When was Revelation written, by whom, and to whom does it apply?

[Root of Jesse]

I agree with your view to an extent. Certainly much of the Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD, but I do not see that the entirety of it was.
God Bless
Jax

I don't see that the entirety was, either.

 

[Revealing Times]

Problem solved then... everybody follow "Revealing Times".

Forgive me...

That might alleviate your confusion of the book, it can be quite intimidating if we do not understand the keys to unlocking it. Out of 404 verses 289 have old testament phraseology. Its a big code book, and the code is the old testament.

Takes effort, but I have been at it 30 years, thus I have been instructed well, via the Holy Spirit.

 

[Revealing Times]

Well tradition can be right and tradition can be wrong. There is a lot of disagreement. But the first few chapters show immanence of Jesus' coming. The rest of Revelation provides proof. You know, much of Revelation is about the Mass.

Me saying I will go with the "Traditions of the Church" means the majority, which usually lends credibility more than going with a fringe tradition.

There are major clues that tend to show this fact also. Why do you think Israel is nowhere to be found in Revelation except when the 144,000 Revelation 7:4 and the 12 Tribes are spoken of in Revelation 21:12. But when speaking about Israel being protected in Rev. 12, it had to be encoded as the WOMAN, because Rome of course had already sacked Jerusalem/Israel.

If Revelation had of been written before 70 AD it is not likely they would have been so fearful of writing the word Israel. Its usually liberal scholars who try to change the Church Traditions and the Authors of the bible etc. etc. I don't put any stock in them, they are usually of Satan and their whole desire is to sow seeds of confusion.

 

[JackRT]

Its usually liberal scholars who try to change the Church Traditions and the Authors of the bible etc. etc. I don't put any stock in them, they are usually of Satan and rheir whole desire is to sow confusion.

It is my experience that these scholars whom you dismiss and condemn so viciously are seeking only to know the truth. Be careful who you condemn and why.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

That might alleviate your confusion of the book, it can be quite intimidating if we do not understand the keys to unlocking it. Out of 404 verses 289 have old testament phraseology. Its a big code book, and the code is the old testament.

Takes effort, but I have been at it 30 years, thus I have been instructed well, via the Holy Spirit.

Is what you have arrived at very different from others?

Forgive me...

 

[Revealing Times]

It is my experience that these scholars whom you dismiss and condemn so viciously are seeking only to know the truth. Be careful who you condemn and why.

Ummmmm no, I see it everyday, they come on with a title saying look at me then say Jesus had wives, or the he might have advocated homosexual relationships etc. etc. I will stick with Gods ways, he picked out unlearned men to be his Disciples.

You are the one that put forth condemnation. You do know the difference between condemnation and pointing out facts right? Or even pointing out wicked ways, which Ezekiel 3:18 COMMANDS US to point out........

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Condemnation is Gods alone, that means one is found guilty and condemned to hell. Calling out right and wrong is not condemnation, people can still repent, see Nineveh.

 

[Revealing Times]

Is what you have arrived at very different from others?

Forgive me...

Yes, its called hearing the Holy Spirit. If you have 200 different interpretations on Babylon, then the Holy Spirit is not a part of that. There is one right answer, and way too many people who are not called to prophecy are trying to dissect these prophesies.

God has given me the gift of understanding these things. To me they come easy.

 

[Goatee]

Yes, its called hearing the Holy Spirit. If you have 200 different interpretations on Babylon, then the Holy Spirit is not a part of that. There is one right answer, and way too many people not called to prophecy are trying to dissect these prophesies.

God has given me the gift of understanding these things. To me they come easy.

You are very lucky then. Thing is, which of the millions of people, who claim to have been given the same gifts as you do people believe?

 

[dqhall]

The Revelation of John has had a long and chequered history. The Church long resisted including it in the canon. At one point in a council of bishops over half abstained from the vote and it was accepted by one vote. In other words less than one quarter of the bishops cared enough for it to vote for its inclusion. Other Christian leaders including Martin Luther have at one time or another attempted to dump it. even today one scholar Earl Doherty has written --- "Despite the apologetic efforts of those seeking to rehabilitate this document for the modern mind, it is difficult to see Revelation as anything more than a paroxysm of hate created by aIinspired writings. John the prophet has cast his spiritual Christ in his own joyless and vengeful image. The voice of this Messiah is his own, ready to punish for every slight, every rejection the prophet has suffered in his missionary work."

Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea was born before the ascension of Constantine to the throne. Constantine's mother Helena was Christian. Constantine legalized Christianity. Constantine appointed Eusebius as one of his spiritual advisors. Eusebius wrote the book, "Ecclesiastical History." In this book Eusebius published detailed accounts of the persecution of Christians under Nero, Domitian and other Roman emperors. From Eusebius one may learn Christians were being fed to lions as public sport. Eusebius also published objections to the book of Revelation made by church leaders in Egypt who had stated the book was not written by the Apostle John, but that that it was a work of fiction.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea was born before the ascension of Constantine to the throne. Constantine's mother Helena was Christian. Constantine legalized Christianity. Constantine appointed Eusebius as one of his spiritual advisors. Eusebius wrote the book, "Ecclesiastical History." In this book Eusebius published detailed accounts of the persecution of Christians under Nero, Domitian and other Roman emperors. From Eusebius one may learn Christians were being fed to lions as public sport. Eusebius also published objections to the book of Revelation made by church leaders in Egypt who had stated the book was not written by the Apostle John, but that that it was a work of fiction.

The Eastern Orthodox Churches teach that it is only there for it's visual witness to heavenly worship.
It has no liturgical value. It is not included in our prayers services.

Forgive me...

 

[dqhall]

I recall reading about an American expedition to document the contents of the library of an ancient Greek monastery at Mt. Athos, Greece. They found copies of individual books of the Bible in the library. Of all the books contained, Revelation was the least popular, with the least number of copies in the library.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That might alleviate your confusion of the book, it can be quite intimidating if we do not understand the keys to unlocking it. Out of 404 verses 289 have old testament phraseology. Its a big code book, and the code is the old testament.

Takes effort, but I have been at it 30 years, thus I have been instructed well, via the Holy Spirit.

Good post and you have been at it a few more years than my humble self.
Perhaps you might be interested in this thread I created a while back.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/allusions-in-revelation-from-old-testament.7588850/

I find this person's view concerning the "allusions" found in the book of Revelation that are found in the Old Testament/Covenant rather fascinating.
Would anyone like to put down verses from Revelation and the verses from the OT/OC that are alluded to it? Thanks

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That is, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I recall reading about an American expedition to document the contents of the library of an ancient Greek monastery at Mt. Athos, Greece. They found copies of individual books of the Bible in the library. Of all the books contained, Revelation was the least popular, with the least number of copies in the library.

Lack of a life in the liturgy will do that... in other words... it just didn't get used.

Still trying to imagine the face of the deacon thy finally handed it to and said include this... "Uh, okay, where do I put it? (We see it wound up at the end.)

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
There are major clues that tend to show this fact also. Why do you think Israel is nowhere to be found in Revelation except when the 144,000 Revelation 7:4 and the 12 Tribes are spoken of in Revelation 21:12............Edit

I would think the Song of Moses in Revelation 15:3 may be a subtle reference to Israel, which is shown in Exodus 15:1?

Exodus 15:1
Then Mosheh is singing and sons of Yisra'el this song to Yahweh
and they are saying to say of,
"I shall sing to Yahweh that to exalt He exalts.
Horse and one riding of him He heaved into the sea [Reve 15:3]
2 Strength of me and melody of Yah. And He becoming to me for salvation.
This One El of me and I shall adorn Him,
Elohiym of father of me and I shall exalt Him"
21 And Miriam is responding to them "sing ye to Yahweh, that to be triumphant He is triumphant,
horse and rider He heaved into Sea.

In this passage, they are also singing the song of the Lamb:

Reve 15:3
And they are singing the Song of Moses, the bond-servant of the God and the Song of the Lamb saying:
"great and marvelous the works of Thee Lord! the God, the Almighty.
Just and true the ways of Thee, the King of the saints" [*ages/*nations].
[Exodus 15]

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' "
The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking.
They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

LUKE 16:29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets;
let them hear them.' "
[JOHN 5:45 "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you — Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.]
LUKE 16:
30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

 

[Revealing Times]

You are very lucky then. Thing is, which of the millions of people, who claim to have been given the same gifts as you do people believe?

Lucky? Or chosen? Abraham was chosen, and I guess you could say fortunate, but God knows all things so He chooses those that are humble, remember Abraham was willing to sacrifice his own child until God stopped him. I see the number key in a relationship with Gd as being Obedience.

God prefers obedience over mercy/sacrifice, He says so in the scriptures.

1 Samuel 1522 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Jesus wan't even given the full power of the Holy Spirit until he came out of the Desert, having been tested by Satan. Read Luke 4, he was LED by the Holy Spirit into the Wilderness, after Satan tested him for 40 days, and Jesus denied him at every turn by using the word of God, then Satan made his last offer of all the Kingdoms of the world being his if he would just bow down and serve him, for it is given unto me to do as I will and I give it to whom I will. Jesus of course said get thee behind me Satan.

Then what says the Scripture?

Jesus came out of the Desert IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.

Obedience is how we get close to God, not Sacrifice. Its easy to say forgive me God, its harder to stay in Gods will.

 

[Revealing Times]

Good post and you have been at it a few more years than my humble self.
Perhaps you might be interested in this thread I created a while back.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/allusions-in-revelation-from-old-testament.7588850/

There is no thread there anymore. But I read the box below and that is the right track.

Dr. Ed Hindson teaches the whole book of Revelation in one hour. Its pretty good, it doesn't get into the deeper things like who is Babylon etc. But its a real good overview. It mentions the Code Book a being the Old Testament.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Me saying I will go with the "Traditions of the Church" means the majority, which usually lends credibility more than going with a fringe tradition.

There are major clues that tend to show this fact also. Why do you think Israel is nowhere to be found in Revelation except when the 144,000 Revelation 7:4 and the 12 Tribes are spoken of in Revelation 21:12. But when speaking about Israel being protected in Rev. 12, it had to be encoded as the WOMAN, because Rome of course had already sacked Jerusalem/Israel.

If Revelation had of been written before 70 AD it is not likely they would have been so fearful of writing the word Israel. Its usually liberal scholars who try to change the Church Traditions and the Authors of the bible etc. etc. I don't put any stock in them, they are usually of Satan and their whole desire is to sow seeds of confusion.

Why is Israel hardly mentioned? Because the old Israel is about to pass away with the destruction of the temple. The woman in Rev 12 is Mary (because the child she gives birth to is Jesus). It is also telling that it doesn't say Mary appeared...because she's in heaven and sinless. If Rome had already sacked Jerusalem, why would they need to be fearful?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Revealing Times said: ↑
Yes, its called hearing the Holy Spirit.
If you have 200 different interpretations on Babylon, then the Holy Spirit is not a part of that.
There is one right answer, and way too many people not called to prophecy are trying to dissect these prophesies.

God has given me the gift of understanding these things. To me they come easy.

We should all be so lucky.
I like this person's extensive commentary on the 7 Churches in Revelation.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series 29
THE SEVEN CHURCHES OF ASIA

The book of Revelation is clearly addressed to “the seven churches which are in Asia.” Considering the purpose of the book of Revelation, why is the book addressed and delivered to seven specific churches only?
Only by the revelation of the mind of the Lord can we understand this!

Rev 1:4
John, to the seven Assemblies which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him Who is and Who was and Who is to come,
and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
Rev 2:7
He who is having an ear -- let him hear! what the Spirit saith to the Assemblies:
To him who is overcoming -- I will give to him to eat of the tree of life that is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Young) Revelation 2:7 He who is having an ear--let him hear
Young) Revelation 2:11 He who is having an ear--let him hear
Young) Revelation 2:17 He who is having an ear--let him hear
Young) Revelation 2:29 He who is having an ear--let him hear
Young) Revelation 3:6 He who is having an ear--let him hear
Young) Revelation 3:13 He who is having an ear--let him hear
Young) Revelation 3:22 He who is having an ear--let him hear
Young) Revelation 13:9 if any one hath an ear--let him hear:

Mat 13:
14 and fulfilled on them is the prophecy of Isaiah, that saith, 'With hearing ye shall hear and ye shall not understand,
and seeing ye shall see, and ye shall not perceive,
15 for made gross was the heart of this people,
and with the ears they heard heavily,
and their eyes they did close,
lest they might see with the eyes, and with the ears might hear, and with the heart understand, and turn back, and I might heal them.

.............................

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Good post and you have been at it a few more years than my humble self.
Perhaps you might be interested in this thread I created a while back.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/allusions-in-revelation-from-old-testament.7588850/

There is no thread there anymore. But I read the box below and that is the right track.

Dr. Ed Hindson teaches the whole book of Revelation in one hour. Its pretty good, it doesn't get into the deeper things like who is Babylon etc. But its a real good overview. It mentions the Code Book a being the Old Testament.

There is no thread there anymore. But I read the box below and that is the right track.

Ahh thanks for bringing that up. For some reason I bolded the title in that link.
I fixed it.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

Dr. Ed Hindson teaches the whole book of Revelation in one hour. Its pretty good, it doesn't get into the deeper things like who is Babylon etc. But its a real good overview. It mentions the Code Book a being the Old Testament

I will have to look at it.
God can accomplish a lot in an hour........

Rev 18:
10
“standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great City Babylon, that mighty city!
For in one hour thy judgment has come.'
17
‘For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.'
Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance
19
“They cast dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great City, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth!
For in one hour she is made desolate.'

Neh 9:1
Now on the twenty-fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, in sackcloth, and with dust on their heads.[fn]

Lamentations 2:10
The elders of the daughter of Zion sit on the ground, they are silent.
They have thrown dust on their heads; They have girded themselves with sackcloth.
The virgins of Jerusalem Have bowed their heads to the ground.

 

[Goatee]

Lucky? Or chosen? Abraham was chosen, and I guess you could say fortunate, but God knows all things so He chooses those that are humble, remember Abraham was willing to sacrifice his own child until God stopped him. I see the number key in a relationship with Gd as being Obedience.

God prefers obedience over mercy/sacrifice, He says so in the scriptures.

1 Samuel 1522 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Jesus wan't even given the full power of the Holy Spirit until he came out of the Desert, having been tested by Satan. Read Luke 4, he was LED by the Holy Spirit into the Wilderness, after Satan tested him for 40 days, and Jesus denied him at every turn by using the word of God, then Satan made his last offer of all the Kingdoms of the world being his if he would just bow down and serve him, for it is given unto me to do as I will and I give it to whom I will. Jesus of course said get thee behind me Satan.

Then what says the Scripture?

Jesus came out of the Desert IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.

Obedience is how we get close to God, not Sacrifice. Its easy to say forgive me God, its harder to stay in Gods will.

Thousands of prophets etc on YouTube too! Are you on there?