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Regarding the widow's persistence with the unjust judge.Can't find it?
Got a verse?
M-Bob
With monergistic salvation, God does the saving once for all. He cannot lose those whom He saves. He allows none to snatch them from the Shepherd's hand. He completes the work which He begins.So you get saved twice?
Calvinism is wacky.
Yes, you have to be convicted by the spirit... but you can reject or follow that conviction.
Is that the defense of Arminianism?Have you ever met a Calvinist who was a warm and loving guy?
Hey, Dave. Thanks for the thread. I would have heartily said I agree, except I'm wondering just what you mean by your last sentence. It almost sound tongue-in-cheek. If you are saying that the choosing to believe (which follows regeneration) is a step toward repentance, I agree. Wholeheartedly.The basic claim Arminians make is "You must choose to believe in order to be saved". But you must already believe [have the Holy Spirit] or you would not choose to believe. And Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So choosing to believe is a quasi repentance that leads to true repentance.
I want to add to what you say here, and I think you will agree, that not all those who "trust" synergism to do that job, actually have put their trust in self. Intellectually, they may, but in fact, many of them are truly born again, and simply don't know that their faith and repentance is God-made. Their trust is in God, even if they don't know it.First, there is no decision that leads to salvation. Jesus says whoever believes has (already has) eternal life. Any decision follows (believing) in the form of repentance.
Others hear the same gospel as law. And think they must choose Christ as a legal act which God must honor with salvation. That is, unless they don't keep their end of the deal. These cannot discern the true Christ not being born again and choose an idol in his name.
Man is lost; he cannot possibly find God even if he wanted to. So while the Holy Spirit finds us and enables us to believe, He still nonetheless never forces us to believe. We can, IOW, still say "no" at any point along the way even if we cannot say "yes" to begin with without Him. Faith is both a gift-and a choice-the choice to accept that gift.The basic claim Arminians make is "You must choose to believe in order to be saved". But you must already believe [have the Holy Spirit] or you would not choose to believe. And Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So choosing to believe is a quasi repentance that leads to true repentance.
So the HS chooses those for eternal life which implicitly means he also chooses those for the antithesis of eternal life. The gospel then seems rather arbitrary and it turns from the good news to the lucky news as salvation is no more than a lottery (at least from our perspective)The basic claim Arminians make is "You must choose to believe in order to be saved". But you must already believe [have the Holy Spirit] or you would not choose to believe. And Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So choosing to believe is a quasi repentance that leads to true repentance.
This is a lot of speculation that looks very much like a strawman arguement. Jesus tells us: "7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye. shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh. findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." (Matthew 7:7,8) This is more along the line of what I actually experienced. I had problems and I needed solutions. I had questions and I needed answers. Science does not have all the answers and all the solutions. A friend told me to "try God'. I actually had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I had looked everywhere I knew to look and I had tried everything I had known to try. So I tried the Bible only the Bible did not make any sense and reading the Bible seems to make things worse. Then they told me to pray and ask for God to give me the Holy Spirit of God. That is what I did and the Bible began to make sense. We are told that the Holy Spirit is our teacher and our guide to lead us into all truth. We do not need man to teach us we have our Bible and the Holy Spirit.The basic claim Arminians make is "You must choose to believe in order to be saved". But you must already believe [have the Holy Spirit] or you would not choose to believe. And Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So choosing to believe is a quasi repentance that leads to true repentance.
The flesh cannot hear the gospel in a saving way. It hears a law and tries to earn salvation by obeying it. When Paul speaks of hearing the word and receiving the Spirit thereby, the word is Spirit that opens the hearts of the elect building faith in them.So the HS chooses those for eternal life which implicitly means he also chooses those for the antithesis of eternal life. The gospel then seems rather arbitrary and it turns from the good news to the lucky news as salvation is no more than a lottery (at least from our perspective)
Paul tells us in Galations we receive the HS by hearing with faith. So this informs us prior to the receiving the HS there is a response that is pre-HS.
Where you are missing it is in the new birth we experience Christ in our hearts and believe because of that. Force implies we only gamble that Christ might be real and we take a stab at believing.Man is lost; he cannot possibly find God even if he wanted to. So while the Holy Spirit finds us and enables us to believe, He still nonetheless never forces us to believe. We can, IOW, still say "no" at any point along the way even if we cannot say "yes" to begin with without Him. Faith is both a gift-and a choice-the choice to accept that gift.
No, it's about believers being confused. God must save a person before they can believe at a saved level. But Arminianism teaches we must save ourselves through obedience. So in essence, many believe (are saved by God) but think they must choose to believe (redundant) and this is a type of repentance that leads to true repentance.So you get saved twice?
Calvinism is wacky.
Yes, you have to be convicted by the spirit... but you can reject or follow that conviction.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” John 6:47 (KJV 1900)You using Jesus words is a false premise, at least in how you use them. Jesus wasn't saying someone believes because they have eternal life. That's like someone saying, Someone who eats is full. Being full doesn't cause a person to eat.
Jesus was saying if a person chooses to believe, they have at the moment of belief, salvation. And as long as they continue to believe, they will continue to have salvation.
Well...no, force implies the opposite-that we have no choice but to believe because we're caused to do so.Where you are missing it is in the new birth we experience Christ in our hearts and believe because of that. Force implies we only gamble that Christ might be real and we take a stab at believing.
Do you choose to believe you are sitting when you are sitting? It's the same with believing in Christ. Because you experience him in your heart and believing is inevitable.Well...no, force implies the opposite-that we have no choice but to believe because we're caused to do so.
But faith has always been an option. Adam's sin was a sin of disbelief; by denying God's authority he denied His godhood, His right to be obeyed. And this in spite of Adam's closer relationship to God. Faith is offered as a free gift of grace, and the new birth is the consequence, as we accept.
Yes, you have to be convicted by the spirit... but you can reject or follow that conviction.
The problem with your view is that the happenstance life impacts your outcome. What you went through, experience, learned or didn't learn etc. is part of the acceptance or rejection formula.I am sure belief relies upon us. I don't care about total depravity or about God picking out who gets saved.
The world is a hard place to live in. Life is a hard experience all around. Trouble and pain and heartache and suffering is everywhere. In Calvinism I can see no meaning or purpose to any of this. Nothing matters because nothing impact the outcomes. It's all a pointless stage play in which the players move through their roles and nothing more. It is far more evil than it would be if it meant anything.
Well...no, force implies the opposite-that we have no choice but to believe because we're caused to do so.
But faith has always been an option. Adam's sin was a sin of disbelief; by denying God's authority he denied His godhood, His right to be obeyed. And this in spite of Adam's closer relationship to God. Faith is offered as a free gift of grace, and the new birth is the consequence, as we accept.
Paul speaks of "hearing with faith" (ESV), other translations say "believing what you heard" (NIV). Although a message is implicit Paul does not speak of this "word" and his focus is on the hearer and then believer. Your version removes the focus from "hearer" and places it on the parts unwritten and not focused on calling it the Spirit. What gives you such liberties to pry open scripture and say "what he really meant was..."The flesh cannot hear the gospel in a saving way. It hears a law and tries to earn salvation by obeying it. When Paul speaks of hearing the word and receiving the Spirit thereby, the word is Spirit that opens the hearts of the elect building faith in them.
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