When was Revelation written, by whom, and to whom does it apply?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Here is another written reference to the date given by others.

"As to the time of its composition, most commentators suppose it to have been written after the destruction of Jerusalem, about A.D. 96; while others assign it an earlier date."

The American Tract Society Bible Dictionary is a dictionary of the Holy Bible, for general use in the study of the scriptures; with engravings, maps, and tables.
Its copyrights have expired.
Previously published in New York by the American Tract society [c1859]. Rand, W. W. (William Wilberforce), 1816-1909, ed.

Whoever that is...

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

"The view of the Orthodox Church can best be described as "amillenialist"; that is, holding to the teaching that the thousand years mentioned in the Apocalypse refers to the current age of the Church."
Eschatology is not worth the time lost to the prayer rule.
Forgive me...

Interesting. Sounds like a view I may embrance [I am a Preterist for now]
I have a rather unique view of that 1000 yr period concerning Daniel's time, times and half a time, as shown in Reve 12:14 concerning his people, the Jews.

Daniel 12:7
And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens, and sweareth by Him who is living to the age that `After a time, times, and a half, and at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.

Revelation 12:14
and there were given to the woman two wings of the great eagle, that she may fly to the wilderness, to her place, where she is nourished a time and times and half a time, from the face of the serpent;

Notice there are 3 actions taken by the Messenger with the key to the Abyss.
I believe he may be have been bound when Jesus started preaching the Gospel,
and then perhaps cast into the abyss when Jesus ascends in Acts 1,
then let loose for the battle of Gog Magog. Thoughts?

Revelation 20:1 And I perceived a messenger descending out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain on the hand of him.
2 And he seizes the Dragon, the serpent, the ancient, who is a Devil, and [the] Satan/Adversary. And he binds him a thousand years.
3 And he casts him into the abyss, and he locks and he seals over of him, that no he should still be deceiving the nations until should-be-being-finished/telesqh <5055> (5686) the thousand years.
After these, it is binding him to be loosed him a little time

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Forgive me brother and sisters if I seem to be disagreeing for disagreement's sake. The dates are not important.

Revelation has no place in the liturgical world and I should leave it at that.

For me it's the same as Apostles leaving their prayers to tend to administrative work. (The book of ACTS when they first appointed deacons.)

I consider the matter to have nothing to do with our salvation and will humbly accept your interpretations to be yours. I have dabbled in eschatology and left it for a focus on prayer.

Interesting. Sounds like a view I may embrance [I am a Preterist for now]
I have a rather unique view of that 1000 yr period concerning Daniel's time, times and half a time, as shown in Reve 12:14 concerning his people, the Jews.

Daniel 12:7
And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens, and sweareth by Him who is living to the age that `After a time, times, and a half, and at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.

Revelation 12:14
and there were given to the woman two wings of the great eagle, that she may fly to the wilderness, to her place, where she is nourished a time and times and half a time, from the face of the serpent;

Notice there are 3 actions taken by the Messenger with the key to the Abyss.
I believe he may be have been bound when Jesus started preaching the Gospel,
and then perhaps cast into the abyss when Jesus ascends in Acts 1,
then let loose for the battle of Gog Magog. Thoughts?

Revelation 20:1 And I perceived a messenger descending out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain on the hand of him.
2 And he seizes the Dragon, the serpent, the ancient, who is a Devil, and [the] Satan/Adversary. And he binds him a thousand years.
3 And he casts him into the abyss, and he locks and he seals over of him, that no he should still be deceiving the nations until should-be-being-finished/telesqh <5055> (5686) the thousand years.
After these, it is binding him to be loosed him a little time

Yeah.... you're Orthodox at heart! Now if I can just get you singing in the liturgy!

Forgive me...

 

[Goatee]

Too many people think they can interpret Revelation or have the correct meaning to it. End of days doom and gloom abound when people look at that book.

I truly believe it was written for the people of that generation. Things that were going to happen soon. Just like it says in the beginning on the book.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Too many people think they can interpret Revelation or have the correct meaning to it. End of days doom and gloom abound when people look at that book.

I truly believe it was written for the people of that generation. Things that were going to happen soon. Just like it says in the beginning on the book.

The reason it was finally "included" was it's visual descriptions of heaven. The rest of the entire text of canon are used inside the liturgical services. Revelation came too late to be included in the liturgical singing and readings.

Can you imagine the face of the deacon they finally handed it to? "Okay", but where do I put it?

Forgive me...

 

[FenderTL5]

That's the view I've seen most often, I certainly welcome it as both solid and well established. Still I nurse the early date for a number of reasons that might not be all that important, the authorship of the Apostle John however, is not really a serious question for me anymore.

The view I posted does present a somewhat compressed time-line for:
exile->Revelation ->Ephesus->Gospel->epistles
However I don't see it as impossible. Your note about the Syriac is interesting to me, thanks for posting it.

Eschatology is not worth the time lost to the prayer rule.

Amen.
I have a family member who is borderline obsessed with eschatology. In fact, her very first question to me when I became Orthodox was, "what do they believe about the rapture?"
I'll never forget that.
Κύριε ἐλέησον

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Too many people think they can interpret Revelation or have the correct meaning to it. End of days doom and gloom abound when people look at that book.

I truly believe it was written for the people of that generation. Things that were going to happen soon. Just like it says in the beginning on the book.

I am of that view also. Thanks for that.....

Luk 11:50
so that this generation may be held accountable for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,

Rev 16:6
because they poured out the blood of your saints and prophets, so you have given them blood to drink. They got what they deserved!"
Rev 18:24
The blood of the saints and prophets was found in her, along with the blood of all those who had been killed on the earth."

According to Josephus, the whole City became a lake of blood........

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world..................

...........The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah!
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.............

..............Of these unhappy people numbers were left weltering in their gore.
Multitudes of the dead and dying were heaped round about the altar, to which they had formerly fled for protection, while the steps that led from it into the outer court were literally deluged with their blood..............
.....The old and the young, the common people and the priests, those who surrendered and those who resisted, were equally involved in this horrible and indiscriminate carnage....
The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.
The blood of the sufferers flowed in proportion to the rage of this destructive element; and the number of the slain exceeded all calculation.
The ground could not be seen for the dead bodies, over which the Romans trampled in pursuit of the fugitives ;

Nahum 3:3
Charging cavalry, flashing swords and glittering spears!
Many casualties, piles of dead bodies without number, people stumbling over the corpses--

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The reason it was finally "included" was it's visual descriptions of heaven. The rest of the entire text of canon are used inside the liturgical services. Revelation came too late to be included in the liturgical singing and readings.

Can you imagine the face of the deacon they finally handed it to? "Okay", but where do I put it?

Forgive me...

Revelations 4 literally opens the scene into the throne room and the dealings going on there. Only Hebrews has anything close, yet not as close, of the scene that is behind our earthly scene. That of the invisable reflected to the visable.

 

[mindlight]

I know that we haven't known or come across each other before considering the fact that we just meeting in my search for a new friend. I am Mrs Katty Williams! social,polite and apprehensive, who believes that Friendship is a wonderful world, it might be the most beautiful one on earth.and i will like you and i to be a very good friend and maybe we can talk about religion life and for the purpose God asked me to contact you... I like to worship God with all my heart. When I praise God I feel his presence. The day I received Jesus Christ as my only Savior my life changed. I have had a past life so wrong, but now I serve God with love. Now I am the Church's frequently goar, and I take that responsibility very obedience.I like to meet many friends lovers of the things of God and share with them experiences and ideas and work together in the work of God....I have an important message About charity work (FEED THE POOR)which the lord has directed me to do, so you and i would benefit alot from it ..I will want you to get back to me in my private email address here at ( kattty22222i@gmail.com or katty22222i@gmail.com )Or you get back to me with your personal email to contact you ,, GOD BLESS

HI Katty, You have a powerful testimony and it is fantastic to see the ways in which you have battled against all odds these last few months. But I am not here to make friends but rather to speak the word God gives me and to discuss the issues of the age from a Christian perspective. This will be my policy, as it has been the last 14 years on this forum, until God tells me different. I find anonymity is better for honest discussion than having to consider the feelings and sensibilities of people and organisations I know in real life. My friends are in my physical church and in the relationships I have in the real world. I would recommend that you make friends with people in a physical church near you. I appreciate your ministry to the poor and hope that God gives you wisdom and the strength to say no to requests for help when necessary also. May he protect you from those who would deceive you about money and may your physical friends and family remain by your side. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

If Revelation was written to those in the 1st century then John was a false prophet. No two witnesses rose up at this time and performed the signs mentioned for forty-two months. They were not killed left on the street for 3 days to rise and ascend while the whole earth celebrated their deaths. The Euphrates river was not dried up to draw these kingdoms to the battle where the Lord himself slays them with the word of his mouth. If you think about it the fact Jesus said that he was coming soon needs to be reconciled with Peter who by the Holy Spirit said 1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[fn] the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

When the LORD comes as seen in Zech 14 look how God enemies are destroyed.
2 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

Peter is saying about the coming of the LORD that before He comes mockers will come saying all things remain as they have been. This is not applicable in 70AD. The resolution to what Jesus meant when he said soon is when you see these signs he is coming soon the parable of the fig tree is about Israel. Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and so did Daniel in ch 9. God also promised to bring back the nation a second time from all the nations where God scattered Israel. if you read the law and Solomon's prayer dedicating the Temple this idea of God being able to scatter and gather Israel is established. So when you see the fig tree blossom know that this generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled. 1948 Israel is a nation. 1967 they get back Jerusalem. If this is what Jesus was talking about His coming is soon and He is coming quickly when he comes.
In Acts one Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. When the LORD returns he will have all rule and authority in Rev 11 they sing of what this transition will be like
15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms[fn] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,[fn]
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

When the LORD comes he destroys the kings over the earth. We see in Rev ch 20 this from another angle.
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Ask yourself has at any point in the last 2000 years can you say Satan has been bound and that the nations would not be deceived?

We now see the exact stage for a literal fulfillment of Rev as a futurist would see it and many are settled that the current events have no bearing on Biblical prophecy because tradition teaches it is all already accomplished. Did you know that in 2001 a document called the UN earth charter written by Gorbachov was placed in a modern day ark of the covenant and carried with poles going through the loops on the side of it and placed in the UN building. This blasphemous display is declaring that this earth charter is the new commandments from God. The US dollar will collapse soon and the UN is poised to be taking over in a one world government. The central point of Rev is the abomination of desolation which occurs in the Temple where the daily sacrifices are stopped. The Temple Institute has replicated everything necessary to resume the sacrifices not performed since 70AD. Ill leave with Hosea 3.For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

The return of the sacrifice is linked to the return of the kingdom. Remember psalm 110
The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!...
The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!

Read zech 14 and you will see the day the lord returns and is king over all the earth; this is future the 1000 years is literal. The dead will live and reign with Him and he is coming quickly.

 

[Goatee]

If Revelation was written to those in the 1st century then John was a false prophet. No two witnesses rose up at this time and performed the signs mentioned for forty-two months. They were not killed left on the street for 3 days to rise and ascend while the whole earth celebrated their deaths. The Euphrates river was not dried up to draw these kingdoms to the battle where the Lord himself slays them with the word of his mouth. If you think about it the fact Jesus said that he was coming soon needs to be reconciled with Peter who by the Holy Spirit said 1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[fn] the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

When the LORD comes as seen in Zech 14 look how God enemies are destroyed.
2 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

Peter is saying about the coming of the LORD that before He comes mockers will come saying all things remain as they have been. This is not applicable in 70AD. The resolution to what Jesus meant when he said soon is when you see these signs he is coming soon the parable of the fig tree is about Israel. Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and so did Daniel in ch 9. God also promised to bring back the nation a second time from all the nations where God scattered Israel. if you read the law and Solomon's prayer dedicating the Temple this idea of God being able to scatter and gather Israel is established. So when you see the fig tree blossom know that this generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled. 1948 Israel is a nation. 1967 they get back Jerusalem. If this is what Jesus was talking about His coming is soon and He is coming quickly when he comes.
In Acts one Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. When the LORD returns he will have all rule and authority in Rev 11 they sing of what this transition will be like
15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms[fn] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,[fn]
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

When the LORD comes he destroys the kings over the earth. We see in Rev ch 20 this from another angle.
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Ask yourself has at any point in the last 2000 years can you say Satan has been bound and that the nations would not be deceived?

We now see the exact stage for a literal fulfillment of Rev as a futurist would see it and many are settled that the current events have no bearing on Biblical prophecy because tradition teaches it is all already accomplished. Did you know that in 2001 a document called the UN earth charter written by Gorbachov was placed in a modern day ark of the covenant and carried with poles going through the loops on the side of it and placed in the UN building. This blasphemous display is declaring that this earth charter is the new commandments from God. The US dollar will collapse soon and the UN is poised to be taking over in a one world government. The central point of Rev is the abomination of desolation which occurs in the Temple where the daily sacrifices are stopped. The Temple Institute has replicated everything necessary to resume the sacrifices not performed since 70AD. Ill leave with Hosea 3.For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

The return of the sacrifice is linked to the return of the kingdom. Remember psalm 110
The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!...
The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!

Read zech 14 and you will see the day the lord returns and is king over all the earth; this is future the 1000 years is literal. The dead will live and reign with Him and he is coming quickly.

You take Revelation literally. There is more to it than that my dear friend!

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

You take Revelation literally. There is more to it than that my dear friend!

I do take it literally because if you take the rest of the prophecy of the 2nd coming in the OT a literal view of Revelations dovetails into it without having to impose any other interpretation. If you think about the book of Zechariah he was literal when talking about Messiah coming in on the foal of a donkey and the Messiah being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver and the money being thrown to the potter. It would seem that Zech 14 description of the 2nd coming of Jesus being described at a day when the LORD comes with his saints and the landscape of Jerusalem is changed with the MT of Olives splitting in two and a new river being formed that flows year round would also be literal. In Zech he says in that day the LORD will be king over all the earth and it shows a continuation of live on earth as from that point on the nations are required to keep the feast of tabernacle. You see in this chapter Jerusalem being overrun and on a night when it is light out the LORD melts these enemies. These passages are all talking about the same events. It is future I can integrate hundreds of prophecy into this literal view and they line up without any manipulation.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I do take it literally because if you take the rest of the prophecy of the 2nd coming in the OT a literal view of Revelations dovetails into it without having to impose any other interpretation. If you think about the book of Zechariah he was literal when talking about Messiah coming in on the foal of a donkey and the Messiah being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver and the money being thrown to the potter. It would seem that Zech 14 description of the 2nd coming of Jesus being described at a day when the LORD comes with his saints and the landscape of Jerusalem is changed with the MT of Olives splitting in two and a new river being formed that flows year round would also be literal. In Zech he says in that day the LORD will be king over all the earth and it shows a continuation of live on earth as from that point on the nations are required to keep the feast of tabernacle. You see in this chapter Jerusalem being overrun and on a night when it is light out the LORD melts these enemies. These passages are all talking about the same events. It is future I can integrate hundreds of prophecy into this literal view and they line up without any manipulation.

Zec 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Playing with nuclear things? Hmmm?

Forgive me...

 

[JackRT]

The Revelation of John has had a long and chequered history. The Church long resisted including it in the canon. At one point in a council of bishops over half abstained from the vote and it was accepted by one vote. In other words less than one quarter of the bishops cared enough for it to vote for its inclusion. Other Christian leaders including Martin Luther have at one time or another attempted to dump it. even today one scholar Earl Doherty has written --- "Despite the apologetic efforts of those seeking to rehabilitate this document for the modern mind, it is difficult to see Revelation as anything more than a paroxysm of hate created by a mind bordering on the psychotic. The early church long resisted placing it in the developing canon of inspired writings. John the prophet has cast his spiritual Christ in his own joyless and vengeful image. The voice of this Messiah is his own, ready to punish for every slight, every rejection the prophet has suffered in his missionary work."

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

The Revelation of John has had a long and chequered history. The Church long resisted including it in the canon. At one point in a council of bishops over half abstained from the vote and it was accepted by one vote. In other words less than one quarter of the bishops cared enough for it to vote for its inclusion. Other Christian leaders including Martin Luther have at one time or another attempted to dump it. even today one scholar Earl Doherty has written --- "Despite the apologetic efforts of those seeking to rehabilitate this document for the modern mind, it is difficult to see Revelation as anything more than a paroxysm of hate created by a mind bordering on the psychotic. The early church long resisted placing it in the developing canon of inspired writings. John the prophet has cast his spiritual Christ in his own joyless and vengeful image. The voice of this Messiah is his own, ready to punish for every slight, every rejection the prophet has suffered in his missionary work."

Hi the churches history is one that drifts away and back to the scriptures as departing from them is not good. By taking a literal view of Revelation if the things in it fail to occur than it can be demonstrated that view would be in error. So futurist would need to see things like Israel become a nation at a time of great moral decay and the rise of global government at the same time a merger of the religions of the world. The UN is positioned to be just such a world government and the ecumencial movement is trying to merge the worlds religions too. Israel Is a nation and all preparation for the return of the daily sacrifices are also made. There would also need to be a move to a mark to buy and sell and also the technology would have to be capable of killing off all life on earth if the LORD did not shorten those days. Im just saying that all of these factors lining up is a strong case to be made that this is still future.

The teaching of replacement or covenant theology has in many ways blinded the eyes of those who see Israel as not having a prophetic destiny. The kingdom of Christ on earth is also taught as a spiritual kingdom and not a future reality. If one looks at scripture with this lens you need not allegorize any of the scriptures you can just believe them. The odds of all these scenarios specific to futurist believe coming to pass is astronomical and yet they are lined up just so.

 

[toLiJC]

This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

one thing is certain, namely that John the Apostle was sent to exile in patmos against his will

Blessings

 

[Revealing Times]

Hi the churches history is one that drifts away and back to the scriptures as departing from them is not good. By taking a literal view of Revelation if the things in it fail to occur than it can be demonstrated that view would be in error. So futurist would need to see things like Israel become a nation at a time of great moral decay and the rise of global government at the same time a merger of the religions of the world. The UN is positioned to be just such a world government and the ecumencial movement is trying to merge the worlds religions too. Israel Is a nation and all preparation for the return of the daily sacrifices are also made. There would also need to be a move to a mark to buy and sell and also the technology would have to be capable of killing off all life on earth if the LORD did not shorten those days. Im just saying that all of these factors lining up is a strong case to be made that this is still future.

The teaching of replacement or covenant theology has in many ways blinded the eyes of those who see Israel as not having a prophetic destiny. The kingdom of Christ on earth is also taught as a spiritual kingdom and not a future reality. If one looks at scripture with this lens you need not allegorize any of the scriptures you can just believe them. The odds of all these scenarios specific to futurist believe coming to pass is astronomical and yet they are lined up just so.

Revelation is easy for me to understand. What I find is people who don't seem to get it want to deemphasize its importance, even though Jesus told us it was VERY IMPORTANT, or they want to change it to a time period that has nothing to do with it.

It takes effort, but it is very key in us understanding the rest of the bible. Everything in the bible dovetails together, and you can not have a finished product without the the table top or legs. God is all powerful, He got the exact books He wanted to into the Holy Bible.

Zechariah 14:1-2 is the Six Seals portion of Jerusalem being Conquered in Rev. ch. 6. Zechariah 14:3 on is the Vials of God and God destroying the Nations that come against Him at Armageddon.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Revelation is easy for me to understand.

Problem solved then... everybody follow "Revealing Times".

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Zec 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Playing with nuclear things? Hmmm?
Forgive me...

Or a furnace?
Your post reminded me of this passage:

Ezekiel 22:
17 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 “Son of adam! the house of Israel has become dross to Me; all of them are bronze and tin and iron and lead in the furnace; they are the dross of silver.
19 “Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, ‘Because all of you have become dross, therefore, behold! I am going to gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 ‘As they gather silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin into the furnace to blow fire on it in order to melt it, so I will gather you in My anger and in My wrath and I will lay you there and melt you.
21 ‘I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you will be melted in the midst of it. 22 ‘As silver is melted in the furnace, so you will be melted in the midst of it; and you will know that I, the LORD, have poured out My wrath on you.’”

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

This is what was happening even before Titus arrived:

The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts.......... Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.
At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the City. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:..................

And I believe this is how God gathered the Jews together to essential melt them with fire was during the Passover as shown in Ezekiel 22.
Jerusalem literally became "lake of fire"

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21........

A Roman soldier, urged, as he declared, by a divine impulse, regardless of the command of Titus climbed on the shoulders of another, and threw a flaming brand into the golden window of the Temple, which instantly set the building on fire. The Jews, anxious above all things to save that sacred edifice, in which they superstitiously trusted for security , with a dreadful outcry, rushed in to extinguish the flames.
Titus also, being extinguish the conflagration, hastened to the spot in his chariot, attended by his principal officers and legions; but in vain he waved his hand and raised his voice, commanding his soldiers to extinguish the fire ; so great was the uproar and confusion, that no attention was paid even to him. The Romans, wilfully deaf instead of extinguishing the flames, spread them wider and wider.......

.......Titus and his officers were now compelled to retire, and none remained to check the fury of the soldiers or the flames. ["fury":Revelation 15:1]
The Romans, exasperated to the highest pitch against the Jews, seized every person whom they could find, and, without the least regard to sex, age or quality, first plundered and then slew them. The old and the young, the common people and the priests, those who surrendered and those who resisted, were equally involved in this horrible and indiscriminate carnage. Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire...... the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints...................

Mal 4:1
(3:19) "For indeed the day is coming, burning like a furnace, and all the arrogant evildoers will be chaff. The coming day will burn them up," says the LORD who rules over all. "It will not leave even a root or branch.

Reve 15:1
And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers, having the seven last stripes/blows,
that in them is finished the fury/qumoV <2372> of GOD..............

 

[Root of Jesse]

This will not apply to everyone, of course, but I find people with confirmation biases make bad testimonials/judgments. I would say that most who believe John wrote Revelation before AD 70 think so because they believe AD 70 fulfilled much of Revelation, so I don't put a whole lot of stock into those beliefs because they clearly have a conflict of interest.

Jesus says no one knows the hour nor the day but the Father, so Jesus' soon to come is true, the word is relative, to God there is no time, to Jesus Soon is when the Father tells him to come, Jesus told parables to keep the world from knowing what his followers knew. Jesus wanted the Church to be ready, thus he told then to always be ready, live in the light, not in the dark, thus I will come as a thief, when they are asleep, but you should be awake (expectant).

Revelation was written unto the Asia Minor Churches, the date has been established by tradition as mid 90's. I will go with the tradition of the Churches.

Well tradition can be right and tradition can be wrong. There is a lot of disagreement. But the first few chapters show immanence of Jesus' coming. The rest of Revelation provides proof. You know, much of Revelation is about the Mass.