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I've extensively studied this.If you Google “Jesus under Herod and Quirinius” you can find various solutions to this problem.
Adam and Eve were the first humans. Hominoids are a myth.I was curious as to how divided posters are on this topic. As a former Catholic, now Lutheran, (who is still unsure if I’m in the right church) I learned from the writings and some communication via email with Edward Feser, that humans may have started as part of a population of hominids but that God gave Adam and Eve souls, making them human. Then their offspring interbred with these other hominids and so on. I’m probably oversimplifying Feser’s theory and it’s been a long time since I’d read it, but what are your thoughts on this idea?
Or do you believe we came from Adam and Eve, whose children interbred with one another and so on?
Other theories?
Where is the scientific support for this? There should be something.Adam and Eve were the first humans. Hominoids are a myth.
It would just fit better in the Historical Jesus sub forum. I, for one, would like to discuss it, too, but it doesn’t fit in this forum.I'll just stop.
My apologies, my ego got the best of me and wanted to discuss it. You are absolutely right.It would just fit better in the Historical Jesus sub forum. I, for one, would like to discuss it, too, but it doesn’t fit in this forum.
That's a reasonable theory that fits the wordings in both chapter 1 and chapter 2. It does fit both chapters, and not every theory does so well. Perhaps the most important part is that Adam and Eve were the 'first' in the key, essential way: with the first God-breathed spirit, which gave them then the first souls accountable to God, and they were 'first' and our parents in that way.I was curious as to how divided posters are on this topic. As a former Catholic, now Lutheran, (who is still unsure if I’m in the right church) I learned from the writings and some communication via email with Edward Feser, that humans may have started as part of a population of hominids but that God gave Adam and Eve souls, making them human. Then their offspring interbred with these other hominids and so on. I’m probably oversimplifying Feser’s theory and it’s been a long time since I’d read it, but what are your thoughts on this idea?
Or do you believe we came from Adam and Eve, whose children interbred with one another and so on?
Other theories?
No, there's nothing in Scripture establishing creation ex nihilo. The words for create, in Hebrew an Greek, are also used for form and shape.The initial creation was ex nihilo. But life was created using nature and existing creation, according to God's word.
How do you interpret the evidence? Science is very clear in its belief that there was never a human bottle neck of two people. I think the fewest number of people in the world was something like 10,000 or maybe I’m mistaken on the number but it was far greater than two.Depends how you interpret the evidence.
In the OP you already cited Edward Feser providing a solution here, right?How do you interpret the evidence? Science is very clear in its belief that there was never a human bottle neck of two people. I think the fewest number of people in the world was something like 10,000 or maybe I’m mistaken on the number but it was far greater than two.
Like most people, you've chosen to bury your head in the sand.
Well, my problem is that my beliefs on this topic clash with the beliefs of the LCMS. I’m formerly Catholic who tried several churches when I left and settled on Lutheran LCMS. The Catholic church is a conservative bunch regarding some things but not when it comes to subjects such as this. I still wonder whether I’m in the right place.That's a reasonable theory that fits the wordings in both chapter 1 and chapter 2. It does fit both chapters, and not every theory does so well. Perhaps the most important part is that Adam and Eve were the 'first' in the key, essential way: with the first God-breathed spirit, which gave them then the first souls accountable to God, and they were 'first' and our parents in that way.
While some think of the story of Adam and Eve as a parable and archetypal story to tell us about all of us -- and yes, it's true that we indeed all are born with a connection with God and tend to all fall from that at some moment, and need redemption, so that the Garden story is indeed a story about each one of us individually, so that this view has key truth in it -- it's not really important finally when precisely Adam and Eve were in the Garden, or exactly what humans were already in the land of Nod, and so on, finally. These are merely ideas/ways to answer curiosity with theories that better fit the text....
It's more important in the end simply that that we read the story of the Garden of Eden with listening so that we hear the several profound messages it tells us about ourselves and our relationship with God.
As you have no coherent concept of God, you'll understand why I will never accept your views on Genesis creation.Perhaps one of us has. As I said, it's your prerogative.
The much bigger mainstream Lutheran church grouping is the ELCA (I'm in one actually), which is typically very mainstream I think. Our congregation I think is very typical, and is full of conservative people right along with centrists and liberal members too -- an entire spectrum of attitudes, just like people in general -- all together in the same congregation (!)Well, my problem is that my beliefs on this topic clash with the beliefs of the LCMS. I’m formerly Catholic who tried several churches when I left and settled on Lutheran LCMS. The Catholic church is a conservative bunch regarding some things but not when it comes to subjects such as this. I still wonder whether I’m in the right place.
As you have no coherent concept of God
you'll understand why I will never accept your views on Genesis creation.
Without a literal Adam, it's pretty difficult to make sense of Romans 5 - and the whole problem of Original Sin in general. Assuming you're willing to be forthcoming about the seriousness of the problem. From what I've seen on this thread, some people prefer to use trite responses to gloss over problems rather than take them seriously.How do you interpret the evidence? Science is very clear in its belief that there was never a human bottle neck of two people. I think the fewest number of people in the world was something like 10,000 or maybe I’m mistaken on the number but it was far greater than two.
Tell it to the experts I cited.I think you're relying way too much on your own reasoning for something you don't seem to know very much about.
Yeah, I have a friend in the ELCA who’s asked me to visit her church but it’s farther than I want to drive and her church is really dwindling. I suspect they’ll probably be closing in a few short years.The much bigger mainstream Lutheran church grouping is the ELCA (I'm in one actually), which is typically very mainstream I think. Our congregation I think is very typical, and is full of conservative people right along with centrists and liberal members too -- an entire spectrum of attitudes, just like people in general -- all together in the same congregation (!)We all get along beautifully. That the congregation is quite a bit more conservative overall than some members isn't really a problem. We are Christians. But you'd also find you would not be judged for thinking the Earth is old for instance.
From what I’ve seen on this thread, you’d rather use ad hominem attacks rather than discuss and, hopefully, learn something,Without a literal Adam, it's pretty difficult to make sense of Romans 5 - and the whole problem of Original Sin in general. Assuming you're willing to be forthcoming about the seriousness of the problem. From what I've seen on this thread, some people prefer to use trite responses to gloss over problems rather than take them seriously.
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