Where Arminianism Fails.

[Shrewd Manager]

all flesh is another way of saying all the faithful

Scriptures?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Scriptures?

Ephesians 1:13-14

"Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory."

Only after belief in Christ does someone recieve the Spirit - not before, so the pouring out on "all flesh" means an end to the previous limitation, kings and prophets etc.

The Holy Spirit is an anointing of the faithful (whether they be jew, gentile, rich, poor, old, young, sons or daughters) - not the sinner outside of belief so it must be looked at in the context of the faithful.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Ephesians 1:13-14

"Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory."

Only after belief in Christ does someone recieve the Spirit - not before, so the pouring out on "all flesh" means an end to the previous limitation, kings and prophets etc.

The Holy Spirit is an anointing of the faithful (whether they be jew, gentile, rich, poor, old, young, sons or daughters) - not the sinner outside of belief so it must be looked at in the context of the faithful.

Disagree.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. (Jn 6:44)

You did not choose Me but I chose you, (Jn 15:16a)

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.[...] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3,5)

Baptism of fire and the spirit is how it happens.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Disagree.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. (Jn 6:44)

You did not choose Me but I chose you, (Jn 15:16a)

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.[...] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3,5)

Baptism of fire and the spirit is how it happens.

being drawn isn't the same as being anointed by the Spirit in the verse you posted.

Your arguing, I assume, that every man woman and child alive is filled with the Holy Spirit, and that's false.

I've experienced both, the drawing and the Spirit, and there was no outpouring Spirit until after I was saved.

The outpouring Spirit is for the faithful, and must be read in that context.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

being drawn isn't the same as being anointed by the Spirit in the verse you posted.

So you can be anointed and not drawn? Obviously standard procedure is drawn then anointed, no?

Your arguing, I assume, that every man woman and child alive is filled with the Holy Spirit, and that's false.

I'm not, God has reconciled everyone to Him, but has not completed drawing all. Ultimately they will all come to knowledge and be filled.

I've experienced both, the drawing and the Spirit, and there was no outpouring Spirit until after I was saved.

Not sure of the difference there. The original baptism of fire and the Spirit is what cleanses the heart, renews the mind and opens the eyes. After that we try to draw nearer to God and to walk worthy, often in vain.

 

[Hazelelponi]

So you can be anointed and not drawn? Obviously standard procedure is drawn then anointed, no?



I'm not, God has reconciled everyone to Him, but has not completed drawing all. Ultimately they will all come to knowledge and be filled.



Not sure of the difference there. The original baptism of fire and the Spirit is what cleanses the heart, renews the mind and opens the eyes. After that we try to draw nearer to God and to walk worthy, often in vain.

I take it your one of those Universalists?

I'd say take that to a different thread..

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I take it your one of those Universalists?

I'd say take that to a different thread..

I'm an inclusivist hereabouts.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm an inclusivist hereabouts.

Doesn't belong in this thread.. brings this thread way too far off topic..

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Doesn't belong in this thread.. brings this thread way too far off topic..

Not at all. It says Arminianism is correct about the love of God for all, and Calvinism is correct about God's sovereignty. That's inclusivism and directly related to the op.

Log a complaint.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Not at all. It says Arminianism is correct about the love of God for all, and Calvinism is correct about God's sovereignty. That's inclusivism and directly related to the op.

Log a complaint.

So your saying the heresy of Universalism (condemned in the 5th Ecumenical Council) is directly attributable to Arminianism?

Good to know...

Good day.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

So your saying the heresy of Universalism (condemned in the 5th Ecumenical Council) is directly attributable to Arminianism?

Good to know...

Good day.

You are laboring under a misapprehension as to the 5th Ecumenical Council. UR was not condemned there. Anyway this is a discussion for another thread.

 

[-57]

But unfortunately if most of the world goes to hell because God chose to pass over them, it looks like Satan won - even if he goes to the Lake of Fire, he achieved his objective.

Interesting point. But only if Satan is responsible for Adams fall.

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has had a clean. Keep posts civil and do not make it personal.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is now permanently closed for flaming.

MOD HAT OFF​