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and what happens if you're wrong, sheepdog?Fairy tale?
If you are a born again Christian you will be raptured soon regardless of your self theories. If you are not a born again Christian you still have time. but not much!
I will disagree with you about the be-headings in the trib...zeke37
We are beheaded for not worshiping the beast, during the Great Tribulation. I'd like someone to explain to me, the fascination over "pretrip"...What this refers to is a period of 5,993 years, of which we are currently at year 5,983. What is the profit of focusing on this era, in conjunction with the Great Tribulation? It totally escapes me. I feel like we're going backward, loosing focus. This is "pretrivb" for goodness sakes. What is the point? If I never hear a reference to "pretrib, every again, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. Help me with this please.
zeke37
The Great Tribulation, from beginning to end, lasts a total of 7 years, agreed?
at the very end of it,How far into those 7 years do you suppose the rapture should take place?
and what happens if you're wrong, sheepdog?
what if there is no pre-tribulation rapture?
Interesting post.and yet Christ also said "what i say unto you, i say unto all: stay awake" (mark 13:37)
and paul himself said even though the day of the Lord my come like a thief in the night, we are not in darkness for that day to overtake us like a thief (1 Thessalonians 5:1-6)
Christ Himself gave us the general time of his return: after the tribulation (Mathew 24:29-31)
not to mention He has told us everything beforehand, so that nothing would be hidden from us (Matthew 24:25)
to say that the rapture was hidden from the church until "better interpretative methods" is a contradiction, because it only appeared in church doctrine in the early 1800's... Yahweh doesn't hide things from His bride for 1800 years...
pre-trib is simply another feel-good politically correct message... contorting the message to make people feel happy, warm, and fuzzy
and yet Christ also said "what i say unto you, i say unto all: stay awake" (mark 13:37)
Jesus himself said that no one knows when he will return.
you're right, Christ never did say to watch political things... however He DID say that we would know the signs and the times.
you're going off on becoming lazy and lukearm... that's already happening within the church... however, as we look at our world today, we can definitely discern that we are nearing the end as Christ predicted it would. from the parable of the fig tree, we will know when the time is near, even at the gates
Jesus himself said that no one knows the day or hour. He was explicit about all the signs of when it's about to take place. Those who believe will know when it's about to happen.
1. If you are thinking of the passage in Mark 13, Jesus was talking about the destruction of the temple. Some of it might apply to the end of the world, but does that mean the end of the world as we know it today, or the end of THEIR world? The early church was persecuted under Saul, and afterwards. The disciples were either killed, tortured, scattered or sent off in exile. There was a church in Jerusalem - what happened to it when the Romans conquered the city and destroyed the temple in AD 70?
Why would the Gospel writers tell us of the signs WE have to look out for in the 21st century, when they believed Jesus would return before that and had no idea the world would go on that long?
2. Does the date of his return make any difference? If someone told you he is coming back in 2 years time; you only have 2 years to make peace with people, proclaim the Gospel to as many as possible or whatever. But isn't that what we should be doing now? Shouldn't we all be living for him today?
What did Jesus say at his ascension? "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you ........ will be my witnesses ...". The angels also told them to stop gazing into the sky - so they returned to Jerusalem.
Ahhh. I just found a thread on it. Thks JenInteresting post.
Where does it show the "rapture" happening in Revelation? Thanks
Acts 1:6So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
Yes, we should be living daily for Christ. Yes, we do not know the day or hour of Christ's return but he certainly gave us explicit signs of His soon return.
We will know when it's about to happen. The world will be clueless.
I
know they did. But they weren't to know the times and dates then, and I'm not sure that we are now.
But did he? He said those things to the 12, his discciples - how can WE look at them and take them as being signs that he will return SOON, when he said them 2000 years ago?
The world is clueless now. Most people don't know who Jesus was when he came the first time, never mind grasping the fact that he's coming back again. And even if we know for a fact the year of his return and announce it on the news, papers etc - what purpose will it serve? Who's going to believe us? Other Christians? Unlikely, when there's a new group predicting the end of the world every year or so. The world? Even more unlikely.
Don't let me dissuade you from this, (though I suspect I couldn't); if watching the political scene/world events and trying to work out the time of his coming is what God wants you to do, and if this deepens your faith and relationship with Jesus - go for it.
It just doesn't do it for me.
Of course! Scripture backs that up. The angels said that he will come back in the same way that he went. Scripture backs that up too.
Then why are you dissuading people who are on the watch in this eschatology forum? Why even be on this forum if you are not a watcher?
did i ever say "Christ would return on such and such"?2. Does the date of his return make any difference? If someone told you he is coming back in 2 years time; you only have 2 years to make peace with people, proclaim the Gospel to as many as possible or whatever. But isn't that what we should be doing now? Shouldn't we all be living for him today?
What did Jesus say at his ascension? "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you ........ will be my witnesses ...". The angels also told them to stop gazing into the sky - so they returned to Jerusalem.
did i ever say "Christ would return on such and such"?
no.
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