When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

[precepts]

The 7 heads in Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17:3 aren't the same as the 7 heads in Daniel 7. For the 4 beasts in Daniel 7:3-7 represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), Greece (leopard), and Rome (4th beast). The 4 heads of the Greek Empire (Daniel 7:6) would represent the 4 Diadochian Greek "kingdoms" which the Greek Empire broke up into after the death of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:22).

Then that would make more than 4 beasts. The 4 Greeks are one, the 3rd beast in Dan 7.

But the 7 heads of the beast in Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17:3 represent the empires of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam.

No they don't. You're making it up contrary to scripture stating that they are the 7 hills Rome's built on!

So the 4 beasts in Daniel 7 represent the same thing as 4 of the 7 heads in Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17:3, but the heads in Daniel 7 aren't entirely the same as the heads in Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17:3. If they were entirely the same, then it would have been said, at the time of John the apostle and the Roman Empire in the first century AD, that "six are fallen" instead of "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10). For in Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts before the Roman Empire had a total of 6 heads, not 5.

That would be 14 heads, not six, Babylon (one), Persia/Media (two), Greece (four), Rome (seven). That's 14 heads! Dan 7 wouldn't of name 4 beasts but 14 beast/kingdoms since, according to you, each head represents a kingdom.

Daniel 7:11b could refer to the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, being cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20). In Daniel 7, the Antichrist is considered to be part of the 4th beast (Daniel 7:23-25).

The antichrist is not cast into the lake of fire alone. You full well know that. The antichrist is cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet, Rev 19:20.

There's no way the 11th horn can be the antichrist because the false prophet comes after him in Rev 13. If the 11th horn was the antichrist, the false prophet would have to a horn after the 11th, and there's only 11 horns. So, the 11th horn has to be the false prophet, making the 8th horn in Rev 17:10 and in Dan 7's 4th beast with ten horns the antichrist/the Beast.

The ten horns/kings in Rev 17:12 also has to be the remaining horns in Dan 7 because they can't recieve kingdoms after the 11th and 8th horns are cast into the lake of fire. The horns all represent the 4th and 5th beast kingdoms' kings of Rome.

Checkmate!

Daniel 7:23 shows that the 4 "kings" in Daniel 7:17 are 4 "kingdoms"/empires, which is similar to Revelation 17:10, where the 7 "kings" are 7 empires, represented by the 7 heads of the beast in Revelation 17:3.

You're blaspheming the scriptures. Dan 7:17 says they are kings! Name the four kings.

It's the 10 horns of this beast which represent 10 individual human kings, who "have received no kingdom as yet" (Revelation 17:12), and who will receive power as kings only when the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, does (Revelation 17:12b).

Dan 7:17 says the four beast are four kings. Name the four kings.

Note that they can be two separate sets of 10 horns because Revelation 17:12 shows that its ten horns will receive power as kings only when the Antichrist does. On the other hand, in Daniel 7:24, its 10 kings arise before the Antichrist does, and so they can be 10 major nations which currently exist, just as in Daniel 7:17, the 4 kings are 4 empires (cf. Daniel 7:23) which existed in the past.

(1) Dan 7's 4th beast with the ten horns is the 1st beast in Rev 13 with ten horns, right or wrong?

(2) They both represent Rome, right or wrong?

(3) The 11th horn that comes up after the ten horns in Dan 7 is the 2nd beast in Rev 13, the false prophet, right or wrong?

(4) Dan 7:11 is Rev 19:20, the Beast/antichrist and the false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire, right or wrong?

(5) The Beast/antichrist has to be the 8th horn among Dan 7's ten horn beast since the false prophet is the 11th horn, the 2nd beast in Rev 13, right or wrong?

(6) The ten kings in Rev 17:12 has to be the ten horns in Dan 7's 4th ten horned beast because the beast/antichrist and the false prophet are the 8th and 11th horns, and there's no life after the 11th horn and the 8th horn are cast into the lake of fire in Dan 7:11, right or wrong?

(7a) The ten horns of Dan 7's 4th ten horned beast has to be the the 1st beast in Rev 13's 7 headed 10 horned beast, right or wrong?

(7b) The ten horns are the same ten horns on each beast because they represent Rome and her first ten kings, right or wrong?

(8) The fourth beast in Dan 7's king is the first king of Rome, Augustus Caesar, right or wrong?



The reason why you can't name the four kings representing the four beasts kingdoms in Dan 7, and continue to ignore the fact of Dan 7:17, just shows your contempt for the truth.

 

[Bible2]

precepts said in post 621:

You're making it up contrary to scripture stating that they are the 7 hills Rome's built on!

In Revelation 17:9, the 7 mountains (or hills) which support Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" can indeed be the 7 hills of Rome. For at the time of John the apostle in the first century AD, the Roman Empire was the chief support for what Revelation's "Babylon" represents: all of mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). At the same time, in Revelation 17:9, the 7 mountains can also represent 7 empires (Revelation 17:10). For an empire can be referred to symbolically as a mountain (Jeremiah 51:24-25, Daniel 2:35,44), and what Revelation's "Babylon" represents has been supported by 7 empires: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam.

The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires that had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10,11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

precepts said in post 621:

The antichrist is cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet, Rev 19:20.

That's right.

The beast which comes up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-16) represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a (secretly apostate) pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What's more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus. (But he won't say that he's Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

If a (secretly apostate) pope does become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand that he be removed for heresy and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops, and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him and eventually even elect their own, new pope, who they could declare to be the "True pope". But this new, "True pope" could then be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the Third Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops, and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they're adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

It's only when the Antichrist has completely broken all the physical power of the true church (which consists of all true believers, whether they're adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b) and Jesus' 2nd coming will immediately occur, at which time he will resurrect and rapture (gather together) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). At his 2nd coming, Jesus will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so he/God will get all the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43), for he/God won't share this glory with the church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

precepts said in post 621:

The horns all represent the 4th and 5th beast kingdoms' kings of Rome.

Note that the 10 kings in Revelation 17:12 can't be the first 10 Roman emperors, because all 10 "have received no kingdom as yet" (Revelation 17:12), and all 10 will "receive power as kings one hour with the beast" (Revelation 17:12). That is, all 10 will receive power at the same time, and only when the (never fulfilled) Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will receive power for a literal 42 months (Revelation 13:4-18).

 

[precepts]

precepts said in post 621:

The antichrist is cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet, Rev 19:20.

That's right.

So who is the 11th horn in Dan 7:11?

The beast which comes up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-16) represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13).

The 11th horn in Dan 7:11?





The facts you continue to ignore:
(1) Dan 7's 4th beast with the ten horns is the 1st beast in Rev 13 with ten horns.

(2) They both represent Rome.

(3) The 11th horn that comes up after the ten horns in Dan 7 is the 2nd beast in Rev 13, the false prophet.

(4) Dan 7:11 is Rev 19:20, the Beast/the antichrist and the false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire.

(5) The Beast/antichrist has to be the 8th horn among Dan 7's ten horn beast because the false prophet is the 11th horn, the 2nd beast in Rev 13.

(6) The ten kings in Rev 17:12 has to be the ten horns in Dan 7's 4th ten horned beast because the beast/antichrist and the false prophet are the 8th and 11th horns, and there's no life after the 11th horn and the 8th horn are cast into the lake of fire in Dan 7:11.

(7a) The ten horns of Dan 7's 4th ten horned beast has to be the the 1st beast in Rev 13's 7 headed 10 horned beast.

(7b) The ten horns are the same ten horns on each beast because they represent Rome and her first ten kings.

(8) The fourth beast in Dan 7's king is the first king of Rome, Augustus Caesar




- And my unanswered request, name the four kings representing the four beasts kingdoms in Dan 7:17, please.!



Checkmate!

 

[Interplanner]

...and read the material in the historical sense first, ie, the woman on the beast is Jerusalem of the 1st century. The term for that woman, harlot, is that of a Levitical priest's wife who has strayed.

 

[precepts]

...and read the material in the historical sense first, ie, the woman on the beast is Jerusalem of the 1st century. The term for that woman, harlot, is that of a Levitical priest's wife who has strayed.

You people have your agendas.

Shalem isn't one of the four beast kingdoms mentioned in Dan 7. Rome is. The 4th and last beast kingdom built on 7 of the 10 Roman hills, but you already know that don't you?

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 624:

...and read the material in the historical sense first, ie, the woman on the beast is Jerusalem of the 1st century.

Note that while the corrupt aspects of first century AD Jerusalem (and of other cities) are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents, it represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of first century Jerusalem. For first century Jerusalem just by itself didn't reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor was first century Jerusalem the only place where people bought merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor had first century Jerusalem just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor had first century Jerusalem been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). Instead, Revelation's symbolic"Babylon" represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3), and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

In Revelation 11:8, the great city is Jerusalem, where Jesus was crucified. But in Revelation 21:10, the great city is New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven. And in Revelation 14:8, Revelation 17:18, and Revelation 18:10-21, the great city is the symbolic harlot/city of Babylon. When it's destroyed, it will be found no more at all (Revelation 18:21), forever (Revelation 19:3), unlike Jerusalem, which was found again after its only-temporary destruction in 70 AD.

The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number six in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break all our chains of attachment to this vile physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat the world's armies, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the 1,000 years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new first heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem, to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

 

[Messy]

Me, you, and Bible are in practice right now, and I see us like a team.


Of course the name is,'' Team Hannibal.''

Oh, you mean the A-team with Hannibal? Can I have a signature?
Google Afbeeldingen resultaat voor http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/what-why-who-when-where/a-team/a-team.jpg

I was looking for another post about Christmas, but I couldn't find it. I found this:
Birth of Yeshua (Jesus) during Succoth

 

[Interplanner]

B2, you are very exasperating. Just read passages in their own terms, not like a person who has been taking memory supplements about every other possible reference there could be. Do you honestly think the subjection of Jerusalem was short lived? You're the first. If it was, what on earth is the excitement about 1948 for--not that I have it. do you really think it's freedom is meaningful later in the 7th century when it is part of a caliphate anyway?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

..

I have deleted many things from this thread because I did not have the right to speak here.

If I have offended anyone in the past with past posts, please forgive me.

 

[swainkas]

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the
great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart
of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their
fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Malachi 4:5-6​

​

​

These are the very last words written in the Old Testament. So
the situation would be that if John was Elijah, then we can conclude
that the great and terrible day of the LORD has indeed already come
(from the Jewish perspective – meaning that the End Times are here).
John’s answer to the question was that he was not Elijah (John
1:21). By following the logic, we can conclude that he in essence is
saying that, as far as he knew, he was not associated with the great
and terrible day of the LORD. But if that is the case, what did John
think of Jesus and his own comments about Jesus taking away the
sins of the world (John 1:29)? We will never know. But we can know
what Jesus thought of John. Jesus not only says that John is the greatest
of all men born, but that he was more than a prophet (Matthew
11:11). He says that if you can believe it, John is in fact Elijah who is
to come (Matthew 11:14; Matthew 17:11-13). By saying this about
John, Jesus is claiming that His own coming is the great and terrible
day of the LORD. We must know that in Jewish terms, this is the
final event in history. Christians tend to think of Christ as having
come once and that He will come again; but for Jews, their Messiah​

was to come once and rule and reign in a Davidic kingdom (Ezekiel

34:23-24). Jesus, in claiming that John was Elijah, is staking His
claim that He is with the Jews, that the coming Messiah did in fact
come (Jesus, Himself), and so did the great and terrible day of the​

LORD.

taken from Heresy, by Keith Swainson

 

[SG9]

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the
great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart
of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their
fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Malachi 4:5-6​

​

​

These are the very last words written in the Old Testament. So
the situation would be that if John was Elijah, then we can conclude
that the great and terrible day of the LORD has indeed already come
(from the Jewish perspective – meaning that the End Times are here).
John’s answer to the question was that he was not Elijah (John
1:21). By following the logic, we can conclude that he in essence is
saying that, as far as he knew, he was not associated with the great
and terrible day of the LORD. But if that is the case, what did John
think of Jesus and his own comments about Jesus taking away the
sins of the world (John 1:29)? We will never know. But we can know
what Jesus thought of John. Jesus not only says that John is the greatest
of all men born, but that he was more than a prophet (Matthew
11:11). He says that if you can believe it, John is in fact Elijah who is
to come (Matthew 11:14; Matthew 17:11-13). By saying this about
John, Jesus is claiming that His own coming is the great and terrible
day of the LORD. We must know that in Jewish terms, this is the
final event in history. Christians tend to think of Christ as having
come once and that He will come again; but for Jews, their Messiah​

was to come once and rule and reign in a Davidic kingdom (Ezekiel

34:23-24). Jesus, in claiming that John was Elijah, is staking His
claim that He is with the Jews, that the coming Messiah did in fact
come (Jesus, Himself), and so did the great and terrible day of the​

LORD.

taken from Heresy, by Keith Swainson

Hello, my friend,
Does this mean that nobody comes to restore all things before our end time in prophecy? Who will also make the path clear for the coming Christ or is that not to occur? It sort of seems that we have a need for Elijah and Moses to come and of course, our Messiah. How will this work out? Thanks

 

[Interplanner]

Jon, please remember we are talking about the judgement of the world. I don't think it does any good to have a morbid interest in the exact details and arguments over them about what certain characters' roles might be.

The NT interps the OT. If Christ and the apostles say that was Elijah, we must go with that. Whenever Christ said 'if you can accept it' or 'if you have ears to hear' he was serious that he was making it a positive identity.

 

[swainkas]

SG9,

The point I try to make throughout my book is that Jesus was God in the flesh. As such His first coming was the fulfillment of all prophecy. John being Elijah is just one example of this. Another is Ez 44:1-2 where it is mentioned that the Eastern Gate of Jerusalem would be shut because the LORD God Almighty has entered through it. This is the only closed gate in Old Jerusalem and is yet another prophecy fulfillment when Jesus is considered appropriately. The point of all these is that Jesus' death and resurrection were all He planned to do to establish His kingdom on earth. His Spirit already roams all over the earth and indwells us. His kingdom can be made no more real or present than it already is.

 

[Bible2]

swainkas said in post 633:

The point of all these is that Jesus' death and resurrection were all He planned to do to establish His kingdom on earth. His Spirit already roams all over the earth and indwells us. His kingdom can be made no more real or present than it already is.

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

 

[swainkas]

Bible2,

Nice collection of verses.

Will respond more when I get to a computer tomorrow.

But, I wanted to thank you for your effort.

 

[precepts]

precepts said in post 621:

The antichrist is cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet, Rev 19:20.

That's right.

So who is the 11th horn in Dan 7:11?

The beast which comes up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-16) represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13).

The 11th horn in Dan 7:11?





The facts you continue to ignore:
(1) Dan 7's 4th beast with the ten horns is the 1st beast in Rev 13 with ten horns.

(2) They both represent Rome.

(3) The 11th horn that comes up after the ten horns in Dan 7 is the 2nd beast in Rev 13, the false prophet.

(4) Dan 7:11 is Rev 19:20, the Beast/the antichrist and the false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire.

(5) The Beast/antichrist has to be the 8th horn among Dan 7's ten horn beast because the false prophet is the 11th horn, the 2nd beast in Rev 13.

(6) The ten kings in Rev 17:12 has to be the ten horns in Dan 7's 4th ten horned beast because the beast/antichrist and the false prophet are the 8th and 11th horns, and there's no life after the 11th horn and the 8th horn are cast into the lake of fire in Dan 7:11.

(7a) The ten horns of Dan 7's 4th ten horned beast has to be the the 1st beast in Rev 13's 7 headed 10 horned beast.

(7b) The ten horns are the same ten horns on each beast because they represent Rome and her first ten kings.

(8) The fourth beast in Dan 7's king is the first king of Rome, Augustus Caesar




- And my unanswered request, name the four kings representing the four beasts kingdoms in Dan 7:17, please.!



Checkmate!

 

[interpreter]

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Since 312 AD the kingdom of God has been on earth. The first kingdom of God to rule the world was established by St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow. The 4th Christian superpower is the US. Our weapons bring hell and death.

Elijah

 

[shturt678]

Christ's Kingdom here on earth where He rules with His grace and Gospel way before 300 A.D. Christ's heavenly Kingdom is where He rules in heavenly glory, IITim.4:18.

Just ol' old Jack that doesn't even rule in my own home

 

[swainkas]

Since 312 AD the kingdom of God has been on earth. The first kingdom of God to rule the world was established by St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow. The 4th Christian superpower is the US. Our weapons bring hell and death.

Eijah

Interpreter,

Thanks for your comments.

According to the words of Christ during the Last Supper, the kingdom of God here on earth came at the latest on resurrection day. Jesus said that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine again until He did so with them in His Father's kingdom, which He drank on the cross. He also said He would not partake of a Passover meal again until it was fulfilled in the kingdom. He ate day-four of the Passover meal with them on resurrection day in the upper room.

I see no reason to think that the kingdom took another 300 years to be established, when Christ clearly communicated by His actions after the Last Supper that it was established within the week of His crucifixion.

 

[swainkas]

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Bible2,

You have an amazing grouping of scriptures here. To make my point, I will cover only a few of them so you can see the pattern I try to address in my book, Heresy. In the book, I try to make the case that if Jesus was God in the flesh, which I think He was, then His first coming was the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies associated with a coming kingdom.

You cite 2 Samuel 7:16-29, but I would like to cite, not David's prayer, but part of the prophecy from Nathan in the proceeding verses.

12 When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

Jesus was clearly the intended descendant that God through Nathan was referring to. The kingdom has been established here on earth according to Christ's words during the Last Supper when He said He would not eat of the Passover meal again or drink of the fruit of the vine again until He did so in His Father's kingdom. He did both, drink on the night of the crucifixion and eat the Passover meal on the day of His resurrection. So, His kingdom has been going on now for 2000 years, and will continue on forever as the prophecy foretold.

You cite Zechariah 14:3-5 as a future event. I contend it is a past tense event.

3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

Jesus, if He was God, and I do believe He was, already stepped all over the Mount of Olives. So this prophecy, some five hundred years before Christ was fulfilled in the fact that the LORD's feet, God's, i.e., Jesus' feet would stand on that mount, which they did when Jesus' feet stood on that mountain, see Luke 22:39. As for the mountain splitting in two, Luke, the Gospel writer links the coming of John the Baptist, with Jesus' coming and the mountains splitting and such, see Luke 3:4-6 & Isaiah 40:4-5. So as far as Luke is concerned, that part of the prophecy was fulfilled too.

You mention of the kingdom that it "will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21)..."

I would suggest that the kingdom is already physically here. We Christians who are members of Christ's kingdom are physical and populate every country on planet earth. What makes the kingdom spiritual in any sense is the fact that we are indwelt by God's Spirit, see John 14:17. I ask this question regularly: How will Jesus setting up a throne in Jerusalem make Him any closer to the millions of followers He has around the world than He already is? He is "in" us, how can He be any closer or more real to us by establishing a throne several thousand miles away? I am currently His servant and friend. I see no way for Him to be closer to me this side of heaven. In heaven I might be closer to Him, but I dare not touch on a subject Jesus spoke so little about.