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Featured When religions oppress others

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by timothyu, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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  3. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    Yeah I read up on Jehovah Witness practices and it would appear they create their own government within the country. I wouldn't put them on par with terrorists though.
     
  4. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    I neither defend or condemn them but that is what the Way also did in the beginning. They gave back to Caesar that which Caesar owned/created and demanded back of them, but rebelled against no one and lived subject to the governance of God and not of man. The Way may have been seen by some, especially the Jewish priests, as terrorist but most saw them as a cult and called them haters of man (for hating the ways and ideals of mankind).

    One wound think capitalistic countries would be more inclined to call them terrorists for their serving others free of charge ways. That is the partial basis of Russian ideology so the terrorist claim must lie squarely on the Russian state church jealous of competition i would think or does the statement mean something else?

    Edit: statement 'Orthodox scholars have cast them as a dangerous foreign sect that erodes state institutions and traditional values'
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  5. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I don't think it's very fair for an outsider to pretend that they are the Amazing Kreskin, able to see into the 'mind' of the Russian Orthodox Church and determine what it is thinking and what its motivations are.

    I would note that they're not closing down or converting Armenian Apostolic Church buildings in Russia (anymore), even though the Armenian Apostolic Church a much more obvious target of attack if it were really as simple as being jealous of competition, since the Armenians are already neighbors of the Russians, and hence don't really need to send missionaries as cults like the JWs do. So I don't think that charge against the Russian Orthodox Church has any basis in reality.
     
  6. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. What then do you think the terrorism accusation is built upon?
     
  7. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Is there a give and take relationship between church and state in Russia as in Constantine's day?
     
  8. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    You mean Russia should not restrict cults that are famous for shunning people, being anarchists and letting their children die because of misunderstandings of blood transfusion? I am happy to see fellow Trinitarians preferring a non-Trinitarian cult.
     
  9. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I neither know nor no care. I'm not a lawyer, and that's for Russia to decide in accordance with its laws. I'm not one of those anti-Russian people who thinks that Russia is terrible and nefarious.

    I wouldn't have banned the JWs, but I'm a comfy westerner living my western life, and Russia is not America or Britain or wherever else. I spent 6-7 years learning the Russian language in my early 20s from Russian educators in two different college settings (one of whom went on to be the chair of the Russian department at Stanford), so I've spent a lot of time around Russian people. They tend to have a very different mindset when it comes to this sort of thing. Should they have to change the way their entire society has functioned for centuries for the sake of whatever cult comes in for America in the name of uniquely American freedoms, or should the cult, if it wants to operate in Russian territory, change the things about its practices and beliefs that make Russian authorities label it so? Honest question here. When does "When in Rome" suddenly not apply because it hurts our western freedom-feelings?
     
  10. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Be it Russia (a large log in the eye) or any other nation making these self judgements regarding religion, the same will apply to them by God. But you make a valid point regarding the introduction of the topic.
     
  11. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    No more than the US wants Muslims (or JW's) doing the same. But the point is all are expected to change their ways to conform to the Kingdom of God. So far none do as nations and only a minority oif individuals even within Christianity find the way past the traditional ways of mankind..
     
  12. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Alright, this is more cosmic, semi-gnostic talk from you. I highly doubt any Russian or any JW for that matter would accept this sort of thing, as though the better alternative is to leave their organizations and follow...what? Your idea of what is supposed to be?

    You can't overturn what has been established because you say you're following the true way and no one (or hardly anyone) else is; it just comes across as spiritual delusion/prelest. Everyone else can read the Bible, too, and when they do so with the fathers, they don't see this anti-Church, anti-religion nonsense. No doubt they would say Хватит. Уходите прочь. (And that is what they said to the JWs.)
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    I most certainly can if what is established is a religion that is created by man which seeks to justify it's own kingdom rather than the Kingdom of God. Just because something has been around for 1700 years does not make it Adversary proof. It clearly showed it accepted what Jesus refused when the Tempter offered Him the world. It rejoined the world of man to become a world power itself working with nations and as a nation itself. So anyone of the Kingdom would find it hard to be a part of an opposing fallen faction. Yet it has always housed people of both the Kingdom and the opposing world of man.

    Who are these religions or factions of religions who demand loyalty or fight with others in the same way as secular government of man? Certainly not what Jesus taught.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  14. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    That's your belief, I suppose. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just going to say that it seems that your belief about church(es) is informing a reaction to this news (with 'Christians' in scare quotes like that, and saying that they will like this action) that is insulting to the Christian believers of Russia and their traditional Russian Orthodox Church, and that is not right even if you do not agree with it for theological, ecclesiological, or any other reasons, just as it is not right that you apparently implicate all Christians in it by saying that we will like the JW being banned.

    I don't like it, but I see the reason for it because, again, what is the alternative? That so long as someone says this is their religious belief, they can do whatever they want? Not even western countries work like that. They all put some constraints on the practice of religion within their borders in accordance with their laws. Why is Russia so much worse than anywhere else just because they say no to JWs, if the standard ought to be "This person's religion is accepted elsewhere" or whatever the standard is?

    I'm no fan of governments kicking religious minorities out of places where they live just because they can and it appeases the majority, believe me (*cough* Egypt *cough*). I just also recognize that in reality it is better to support the Church than to support that which undermines it in the name of 'freedom' for a cult that would absolutely destroy everything that Russia (or wherever) has built up in praise of God for over a thousand years, because to the cult it's only so much paganism and superstition or something. So in this conflict, I would take the side of Russia even if I personally would let the cult in, perhaps in some very controlled conditions (e.g., the population exchanges that allow the Azeris to have enclaves in Armenia and hence practice Islam in this overwhelmingly Christian country also provide room for the Armenian-populated breakaway republic of Artsakh/Nagorno-Karabakh to exist after a very bloody conflict between the Armenians in Karabakh and the Azeris from 1988 to 1994).
     
  15. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Someday it will be Christians in the same spot as the JW's.
     
  16. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    It already is. Again, Egypt, Iraq, post-war Syria, Libya, northern Nigeria, parts of India, Saudi Arabia, etc.
     
  17. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    You forgot the supposed Christian nations also.
     
  18. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Christians are not generally persecuted in Christian-majority nations, with the exception of Eritrea (they illegally deposed the national Church's patriarch and installed a government puppet, but I can't say anything about what is put upon the average Christian of that country, since I don't know anyone who actually lives there).

    JWism is not a form of Christianity.
     
  19. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Christians are persecuted by the secular world no matter where you go these days. It is not a matter of religious conflict. Alot has changed in 50 yrs.
     
  20. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Yes, social changes are causing persecution of Christians in a lot of Western nations. I thought you were talking about government persecution/exclusion/banning, as per the OP. Sorry for misunderstanding.
     
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