Where Did Humans Come From?

[The Barbarian]

God did not make a wind-up toy called evolution, set it on the ground and let it do whatever it wanted.

That's what some IDers think. But evolution is just another process God created for His purposes. And God remains completely engaged with all things in this world, evolution included.

He sustains His Creation continually.

Yep.

 

[returnn23]

No, that's not accurate. Too many people believe "evolution" occurred, and with zero input from God. Zero. It's a self-starting, self-sustaining engine. Not true.

 

[The Barbarian]

He sustains His Creation continually.

Yep.

No, that's not accurate. Too many people believe "evolution" occurred,

Biological evolution is consistent with God sustaining his creation continually. Since evolution is directly observed, there's no point in denying the fact. Have you confused evolution with common descent again? Evolution is the observed phenomenon; common descent is a consequence of evolution.

and with zero input from God. Zero.

That's their assumption. Science does not support that assumption. Can't, as you just learned.

It's a self-starting, self-sustaining engine. Not true.

Absolutely. Evolution only works on existing living things. Without some other process to begin life, there would be no evolution. Fortunately, the evidence and God's word tells us that abiogenesis is a fact.

For both scientific and theological reasons, we know that it did happen.

 

[returnn23]

You divert and can continue to divert. What you appear to be unable to admit is that the Biology textbook is all a lot of people get. And God is not needed. At all. So you can repeat your previous lines but as presented in the Biology textbook, evolution is a purely non-God concept.

No scientist can create life in the lab. Abiogenesis is not a fact.

 

[The Barbarian]

You divert and can continue to divert. What you appear to be unable to admit is that the Biology textbook is all a lot of people get.

You seem disappointed that biology textbooks don't make any religious claims. As you learned, they can't.

Textbooks only discuss things that science can determine. If one's faith is not enough, science can't help.

And God is not needed.

He isn't needed for plumbing manuals, either. For the same reason.

evolution is a purely non-God concept.

So is plumbing. That's not what it's for. Plumbers and scientists can be theists, of course. They just don't use science or plumbing to know God.

 

[returnn23]

You keep saying wrong things and ignoring the obvious. The Biology textbook tells students about evolution - as an ATHEIST concept. People should realize that.

 

[The Barbarian]

You keep saying wrong things and ignoring the obvious.

I keep pointing out the obvious to you. Biology textbooks and plumbing manuals are about biology and plumbing. They aren't about the supernatural. They can't do that for you. They are methods that can only involve nature.

The Biology textbook tells students about evolution - as an ATHEIST concept.

Nope. No biology textbook says that there is no God. You have that completely wrong. You might as well claim that plumbing is an atheist concept, because plumbing manuals don't mention God.

Science is unable to confirm or deny God. People should realize that.

 

[The Barbarian]

Abiogenesis is not a fact.

God says it is. The evidence from science says it is. Your opinion notwithstanding.

No scientist can create life in the lab.

One theologian said that not even God could make a triangle with interior angles summing to any other value than 180 degrees. Sometime later, mathematicians did just that. What if scientists someday can build a living thing from scratch?

Supporting God on what man cannot yet do, is a very unwise strategy.

 

[eleos1954]

I was curious as to how divided posters are on this topic. As a former Catholic, now Lutheran, (who is still unsure if I’m in the right church) I learned from the writings and some communication via email with Edward Feser, that humans may have started as part of a population of hominids but that God gave Adam and Eve souls, making them human. Then their offspring interbred with these other hominids and so on. I’m probably oversimplifying Feser’s theory and it’s been a long time since I’d read it, but what are your thoughts on this idea?
Or do you believe we came from Adam and Eve, whose children interbred with one another and so on?
Other theories?

Adam & Eve ... one either believes the creation account as written or not ...

I think people question it drawn astray by evolution theory.

You can trust His Word ... all of it ;o)

 

[The Barbarian]

Adam & Eve ... one either believes the creation account as written or not ...

There's a lot of disagreements among Christians as to how it was written. If it was clearly one thing or the other, there wouldn't be disagreements.

I think people question it drawn astray by evolution theory.

Given that St. Augustine remarked that it couldn't be a literal history, and some of his contemporaries said that it is a literal history, I'd say you were wrong.

 

[eleos1954]

There's a lot of disagreements among Christians as to how it was written. If it was clearly one thing or the other, there wouldn't be disagreements.

Given that St. Augustine remarked that it couldn't be a literal history, and some of his contemporaries said that it is a literal history, I'd say you were wrong.

Sure ... understand .... this is the Catholic point of view.

 

[The Barbarian]

Sure ... understand .... this is the Catholic point of view.

Christian. There were no Protestants or Catholics back then. They were all Christians.

 

[eleos1954]

Christian. There were no Protestants or Catholics back then. They were all Christians.

Did St. Augustine retract his beliefs in the Catholic faith at the end of his life?

 

[FaithT]

God says it is. The evidence from science says it is. Your opinion notwithstanding.



One theologian said that not even God could make a triangle with interior angles summing to any other value than 180 degrees. Sometime later, mathematicians did just that. What if scientists someday can build a living thing from scratch?

Supporting God on what man cannot yet do, is a very unwise strategy.

I agree. All discoveries and inventions were seen as impossible at one time or another.

 

[The Barbarian]

Did St. Augustine retract his beliefs in the Catholic faith at the end of his life?

He remained faithful to the Church. There were no Protestants then.

 

[returnn23]

St. Augustine again? No, people are led astray from Christianity by the Biology textbook. It clearly tells readers that the process occurred by itself. People need to realize that. Intelligent Design is the correct explanation. And God is the designer. Here is the truth:

Romans 1:20

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."

 

[eleos1954]

He remained faithful to the Church. There were no Protestants then.

Yeah .. well ...

The Protestant Reformation happened because it was needed and God set it in motion.

Matthew 6:9

9“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.

10‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.

11‘Give us this day our daily bread.

12‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’

And He will accomplish His purposes. His will ... WILL be done, I have no doubt.

Until then ..... Sola Scriptura

 

[The Barbarian]

The Protestant Reformation happened because it was needed and God set it in motion.

Martin Luther wasn't God.

Until then ..... Sola Scriptura

The Bible itself rejects Sola Scriptura:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God Himself says that the Bible is not the only source of authority about Him.

 

[eleos1954]

Martin Luther wasn't God.

The Bible itself rejects Sola Scriptura:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God Himself says that the Bible is not the only source of authority about Him.

I didn't say Martin Luther was God ... there were many involved in the reformation. I said God set the reformation in motion. So please refrain from twisting my words and adding your own.

Romans 1:20 refers to the world’s creation and its created works. Paul’s argument is that God can be known through creation.

Isaiah 40:8

The grass withers, the flower fades,
But the word of our God stands forever.

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Colossians

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

 

[The Barbarian]

I said God set the reformation in motion.

Martin Luther set the reformation in motion. Luther merely blamed God later.

The Bible itself rejects Sola Scriptura:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1:20 refers to the world’s creation and its created works. Paul’s argument is that God can be known through creation.

Which is contrary to the new doctrine of Sola Scriptura:

Sola scriptura, meaning by scripture alone, is a Christian theological doctrine held by most Protestant Christian denominations, in particular the Lutheran and Reformed traditions of Protestantism,[1] that posits the Bible as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice.
Sola scriptura - Wikipedia

Romans 1:20 plainly asserts that creation itself is authoritative and sufficient to show God and His power. And that is contrary to Sola Scriptura.

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition,

Sola Scriptura is a human tradition.