When Should We End The Sale of Gas Vehicles, and coal power plants?

[stevil]

When Should We End The Sale of Gas Vehicles, and coal power plants? Should w stop using fossil oil for home heating?

As soon as possible!

Once there are viable alternatives

 

[FireDragon76]

Because of the US bias against nuclear production, building natural gas plants will be the bridge for a couple of decades. And when we stop building them in say 2040 or so, they will continue to operation for a couple of more. To be clear, natural gas is better then using coal for power production or gasoline for vehicles.

We are probably going to eventually have nuclear power again at the forefront, particularly if the Gates Foundation is successful in their plans for gallium-cooled reactors.

I very much doubt a fully renewable economy can work within this century.

 

[Vylo]

European countries are building wind turbines. Thes facilities are 600 MW and 659 MW.

From wiki

Presently, the Fântânele-Cogealac wind farm in Romania is Europe's largest onshore wind farm, comprising of 240 2.5 megawatt turbines. In comparison, the largest offshore wind farm in Europe, and the world, is the Walney Extension in the United Kingdom. It has a capacity of 659 megawatts and more than 200 turbines.Jun 10, 2020
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In the US more comes from renewables than from gas. The short-tern goal will be to remove coal from the mix, as well as to move toward no more production of gasoline cars
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Renewables Set to Overtake Natural Gas in US Power Mix, EIA Says | Greentech Media
============

As is the US
New electric generating capacity in 2020 will come primarily from wind and solar - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

What you posted is backing what I said.

240 wind turbines barely breaking half of what I've seen a single fuel based turbine perform.

You are also incorrect on more coming from renewables than gas, If you read your link, that was their prediction by 2050, nearly 30 years from now. That does not take into account the material shortages I noted. Currently natural gas supplies nearly 3 times all renewables combined, nearly 10 times what all solar and wind power combined produce. For solar and wind to produce all our current power needs, we would require them to expand 25 fold. There simply aren't the materials required to even approach that. We are talking manyfold increases to mining operations, and massive price increases to the rarer materials used.

U.S. energy facts explained - consumption and production - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

We Might Not Have Enough Materials for All the Solar Panels and Wind Turbines We Need

 

[Zergling Rush]

Not universal enough. My favorite campsite is out of the range of an electric car, and I don't foresee anyone building a charging station out in the middle of nowhere (I also don't want to ride a one-way trip in the hope that there might be a working charging station).

In which case either your new electric car will have more than enough range by then, or you'll buy a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle and fill it up just like you do now with petrol. I mean, they're already on sale, so again, by 2040 the power, efficiency and range will be much better.

All-New Mirai 2021 | Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle | Toyota AU

View attachment 294135

 

[Desk trauma]

Nuclear power plants are not difficult to build.

They are in the US as the VS Summer and Vogtle projects have demonstrated recently and the wave of nuclear construction some decades ago did prior.

What is required is for the government and its regulators to approve nuclear plants, and to stop subsidizing and preferring fossil fuel plants.

Fossil fuel plants, read natural gas as thats all thats being built, are preferred because they are cheaper and can actually come online within sight of schedule. If we are lucky the living breathing example of the sunk cost fallacy that is the Vogtle project will be finished in a year or two which mean its only 6-7 years behind schedule and four times more expensive that it was supposed to be.

 

[MIDutch]

When Should We End The Sale of Gas Vehicles, and coal power plants?

Not sure about gas vehicles, but economics has been closing coal fired power plants here in the US for decades (despite trump's obviously false promises to bring back the coal jobs).

 

[MIDutch]

The good news is that there are companies throughout the world working on this.

Because the rest of the world isn't hamstrung by Republican obstructionism.

 

[durangodawood]

Not universal enough. My favorite campsite is out of the range of an electric car, and I don't foresee anyone building a charging station out in the middle of nowhere (I also don't want to ride a one-way trip in the hope that there might be a working charging station).

I wonder about this too, as there's a lot of remote dirt roads near where I live, which I have enjoyed exploring.

 

[hislegacy]

Remember also that Gasoline is not the only thing produced from crude oil production. To eleiminate oil production you would also have to find viable alternatives to:

 

[durangodawood]

Remember also that Gasoline is not the only thing produced from crude oil production. To eleiminate oil production you would also have to find viable alternatives to:...

Perhaps thats why the OP only dealt with fossil fuel replacements that are proven viable, at least in theory.

And if we cant come up with an alternative to crude oil components in toothpaste, we're in trouble.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Not universal enough. My favorite campsite is out of the range of an electric car, and I don't foresee anyone building a charging station out in the middle of nowhere (I also don't want to ride a one-way trip in the hope that there might be a working charging station).

IMHO, we need to consider getting the "right" car for our needs. My own educated guess is that gasoline cars or long-range hybrids will be available for the people that need them. What about renting a truck for a week when you do go out to the hinterlands? Unless you use it for work, do you really need to drop $60K for a vehicle that you only really require 7 days a year? Get a decent vehicle for your daily drives, and use the money you save for those special occasions.

 

[Speedwell]

Remember also that Gasoline is not the only thing produced from crude oil production. To eleiminate oil production you would also have to find viable alternatives to:

Good point. Oil is a valuable and non-renewable raw material. We shouldn't just be burning it to run cars around.

 

[durangodawood]

"Shag Rugs"

People dont think enough about how awful life was before we had shag rugs.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Remember also that Gasoline is not the only thing produced from crude oil production. To eleiminate oil production you would also have to find viable alternatives to:

Cassettes? Well crap, there goes my favorite music from the 80s! Oh wait, those were all transferred to MP3s. I havent had a cassette in ten years. BTW, this chart is useless on so many levels. My Chemical Engineering days are long gone, but I still remember a few things. There are many ways to create long polymer chains from other substances.

Shell began using natural gas to create motor oil in the 1970s
Turning Natural Gas Into Oil

Although crude oil is a source of raw material (feedstock) for making plastics, it is not the major source of feedstock for plastics production in the United States. Plastics are produced from natural gas, feedstocks derived from natural gas processing, and feedstocks derived from crude oil refining.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA).

 

[Albion]

When Should We End The Sale of Gas Vehicles, and coal power plants? Should w stop using fossil oil for home heating?
===================
Now that the Democrats are in control, let's consider climate control issues.

FIRST STEPS
Stop spending money on new oil pipelines. DONE
Stop drilling for oil on public lands. DONE
Mandate electric vehicles for the government IN PROCESS
========================
STOP THE SALE OF GASOLINE CARS
Norway has set the date of 2025. The crazy Brits have set the date at 2030. Dems will introduce a bill through the Reconciliation process to implement a huge move from gas to domestically produced electric vehicles.

NO MORE COAL PLANTS
The crazy Brits often go weeks with no power from coal plants. The last 3 coal plants will come offline by 2025.

NO MORE FOSSIL FUEL FOR RESIDENTIAL HEATING
The crazy Brits will stop using fossil fuel for residential heating by 2023.

BTW
New solar plants and new wind plants produce electricity at less cost than fossil fuels.

"We" might as well mandate that only cars that run on air should be built after 2030. There is no possibility of the changes you list here coming to pass in the time period referred to.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

"Shag Rugs"

People dont think enough about how awful life was before we had shag rugs.

Especially in yellow, orange and avocado colors. I might have to go look for a good polyester leisure suit.

 

[Desk trauma]

Remember also that Gasoline is not the only thing produced from crude oil production. To eleiminate oil production...

Hello straw man.

Imagine how much cheaper those things will become as demand for oil as a vehicle fuel drops off.

 

[hislegacy]

Perhaps thats why the OP only dealt with fossil fuel replacements that are proven viable, at least in theory.

Are you willing to protect our economy, employment and security to theory?

While fossil fuel replacements are in theory (you can be proven in theory - that is an oxymoron), the economy of the US is currently attached to fossil fuels (including jets, trains, over the road trucking and all shipping vessels). The simple reality is you just cannot shut it off with out a proven, in reality, replacement up an running.

I'm all for phasing out gas burning vehicles. But you cannot logically stop the production of them without viable replacements that are at sufficient supply and ability to be charged. Can we just stay with the reality of what is viable today if we are going to make changes today?

 

[Desk trauma]

Can we just stay with the reality of what is viable today if we are going to make changes today?

Let's stay with the reality of what is actually being done here in the US as this is the US political forum.

Right now there is no cut off date on use of internal combustion engines in vehicles nor for oil production here and neither is on the horizon hence no need to get knotted up in fear for our economy on that point.

Staying again with reality what we do have is a push from the Biden administration to replace the vehicles used by the federal government with electric vehicles. This could help push us towards them becoming more standard as it would require more be made and the infrastructure to support them, the real weak link in the EV transition, could become more widely available.

Not near as sexy as the oil taps being slammed shut and a EV cultural revolution but welcome back to boring politics.

 

[hislegacy]

Let's stay with the reality of what is actually being done here in the US as this is the US political forum.

Right now there is no cut off date on use of internal combustion engines in vehicles nor for oil production here and neither is on the horizon hence no need to get knotted up in fear for our economy on that point.

Within that reality is the Imperial Order that ended several thousand good paying jobs on the pipeline, along with all the jobs that supported the work. Combined with another Imperial Order that ended leases on Federal Lands for oil production and the tens of thousands of jobs that ended. That is happening right now!

The reply from US leadership is that they can find jobs making solar panels - the problem is they are out of work today and panel production will not be at that level for several years.

So what do they do?