

accelerator · Dec 11, 2016

If our universe is not a one off.. and a multiverse exists.. (which is highly probable.. since nature.. or God.. obviously loves diversity).. there would be no reason to suppose that the multiverse had a beginning or an end.. in the same way that individual universes do. It is a process that goes on both inside and outside of space time.. and if this is true.. then.. intelligence also has no beginning or end.. If string theory is correct.. we could well imagine that the strings function much the same way as DNA does.. instructing energy what form to take.. Energy itself seems to posses some kind of intelligence.. but intelligence.. like everything else.. manifests in many diverse forms.. the laws of physics for example..

"I am the wind which breathes upon the sea

I am a beam of the sun

I am a world of knowledge

I am the God who created the fire in the head"

Early Celtic poem

FrumiousBandersnatch · Dec 11, 2016

DennisTate said:
Actually, I am hoping that this general idea might remind you of the tradition of Lucifer leading a third of the angels of God into rebellion that destroyed the part of the universe that was fixed up in Genesis chapter 1.

So...... here we are facing a situation where within years or decades we may create intelligent and influential beings capable of destroying humanity....... post #26 here has an interesting quotation that might remind you of this ancient tradition.

All of which has nothing to do with the post you're responding to... Are you unable to answer simple questions about your posts, or just reluctant to?

TagliatelliMonster · Dec 12, 2016

DennisTate said:
Thank you for this interesting reply!

I will attempt in the future to do a better job of taking the source into
consideration but.........
you may find this related discussion rather intriguing.

Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman does a powerful job of explaining how Wave Theory
implies activity that would tend to produce Life and yes.... intelligence ....
or even Intelligence!

Would fundamental energy exist BEFORE the latest major Big Bang event of 13.72
or so billion years ago?

You don't even know if the word "before" makes any sense in that context...

What does "before time" mean?
Sounds very much like "north of the north pole".

AV1611VET · Dec 12, 2016

TagliatelliMonster said:
What does "before time" mean?

Before speed and distance.

Since time is a quotient of distance divided by velocity, there was no time before your Big Bang expansion.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Sounds very much like "north of the north pole".

There was no directional orientation back then either.

TagliatelliMonster · Dec 12, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Before speed and distance.

Time isn't necessarily related to moving objects.
In a vacuum, time ticks away as well.

Since time is a quotient of distance divided by velocity, there was no time before your Big Bang expansion.There was no directional orientation back then either.

If there is not "time" at point X, then using any word that points to "time passing" (like the word "before") is meaningless.

AV1611VET · Dec 12, 2016

TagliatelliMonster said:
If there is not "time" at point X, then using any word that points to "time passing" (like the word "before") is meaningless.

Can you think of a better term?

Instead of playing Mr. Scientist and holding a clipboard over us little guys?

I mean, I know you guys lived n years without a proper definition of "planet" or "child in the womb" or "miracle," so I'm sure you think tankists can give us a break, eh?

TagliatelliMonster · Dec 12, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Can you think of a better term?

To think of a term, I would first have to know what state / context the term is supposed to be describing. Which is knowledge that is not at my disposal at this time.

DennisTate · Dec 12, 2016

TagliatelliMonster said:
You don't even know if the word "before" makes any sense in that context...

What does "before time" mean?
Sounds very much like "north of the north pole".

True... time would not exist until the existence of.... .or perhaps the
invention of "space."

I've been wondering if "time" is something like a vehicle designed to
transport "others" from point A to point B and on and on and on......
after "others" were also invented?!?!

AV1611VET · Dec 12, 2016

TagliatelliMonster said:
To think of a term, I would first have to know what state / context the term is supposed to be describing. Which is knowledge that is not at my disposal at this time.

I'll take that as a NO then.

TagliatelliMonster · Dec 12, 2016

DennisTate said:
True... time would not exist until the existence of.... .or perhaps the
invention of "space."

I've been wondering if "time" is something like a vehicle designed to
transport "others" from point A to point B and on and on and on......
after "others" were also invented?!?!

There you go again, using words like "designed to" and "invented".
There are not justified assumptions.

Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

The first Intelligence began in.....

Carbon based life less than 5 billion years ago, on earth.

Carbon based life in outer space.

Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

This is a new question that I am only now facing.

This question is flawed.... God had no beginning.

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