When Will Christ Return?

[rdcast]

woden

Back in 1844, some thought the return of Christ was imminent. They were known as the Millerites. After 1845 came what was known as the Great Disappointment.

This is the sin of vanity. Where every generation since Jesus Christ's Resurrection, including our own, has predicted His Second Coming. Why do we do it? Why must we believe that Jesus Christ's Second Coming should occur in our life time? Admit it or not, it's due to our insistence that our lives are so important, that, in and of itself, must be the determining factor. Yes, every single generation, INCLUDING our own generation, is so consumed with self-importance, that Jesus Christ should have no choice, but to validate our vanity, by performing His Second Coming, soon and very soon.
---

 

[Brad2009]

I think we're less than 10 years from it. One interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel would put the approximate time around 2016-2017, and that is the interpretation which I hold to so far. Second, Jesus refers to the gospel being preached throughout the world just before the end in the sermon on the mount, and this has been completely accomplished for a very short period of time, but is true now. Third, I also think that the re-establishment of Israel and the agricultural boom which has come from Israel in modern days is a fulfillment of the 'blossoming of the fig tree' spoken of by Jesus in the sermon on the mount.

I think we are soon to see a stunning and unexpected peace treaty between Israel and the world. I also think this will be both the 'covenant with the many' from the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel and the peace to which Paul was referring to when he wrote in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 (ESV):

"2For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."

In the midst of this peace, I believe the abomination which causes desolation (from Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy and referenced by Jesus in the sermon on the mount) will be made plain and the great tribulation will begin.

It will take an obstensibly unlikely turn of world events for these things to be fulfilled, but I believe they will come to pass.

As a final point, Revelation references the fullness of the Earth's harvest and human souls are plainly the object of the harvest (Jesus tells many parables which illustrate the point that human souls are the 'wheat' or 'chaff' and so forth):

Revelation 14:14-16 (ESV)
14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." 16So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

The earth is just about at carrying capacity as far as living human beings goes. If food were optimally distributed, scientists have conjectured a top end of 10 billion inhabitants. However, I wouldn't count on just food distribution until Jesus Christ reigns on the Earth, so 7 billion is probably about as good as this corrupt world system will do.

The signs IMO do point to a short time remaining.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I think we're less than 10 years from it. One interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel would put the approximate time around 2016-2017, and that is the interpretation which I hold to so far. Second, Jesus refers to the gospel being preached throughout the world just before the end in the sermon on the mount, and this has been completely accomplished for a very short period of time, but is true now. Third, I also think that the re-establishment of Israel and the agricultural boom which has come from Israel in modern days is a fulfillment of the 'blossoming of the fig tree' spoken of by Jesus in the sermon on the mount.

I think we are soon to see a stunning and unexpected peace treaty between Israel and the world. I also think this will be both the 'covenant with the many' from the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel and the peace to which Paul was referring to when he wrote in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 (ESV):

"2For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."

In the midst of this peace, I believe the abomination which causes desolation (from Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy and referenced by Jesus in the sermon on the mount) will be made plain and the great tribulation will begin.

It will take an obstensibly unlikely turn of world events for these things to be fulfilled, but I believe they will come to pass.

As a final point, Revelation references the fullness of the Earth's harvest and human souls are plainly the object of the harvest (Jesus tells many parables which illustrate the point that human souls are the 'wheat' or 'chaff' and so forth):

Revelation 14:14-16 (ESV)
14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." 16So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

The earth is just about at carrying capacity as far as living human beings goes. If food were optimally distributed, scientists have conjectured a top end of 10 billion inhabitants. However, I wouldn't count on just food distribution until Jesus Christ reigns on the Earth, so 7 billion is probably about as good as this corrupt world system will do.

The signs IMO do point to a short time remaining.

When Jesus was speaking in Matt 24, whose desolation do you think he was referring to?

Mat 23:
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


Matt 24:

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Daniel 9:

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Based on those passages, who is/was desolated? How long has that desolation lasted?


When will that desolation end?

Hsa 6:2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Mic 5:3Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor gives birth and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites.

 

[Achilles6129]

rdcast:

The idea of a one world government doesn't exist in prophecy. And if we consider where it mentions similar global power, by the time it even gets close to existing, it will be over. So we can't use that as a sign, but as the end.

It is all over prophecy.

"7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Rev. 13:7

"23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces." Dan. 7:23

rdcast:

We don't have the Antichrist either, and you can't assure we will, in our life time.

I can assure that the antichrist will rise very soon after the global government is in place:

"24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings." Dan. 7:24

Therefore, what we really need to be looking for is the one world government. The AC comes soon after that.

rdcast:

Technology isn't prophetic

It absolutely is. Without instant communication there is no way Rev. 11, where the entire world rejoices at the death of the two witnesses, can be fulfilled. Also, without globalization there is absolutely no way the mark of the beast could be implemented.

rdcast:

Perhaps you have something more firm in your "on and on"

Well, there were other things the Millerites overlooked as well. For instance, beheading has to come back as a major form of execution:

"4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Rev. 20:4

My suggestion is that the AC will bring this back. Anyways, my point was the Millerites were being very premature in their idea that Christ was soon to return. We, however, are not, because we have almost all of the signs needed.

 

[rdcast]

Achilles6129

rdcast:



It is all over prophecy.

"7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Rev. 13:7

"23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces." Dan. 7:23

I can assure that the antichrist will rise very soon after the global government is in place:

"24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings." Dan. 7:24

Therefore, what we really need to be looking for is the one world government. The AC comes soon after that.

It absolutely is. Without instant communication there is no way Rev. 11, where the entire world rejoices at the death of the two witnesses, can be fulfilled. Also, without globalization there is absolutely no way the mark of the beast could be implemented.

Well, there were other things the Millerites overlooked as well. For instance, beheading has to come back as a major form of execution:

"4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Rev. 20:4

My suggestion is that the AC will bring this back. Anyways, my point was the Millerites were being very premature in their idea that Christ was soon to return. We, however, are not, because we have almost all of the signs needed.

I can be most self-centered at my detriment. When I feel ignored, I tend to amuse myself by playing the devils advocate. This time, I'm glad I did, for it helped you to put a finer point on your thoughts. Thank you.

May I add, concerning the beheadings? I don't approve the practice of tattooing, BUT(big but), I may have a dotted line tattooed around my neck with a small pair of scissors, with small print that reads, "In the name of Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, please cut here". What an honor, horrifying as it seems, to give our lives for the One who gave His for us all.

Love you brother, in Jesus Christ, our Redeemer!

 

[zeke37]

Rev20:4 really does not say that the ones in the trib will be beheaded.

through scripture we have learned that there are firstfruits.

Christ being the firstfruit...
and those of us who love Him are called firstfruits too!

in the end times, the faithfull believers/witnesses alive on earth are called firstfruits (144,000)
and the unfaithfull believers are harlots/with child/seduced/beguiled

Satan is coming here himself and will pretend to be Jesus Christ returned
and he will fool most Christians





the firstfruits are made up of the elect on earth
AND
the elect dead in heaven that Christ brings with Him





dead in the flesh today, and waiting in heaven
as john the Baptist is (he was actually beheaded and is why the beheaded is mentioned IMO)

or

on earth waiting faithfully for the Lord to Come and gather them together.
they go through the trib witness against the false Christ
and are alive to be changed and gathered to Christ,

so they are not beheaded

the beheaded part is for those of the past like John the Baptist
not for the left behind series fictional account of Chrsitians in the trib......

the whole ...choose Satan or get your head chopped off, scenario
is a fairytale

 

[rdcast]

zeke37

You were going good till u restricted it to just the past...beheading is definitely coming back.
Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These beheaded believers lived during the reign of the tribulation beast, while avoiding his mark. It just might be, the largest number of beheadings ever, not that I'd be so honored to be among the beheaded.

 

[Satt]

zeke37

You were going good till u restricted it to just the past...beheading is definitely coming back.
Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These beheaded believers lived during the reign of the tribulation beast, while avoiding his mark. It just might be, the largest number of beheadings ever, not that I'd be so honored to be among the beheaded.

Radical Islam perhaps?

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Seven Major Signs of the second Coming

1. Israel Will Be In The Land… Ezekiel 36:24, 37:21
For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land .

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.

2. Jerusalem Will Be In Jewish Hands… Luke 21:24
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

3. A Moslem Coalition Armed And Led By Russia Will Attack The Holy Land… Ezek. 38:2-6 (This is after the Psalms 83/Isaiah 17 war)

“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him. This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army–your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops–the many nations with you.”

4. The Ancient Roman Empire Will Re-Emerge As A Political Force… Rev 17:9-10
“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.” (This one is a little obscure if you don’t know your history. When John was writing this, about 95AD, there had been five great world powers; Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece. All were conquered and absorbed. The current power was Rome, which was never really conquered and will re-emerge at the end of the age, according to Daniel 9:26.)

5. The World Will Embrace A Single Religion… Rev 13:8
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast–all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

6. The World Will Accept A Single Government… Rev 13:3

7. Babylon Will Re-Emerge As A Prominent City In World Affairs… Rev 18:2-3
With a mighty voice he shouted: “Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird. For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.


Praise God I wont be here on earth much longer!

 

[zeke37]

zeke37

You were going good till u restricted it to just the past...beheading is definitely coming back.
Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These beheaded believers lived during the reign of the tribulation beast, while avoiding his mark. It just might be, the largest number of beheadings ever, not that I'd be so honored to be among the beheaded.

as I impied, beheadings in the trib are not mentioned...

the word AND in the kjv, in this verse, is a divider...
it is called a polysendendant....

the beheaded, like John the baptist, was in the past...and even today...
up till the trib begins....

IMO only the two olive trees will be killed in the trib, as martyrs
everyone else is either protected by God (luke21)
or marked of the beast (stung, not killed, Rev9)

but no beheadings in the trib

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,

and for the word of God,

and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

as in Gen1, the word AND divides the thought...

this simply says that the ones on the thrones and judging are either....

martyred for Christ, as John the Baptist was (firstfruits in heaven)
or
alive to witness against the beast, thus not taking his mark (firstfruits on earth)


it does not say that they either take the mark or get beheaded...
that is pure fiction

 

[zeke37]

Seven Major Signs of the second Coming

1. Israel Will Be In The Land… Ezekiel 36:24, 37:21
For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land .

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.

2. Jerusalem Will Be In Jewish Hands… Luke 21:24
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

3. A Moslem Coalition Armed And Led By Russia Will Attack The Holy Land… Ezek. 38:2-6 (This is after the Psalms 83/Isaiah 17 war)

“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him. This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army–your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops–the many nations with you.”

4. The Ancient Roman Empire Will Re-Emerge As A Political Force… Rev 17:9-10
“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.” (This one is a little obscure if you don’t know your history. When John was writing this, about 95AD, there had been five great world powers; Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece. All were conquered and absorbed. The current power was Rome, which was never really conquered and will re-emerge at the end of the age, according to Daniel 9:26.)

5. The World Will Embrace A Single Religion… Rev 13:8
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast–all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

6. The World Will Accept A Single Government… Rev 13:3

7. Babylon Will Re-Emerge As A Prominent City In World Affairs… Rev 18:2-3
With a mighty voice he shouted: “Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird. For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.


Praise God I wont be here on earth much longer!

not that I agree with all your theories,
but where ya going....???????

you don't believe in the fairytale pre trib rapture do you? Ez13

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Fairy tale?

If you are a born again Christian you will be raptured soon regardless of your self theories. If you are not a born again Christian you still have time. but not much!

 

[zeke37]

there is no pretrib rapture friend...I was once in that camp...it is a lie from Satan
God needs you the very most in that time, not flying off....fatasy

churches are defined as candelsticks in Rev1...further defined in Rev2-3...

2 of them are not chastized by Christ and share the same doctrine
2 of them are seen against the beast in Rev11

and Satan himself is cast out of heaven, and goes after the believers in Christ in Rev12's short season.

we are here, either remaining faithful thus protected by God
or marked of the beast..seduced beguiled...and harlots for Satan's lies, including pretrib

he's coming FIRST to fool you!
looking like Christ with supernatural abilities
and he WILL be worshiped as God.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

there is no pretrib rapture friend...I was once in that camp...it is a lie from Satan
God needs you the very most in that time, not flying off....fatasy

churches are defined as candelsticks in Rev1...further defined in Rev2-3...

2 of them are not chastized by Christ and share the same doctrine
2 of them are seen against the beast in Rev11

and Satan himself is cast out of heaven, and goes after the believers in Christ in Rev12's short season.

we are here, either remaining faithful thus protected by God
or marked of the beast..seduced beguiled...and harlots for Satan's lies, including pretrib

he's coming FIRST to fool you!
looking like Christ with supernatural abilities
and he WILL be worshiped as God.

That is not scriptural.

When this tribulation that began with the desolation of Israel is cut short, the church will be gathered.

Those that remain are "the rest of her offspring" - they are those who weren't ready. They will have to die as martyrs to be included with the Bride. Otherwise, they will be judged post-millenium.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

there is no pretrib rapture friend...I was once in that camp...it is a lie from Satan
God needs you the very most in that time, not flying off....fatasy

churches are defined as candelsticks in Rev1...further defined in Rev2-3...

2 of them are not chastized by Christ and share the same doctrine
2 of them are seen against the beast in Rev11

and Satan himself is cast out of heaven, and goes after the believers in Christ in Rev12's short season.

we are here, either remaining faithful thus protected by God
or marked of the beast..seduced beguiled...and harlots for Satan's lies, including pretrib

he's coming FIRST to fool you!
looking like Christ with supernatural abilities
and he WILL be worshiped as God.

Very well said brother.

 

[rdcast]

Satt

Radical Islam perhaps?

Seems likely...I've seen some of their work, and it ain't pretty.

 

[rdcast]

zeke37

as I impied, beheadings in the trib are not mentioned...

the word AND in the kjv, in this verse, is a divider...
it is called a polysendendant....

the beheaded, like John the baptist, was in the past...and even today...
up till the trib begins....

IMO only the two olive trees will be killed in the trib, as martyrs
everyone else is either protected by God (luke21)
or marked of the beast (stung, not killed, Rev9)

but no beheadings in the trib

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,

and for the word of God,

and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

as in Gen1, the word AND divides the thought...

this simply says that the ones on the thrones and judging are either....

martyred for Christ, as John the Baptist was (firstfruits in heaven)
or
alive to witness against the beast, thus not taking his mark (firstfruits on earth)


it does not say that they either take the mark or get beheaded...
that is pure fiction

We are beheaded for not worshiping the beast, during the Great Tribulation. I'd like someone to explain to me, the fascination over "pretrip"...What this refers to is a period of 5,993 years, of which we are currently at year 5,983. What is the profit of focusing on this era, in conjunction with the Great Tribulation? It totally escapes me. I feel like we're going backward, loosing focus. This is "pretrivb" for goodness sakes. What is the point? If I never hear a reference to "pretrib, every again, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. Help me with this please.

 

[rdcast]

the.Sheepdog

Fairy tale?

If you are a born again Christian you will be raptured soon regardless of your self theories. If you are not a born again Christian you still have time. but not much!

How about for the BACKSLIDDEN?

 

[rdcast]

HisdaughterJen

That is not scriptural.

When this tribulation that began with the desolation of Israel is cut short, the church will be gathered.

Those that remain are "the rest of her offspring" - they are those who weren't ready. They will have to die as martyrs to be included with the Bride. Otherwise, they will be judged post-millenium.

How do you tie the weak in faith, having failed their Lord, to the Christian Martyrs of great faith? God will grant the evil ones, a last chance to heap added cinders upon their heads, by accepting the offering up of the most faithful.

 

[rdcast]

zeke37

there is no pretrib rapture friend...I was once in that camp...it is a lie from Satan
God needs you the very most in that time, not flying off....fatasy

churches are defined as candelsticks in Rev1...further defined in Rev2-3...

2 of them are not chastized by Christ and share the same doctrine
2 of them are seen against the beast in Rev11

and Satan himself is cast out of heaven, and goes after the believers in Christ in Rev12's short season.

we are here, either remaining faithful thus protected by God
or marked of the beast..seduced beguiled...and harlots for Satan's lies, including pretrib

he's coming FIRST to fool you!
looking like Christ with supernatural abilities
and he WILL be worshiped as God.

The Great Tribulation, from beginning to end, lasts a total of 7 years, agreed? How far into those 7 years do you suppose the rapture should take place?