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Not fiction, but hard proof. Many pages of actual quotations from numerous ancient writers making clear statements of exactly what I stated.Ah, a work of fiction then.
I agree. It seemed kind to say "borderline." Dispensalionalism has also had very bad effects on the church as it embraced it. Taught the church to wait for the "rapture" and do little among other evils.
You didn’t ask what I believe.
David, I answed too quickly. Please read my answe to this as i disagreed with me. My apologies. I was thinking of something else. Yes, of course Rome was the kingdom mentioned different that all the others. But I do not see the Catholics playing an role in the matter nor Constantine. The empire was not moved to the east. There was an explansion but it still was centered in Rome, Italy under Constatine. I think you are trying to make it fit. I do not see the Papacy playing any role at all in fulfillment of scripture.
I’ve heard of this in the last few hundred years. Pretty sad outcome as Jesus didn’t show up.The Irvingites, one of the earliest Dispensationalist groups said that the "rapture" would be in mid 1833. They actually gathered together for the event.
One of the most common epithets John Nelson Darby would hurl against his foes was to accuse them of "Irvingism." He despised Irving, and everything he stood for. People accuse him of getting his ideas from Irving, but he actually got them from Lewis Way and William Lowth.The Irvingites, one of the earliest Dispensationalist groups said that the "rapture" would be in mid 1833. They actually gathered together for the event.
ALL of the Caesars ruled from Rome.Actually it wasn't centered on Rome. No one ruled from Rome except the papcy till 1870. Capitals: Milan, Ravenna, Mediolanum Never from Rome. The only Roman Emperor to rule from Rome was the pope,till his dominions were taken away in 1870, and who has millions more in his kingdom than the Empire ever did.
I’ll tell you what, I’ll look into this more as I have time. Is that fair?Actually it wasn't centered on Rome. No one ruled from Rome except the papcy till 1870. Capitals: Milan, Ravenna, Mediolanum Never from Rome. The only Roman Emperor to rule from Rome was the pope,till his dominions were taken away in 1870, and who has millions more in his kingdom than the Empire ever did.
ALL of the Caesars ruled from Rome.
Dorothy, I think you only say that because youwant to prove, that the book was written pre AD 70. Preterism depends on it being pre AD70, and there is no historical evidence s far as I have seen that supports that, However you reject the evidence that says it was post AD 70 becouse it doesn't fit your therories. That is dishonest. For historicism and futurism it dosn't make any difference whether it is pre or post, both stand or fall on other matters. Remember well that historicism is the only teaching that has not been promoted by the RCC.I am puzzled why you provide what others say the ancient documents say. Why don't you say what they say with supporting quotes? Not quotes of others who talk about them, but the real deal.
You did not prove anything. Frankly speaking, you bring your whole position into question by not recognizing that you offer no proof at all. Do you know everything Irenaeus wrote including lost documents? Do you realize that people do sometimes make up stuff? Nowhis, if it occured, releases the other men from getting their stuff from Irenaeus, but the reliabity has not increased by having no supporting documents including Irenaeus. t
In any case, your whole position rests on what others say. That is it. And some of what they say was way off. It is easy to think men in the past where somehow closer to the truth by living within centures of the events. I am not sure that we would see any old American as totally reliable as to the events in 1776 just because we are living within 300 years of the events and we have better access to information than men did in 300 AD.
I’ll tell you what, I’ll look into this more as I have time. Is that fair?
Correct, saying those words didn't bring Jesus back from heaven. Also, they actually did see Jesus again later when they crucified him.This was very helpful. So saying those words in Jerusalem didn’t bring him back. What do you think Jesus meant?
I am surprised you say that. There is no historical evidence it was written later that looked to me like evidence. The writings of men who knew as much or as little as we know is not evidence. And from what I read, it is actually only guy who said it and the others quoted him. Same guy who said Jesus was 50 when he died or something similar. There is historical evidence for later and what is worse, the internal evidence speaks clearly of pre 70AD.Dorothy, I think you only say that because youwant to prove, that the book was written pre AD 70. Preterism depends on it being pre AD70, and there is no historical evidence s far as I have seen that supports that, However you reject the evidence that says it was post AD 70 becouse it doesn't fit your therories. That is dishonest. For historicism and futurism it dosn't make any difference whether it is pre or post, both stand or fall on other matters. Remember well that historicism is the only teaching that has not been promoted by the RCC.
Please state whether you believe Revelation was written either post 70 AD or Pre 70 AD.
Additionally, please provide evidence to support your belief.
Jn.2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
But he spake of the temple of his body.
Col.1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Gal.3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Eph.4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
Rev.21:22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
But he spake of the temple of his body.
Can you please tell me when this 70 AD thing started?
Thank you.
Please state whether you believe Revelation was written either post 70 AD or Pre 70 AD.
Additionally, please provide evidence to support your belief.
Please state whether you believe Revelation was written either post 70 AD or Pre 70 AD.
Additionally, please provide evidence to support your belief.
I have no view on when it was visioned or written.The syriac version of revelation starts with:
"The Revelation which God made to John the evangelist, in the Island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero Caesar"
Traditions about the death of Antipas usually date it as 92 AD, but some traditions put Antipas WAY EARLIER - in Nero's time. He was Bishop of Pergamos,I think, a martyr mentioned in Revelation.
Scoffers always say that books of the bible were written long after they were because they don't believe in prophecy.
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