When Will Christ Return?

[Super Kal]

Fairy tale?

If you are a born again Christian you will be raptured soon regardless of your self theories. If you are not a born again Christian you still have time. but not much!

and what happens if you're wrong, sheepdog?
what if there is no pre-tribulation rapture?

 

[zeke37]

zeke37

We are beheaded for not worshiping the beast, during the Great Tribulation. I'd like someone to explain to me, the fascination over "pretrip"...What this refers to is a period of 5,993 years, of which we are currently at year 5,983. What is the profit of focusing on this era, in conjunction with the Great Tribulation? It totally escapes me. I feel like we're going backward, loosing focus. This is "pretrivb" for goodness sakes. What is the point? If I never hear a reference to "pretrib, every again, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. Help me with this please.

I will disagree with you about the be-headings in the trib...
I don't buy that one little bit....and I showed my understanding of Rev20:4

the antiChrist is coming pretending to be Christ, and playing church...
he will not be lopping off heads.
no one would "worship" him "as God" if he was lopping off heads....


Luk21:12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19In your patience possess ye your souls.

death here is Satan's name, not literal death because of verse 18

...the one that has the power of death is Satan...Heb2


so I assume you are waiting another 10 years or so for the trib to begin?

if you see a world government and a world wide currency,
then we're there!

 

[zeke37]

zeke37

The Great Tribulation, from beginning to end, lasts a total of 7 years, agreed?

Hi

no...I disagree...
Our Messiah taught us that the time has been shortened for the elect's sake,
and it was already that long in Daniel...
so it has to be shortened from that previous amount of time to a shorter amount of time.

IMO Rev9 teaches us how long the trib/final hour really is...
5 month flood of lies from the dragon's mouth,
like the 5 month flood of Noah's day

How far into those 7 years do you suppose the rapture should take place?

at the very end of it,
the very day when the Lord actually returns and sets foot on earth....

not before then!

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

and what happens if you're wrong, sheepdog?
what if there is no pre-tribulation rapture?

There is a pretrib rapture for sure. The beasts project a messiah onto the clouds gathering a multitude, then coming down to restore the earth.

So long as noone falls for this false messiah, all is good.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There is a pretrib rapture for sure. The beasts project a messiah onto the clouds gathering a multitude, then coming down to restore the earth.

So long as noone falls for this false messiah, all is good.

Never heard it put quite like that before.....

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus himself said that no one knows when he will return.

 

[Super Kal]

and yet Christ also said "what i say unto you, i say unto all: stay awake" (mark 13:37)
and paul himself said even though the day of the Lord my come like a thief in the night, we are not in darkness for that day to overtake us like a thief (1 Thessalonians 5:1-6)
Christ Himself gave us the general time of his return: after the tribulation (Mathew 24:29-31)
not to mention He has told us everything beforehand, so that nothing would be hidden from us (Matthew 24:25)

to say that the rapture was hidden from the church until "better interpretative methods" is a contradiction, because it only appeared in church doctrine in the early 1800's... Yahweh doesn't hide things from His bride for 1800 years...
pre-trib is simply another feel-good politically correct message... contorting the message to make people feel happy, warm, and fuzzy

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

and yet Christ also said "what i say unto you, i say unto all: stay awake" (mark 13:37)
and paul himself said even though the day of the Lord my come like a thief in the night, we are not in darkness for that day to overtake us like a thief (1 Thessalonians 5:1-6)
Christ Himself gave us the general time of his return: after the tribulation (Mathew 24:29-31)
not to mention He has told us everything beforehand, so that nothing would be hidden from us (Matthew 24:25)

to say that the rapture was hidden from the church until "better interpretative methods" is a contradiction, because it only appeared in church doctrine in the early 1800's... Yahweh doesn't hide things from His bride for 1800 years...
pre-trib is simply another feel-good politically correct message... contorting the message to make people feel happy, warm, and fuzzy

Interesting post.
Where does it show the "rapture" happening in Revelation? Thanks

 

[Strong in Him]

and yet Christ also said "what i say unto you, i say unto all: stay awake" (mark 13:37)

He said we were to stay alert, he didn't say that we were to try and work things out by looking at the political scene and when certain things had happened, and THEN be ready for his coming.
A person who believed that Jesus wasn't returning for another 20-30 years, could be very blase, or indifferent, about how they live NOW. Don't forget the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. The bridegroom was longer in coming than they expected, and they weren't prepared. In Luke 12:35-48 Jesus also tells to be dressed and ready for service. The servant who said that his master was a long time in returning and began to behave badly, (v45-46) was punished.

Even the apostles believed they were in end times, and thought that Jesus would return before they died.

 

[Super Kal]

you're right, Christ never did say to watch political things... however He DID say that we would know the signs and the times.

you're going off on becoming lazy and lukearm... that's already happening within the church... however, as we look at our world today, we can definitely discern that we are nearing the end as Christ predicted it would. from the parable of the fig tree, we will know when the time is near, even at the gates

they never believed in "imminency" as it is taught today in modern dispensational pulpits... they believed in expectancy. If christ taught imminence, he would of told Peter how he was going to die, or tell Paul that he would die for the sake of Christ... too many plotholes and fallacies in pre-trib.

Paul never said he looked for some rapture... he said he looked for the resurrection of the just.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Jesus himself said that no one knows when he will return.

Jesus himself said that no one knows the day or hour. He was explicit about all the signs of when it's about to take place. Those who believe will know when it's about to happen.

1Th 5:4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

[Strong in Him]

you're right, Christ never did say to watch political things... however He DID say that we would know the signs and the times.

you're going off on becoming lazy and lukearm... that's already happening within the church... however, as we look at our world today, we can definitely discern that we are nearing the end as Christ predicted it would. from the parable of the fig tree, we will know when the time is near, even at the gates

Well maybe. All I know is that;
a) Jesus said to be prepared
b) we could be told that the Lord will definitely come back on such and such a date - but die tomorrow.
c) there have been a number of other times in history when they believed they were in end times. During a war, for example, with bombs falling all around them. And some of them were right. Jesus returned for them; they went to be with him.
d) the early church believed Jesus would retuurn before they died. It was only when it looked as if that might not happen, that they began to write accounts of his life and teaching.

So personally I feel it doesn't really matter. We are called to live for God, serve God, be salt and light in the world and live one day at a time ("take no thought for tomorrow, each day has troubles enough of its own."). If we are doing all that, keeping our eyes on Jesus, ready to go where he wants us, willing to become the people he wants us to be, and ready to answer for the hope that is in us, we will be ready - for whenever he should come.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus himself said that no one knows the day or hour. He was explicit about all the signs of when it's about to take place. Those who believe will know when it's about to happen.

1. If you are thinking of the passage in Mark 13, Jesus was talking about the destruction of the temple. Some of it might apply to the end of the world, but does that mean the end of the world as we know it today, or the end of THEIR world? The early church was persecuted under Saul, and afterwards. The disciples were either killed, tortured, scattered or sent off in exile. There was a church in Jerusalem - what happened to it when the Romans conquered the city and destroyed the temple in AD 70?
Why would the Gospel writers tell us of the signs WE have to look out for in the 21st century, when they believed Jesus would return before that and had no idea the world would go on that long?

2. Does the date of his return make any difference? If someone told you he is coming back in 2 years time; you only have 2 years to make peace with people, proclaim the Gospel to as many as possible or whatever. But isn't that what we should be doing now? Shouldn't we all be living for him today?
What did Jesus say at his ascension? "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you ........ will be my witnesses ...". The angels also told them to stop gazing into the sky - so they returned to Jerusalem.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

1. If you are thinking of the passage in Mark 13, Jesus was talking about the destruction of the temple. Some of it might apply to the end of the world, but does that mean the end of the world as we know it today, or the end of THEIR world? The early church was persecuted under Saul, and afterwards. The disciples were either killed, tortured, scattered or sent off in exile. There was a church in Jerusalem - what happened to it when the Romans conquered the city and destroyed the temple in AD 70?
Why would the Gospel writers tell us of the signs WE have to look out for in the 21st century, when they believed Jesus would return before that and had no idea the world would go on that long?

2. Does the date of his return make any difference? If someone told you he is coming back in 2 years time; you only have 2 years to make peace with people, proclaim the Gospel to as many as possible or whatever. But isn't that what we should be doing now? Shouldn't we all be living for him today?
What did Jesus say at his ascension? "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you ........ will be my witnesses ...". The angels also told them to stop gazing into the sky - so they returned to Jerusalem.

Acts 1:6So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." 9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.


Yes, we should be living daily for Christ. Yes, we do not know the day or hour of Christ's return but he certainly gave us explicit signs of His soon return. We will know when it's about to happen. The world will be clueless.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting post.
Where does it show the "rapture" happening in Revelation? Thanks

Ahhh. I just found a thread on it. Thks Jen

http://www.christianforums.com/t7482903/#post55233136
5th Seal is change and catching away-RAPTURE of the church!

 

[Strong in Him]

Acts 1:6So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"

I know they did. But they weren't to know the times and dates then, and I'm not sure that we are now.

Yes, we should be living daily for Christ. Yes, we do not know the day or hour of Christ's return but he certainly gave us explicit signs of His soon return.

But did he? He said those things to the 12, his discciples - how can WE look at them and take them as being signs that he will return SOON, when he said them 2000 years ago?

We will know when it's about to happen. The world will be clueless.

The world is clueless now. Most people don't know who Jesus was when he came the first time, never mind grasping the fact that he's coming back again. And even if we know for a fact the year of his return and announce it on the news, papers etc - what purpose will it serve? Who's going to believe us? Other Christians? Unlikely, when there's a new group predicting the end of the world every year or so. The world? Even more unlikely.

Don't let me dissuade you from this, (though I suspect I couldn't); if watching the political scene/world events and trying to work out the time of his coming is what God wants you to do, and if this deepens your faith and relationship with Jesus - go for it.
It just doesn't do it for me.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I
know they did. But they weren't to know the times and dates then, and I'm not sure that we are now.



But did he? He said those things to the 12, his discciples - how can WE look at them and take them as being signs that he will return SOON, when he said them 2000 years ago?

Of course! Scripture backs that up. The angels said that he will come back in the same way that he went. Scripture backs that up too.

The world is clueless now. Most people don't know who Jesus was when he came the first time, never mind grasping the fact that he's coming back again. And even if we know for a fact the year of his return and announce it on the news, papers etc - what purpose will it serve? Who's going to believe us? Other Christians? Unlikely, when there's a new group predicting the end of the world every year or so. The world? Even more unlikely.

Read the 6th seal of Rev 6. Everyone will know that the return of Christ has begun at that moment in time. Everyone will know when EVERY EYE shall see him coming on the clouds after the 7th seal.

Don't let me dissuade you from this, (though I suspect I couldn't); if watching the political scene/world events and trying to work out the time of his coming is what God wants you to do, and if this deepens your faith and relationship with Jesus - go for it.
It just doesn't do it for me.

Then why are you dissuading people who are on the watch in this eschatology forum? Why even be on this forum if you are not a watcher?

 

[Strong in Him]

Of course! Scripture backs that up. The angels said that he will come back in the same way that he went. Scripture backs that up too.

I know. I was talking about Mark 13 and other passages, and just reflecting on them.

Then why are you dissuading people who are on the watch in this eschatology forum? Why even be on this forum if you are not a watcher?

I'm not dissuading anyone. I responded to a poll, posted an opinion, and asked a couple of questions. I thought that was allowed on a public forum.
If you're saying that this sub forum is ONLY for those who are noting specific signs and trying to work out exactly when Jesus will return, and you have to have a definite view on the end tmes to be able to post here; I'll leave.

 

[Super Kal]

2. Does the date of his return make any difference? If someone told you he is coming back in 2 years time; you only have 2 years to make peace with people, proclaim the Gospel to as many as possible or whatever. But isn't that what we should be doing now? Shouldn't we all be living for him today?
What did Jesus say at his ascension? "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you ........ will be my witnesses ...". The angels also told them to stop gazing into the sky - so they returned to Jerusalem.

did i ever say "Christ would return on such and such"?
no.

Christ did say, though, that He would come after the tribulation... nothing about imminence there. just plain expectancy.

 

[Strong in Him]

did i ever say "Christ would return on such and such"?
no.

I never said you did.

Unsubscribing.