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Featured When religions oppress others

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by timothyu, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Depends which party is in power.
     
  2. SoldierOfTheKing

    SoldierOfTheKing Christian Spenglerian

    +1,992
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    What has gotten the JW's in trouble in Russia is first their harsh criticism of the Russian Orthodox church, and second their calling on Russian men to avoid military service. Much the same thing that has got them in trouble elsewhere.

    Their US origins and their aggressive proselytizing also raise alarm bells. Russia has had problems with foreign funded NGOs interfering in their internal affairs.
     
  3. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    What they say may be much the same but what they do is very different. Jehovah's witnesses doi not have political power and cannot use the engines of state to oppress their opponents.

    The best way to deal with Jehovah's witnesses is to expose their actual practises, especially with regard to shunning and family break up in relation to shunning. A public information campaign would be far more effective then direct persecution. Just tell the truth about what they do and fail to do and that will help inoculate many of the public to resist their enticements to join.
     
  4. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    If we look to Christian history, the Church has always used the power of the State to prohibit and check heresy. The "persecution" the Church has been accused of in the past is an example. That people were executed for heresy, often in the most brutal ways, was not an invention of Christianity, but was merely the routine enforcing of blasphemy laws. Blasphemy and heresy were felonies and those convicted of it were treated as any other felon, as all felonies carried the death penalty.

    None of that should come as any surprise whatever to anyone who has ever read the bible, as the bible says of Jesus:

    [​IMG]Rev 12:5 - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron...

    And of those such as Patriarch Kiril:

    [​IMG]Rev 2:26 - And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    [​IMG]Rev 2:27 - And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    We now come to true heart of the matter, that being the good that Christianity has brought to the world, and the unsurprising belief of Christianity that those who fall away, fail away into eternal damnation. How should the Church have dealt with those who would end the good of Christianity or cause a Christian to fall away? And now, how should Patriarch Kiril deal with those same people today? With the stakes being that high, any Shepherd of God's sheep would bring whatever power they could possibly bring to prevent it.
     
  5. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    While I agree with you that this is the better way (and this has been the Coptic Orthodox Church's approach to dealing with them in Egypt, where HH Pope Shenouda III gave several talks against them and wrote against them after they began to be noticed by Coptic people; they had been banned by the secular government of Nasser in 1960), how would it also not meet the same charges of government collusion if the government were seen to be behind and/or cooperating with the Church in disseminating this information, as it surely would?
     
  6. SaintCody777

    SaintCody777 A wise Berean

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    Jehovah's Witnesses are totally harmless to the well being and so are the members the Westboro Baptist Church, which is labeled as a hate group on the SPLC hatelist. The reason why both JWs and the WBC are under their respective nations' government, cult, or hate group watch dogs is because of their unusual as extreme theologies, teachings, and practices. Both groups use Scripture to use these facts as "proof" that they are Jesus' true church or assemblies are at obviously at odds with the world and that they are hated by the world.
     
  7. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

    +9,032
    United States
    Lutheran
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    Russia is not exactly friendly to non-Orthodox Christians. I watched a documentary some time ago about Lutherans in Russia. It's a very difficult situation, because Russia is currently enthralled with ethno-nationalism, and the idea of German-Russians with a Protestant faith goes against that.
     
  8. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I'm well aware of that. The Volga Germans were among those people exiled by Stalin to Kazakhstan, first in 1936 and again in 1941. The first exile was due to the policy of collectivization of farming, and the second was due to suspicions that they might collaborate with the German Nazi forces that invaded Russia in that year. Neither had anything to do with their faith. The fact that many went back to Russia after the fall of the USSR should be instructive, though I don't doubt that they probably do face some discrimination there today, because as you say ethnic nationalism is strong in Russia. The native peoples of Siberia like the Chulym and others likewise do, while often being Russian Orthodox themselves. So in the modern context it's not really about faith, either, though no doubt most Russian Orthodox would rather everyone in their country be Russian Orthodox, in the same sense that I would rather everyone be Orthodox than whatever it is they are instead, and most Muslims would rather everyone be Muslim, and most atheists would rather everyone be atheist, etc. That's a part of being human, not something to shame a particular people for thinking as though they're unique in that.
     
  9. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    But when state power is used short of genocide it fails. The pagan Romans tried it against Christians and look what happened. The crusaders tried it against Muslims and see what happened. The inquisition tried it against Jews and Muslims in Spain and look at what happened. None of those efforts was a success.
     
  10. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    It probably would be seen as state sponsored anti-Jehovah's-witnesses information or propaganda if the state funded it or produced it. But if what was presented is true then it would be educational just like teaching in the schools is educational despite being funded by government and produced by government. It is far better to inform than it is to persecute.
     
  11. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    So in other words people would still complain that this is the state and the Church colluding to oppress a minority.

    So if the outcome is the same, but in one you get the cult that you don't want in your country out of it, and in the other they are allowed to proliferate, why would you not choose the first option, if you're in the Russian government or the Russian Orthodox Church?

    Sounds like they're damned if they do, and they're damned if they don't.
     
  12. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Jehovah's witnesses are harmless as long as members do not question official teaching. The moment that they do they become "apostate" and will be shunned. There is a film out of the UK called Apostate, made in 2107, about what happens with shunning. The film also touches on what happens what one of Jehovah's witnesses in need of a blood transfusion refuses it on religious grounds. For such people they are not harmless and shunning is a very cruel form of "restorative punishment".
     
  13. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    I don't see how the church would be involved in a government information campaign.
     
  14. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Neither do I, just like I don't see how the Church would necessarily be involved in kicking them out now (it may or may not, but my point is that Church-State collusion is assumed no matter what). What matters in things like this is perception, much more than reality.
     
  15. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Would that be an extremist view of this? Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Although they do it, how can church and state justify aligning themselves, when one represents the will and world of man and the other is supposed to represent the will and Kingdom of God. Two opposing ideologies. Which one no longer put the will of God first and remained loving all as self?
     
  17. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    It is not extreme but it is bad. Shunning family members simply because they question Watchtower teaching is bad.
     
  18. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    Oh my brother ..How should he deal with what ? His own sin before God ???? If he has the power of the Holy Ghost as Peter did with Ananias and Sapheira , he can say a word and the Holy Ghost may drop them dead . Or he may blind them for a season as Paul did ...But if he is just another very devout and zealous religious leader believing that his version of orthodoxy is the same as the first century church but he himself lacks the power , he should repent ...for he is a great sinner and should show the same mercy that he hopes of God .
    I can not actually believe you advocate physical punishment from the hands of the state for differences in religious belief . It is like J Calvin having Severnus burnt at the stake ....What part of " Wise as serpents and HARMLESS as doves " have we failed to understand over the last 200 years . Oh my !
    Let him who is sinless cast the first stone ....
     
  19. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Early followers of Jesus were thus separated, not just by distance but by the Kingdom.
     
  20. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Did the early followers of Christ confiscate property, arrest members, imprison them, outlaw religions? That is what is happening in Russia with respect to Jehovah's witnesses. Far better to educate the populace to be aware of the policies of Jehovah's witnesses with regard to shunning and demands of absolute obedience to the dictates of the organisation rather than arrest, imprison, and confiscate property.
     
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