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When nothing seems enough... do I give up?

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razzelflabben

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So here I am... I feel like I've been broken, but it doesn't seem to have helped at all. I don't feel like I've been brought back, I tried to get myself brought back, with no success.
first let me offer this to you...God isn't about feelings per sae...Love isn't an emotion, it isn't an action, it transends both. From what I read in your post, you rely much on emtions and not enough on what you know in your heart (or I assume you know in your heart that God is alive and well and real)
So what now? When nothing seems enough, do I give up? Do I continue pretending to be something I am not?
First off, stop pretending, pretending is a form of lieing. Be honest and open not only with others but with yourself and God. Seems like maybe your just now getting around to being honest with yourself.
Do I endlessly wait more years for something I've never had, and have no current hope to have?
what do you want? What is it you seek?
Do I continue to believe on faith the things that have never seemingly been true for me? Where is the peace of God that surpasses all understanding?
now the really tough questions...the peace that surpasses all understanding is in the Holy Spirit and is revealed to you as you learn to yield yourself over to that Spirit, learning to trust because you first believe. Lots of people go through the motions and all the forumlas looking for the God they pretend to love, but never once, do they take the time to believe, really believe that God is God, much less that He really exists.

Look at your heart...you don't have to answer this question here, that is up to you, but in your heart, who is God? Is He what you believe because you don't know what else to believe? Have you ever had a glimpse of a Holy God, the kind of Holy where all there is for you to do is kneel before Him in awe? Do you really believe such a being exists?
Where is the voice of my Shepherd?
seems to me you hear that voice, or you wouldn't be here looking for Him wherever you can find HIm. (more on that in a moment)
Where is the mother hen to wrap me in her wings? Where is the Father to love me and care for me, to guide me and lift me up? Where is the Holy Spirit inside me to empower me?
These are questions only you can answer, but you won't find the answers till you are brutally honest with yourself and with God.
Now I'm just living my life, unable to tell my wife about the extent of my feelings. I'm living honestly, and when I stumble, I don't feel so bad about myself. I don't judge my actions all the time, and the surrounding judgment from others seems to fade slowly and surely. I feel free, and I start to feel like I can be happy. Am I being seduced by the cares of this world? Or am I being freed from the chains that I brought upon myself?
that depends on where the comfort is coming from...consider this, the comfort the world gives is temporary, but there none the less...whose comfort are you seeking...we have a friend who is struggling with wanting to make a living in full time ministry, and yet, it is not the world that gives us our reward for serving God, but rather God who rewards us. If you seek the world for your heavenly reward, you will miss the God whose love for you is eternal and pure and undefiled and unconditional.
Once upon a time I felt freed by God's truths. But that is the very thing that came to feel like my prison. And now escaping is the only thing that seems to bring me light and grant me peace. Why do I feel so peaceful doing something that should be so wrong?
many people and it sounds like you fell into this as well, see God as the other gods of our world, a being whom we must appease with rules and regulations. That isn't the God of the bible. Throw out the do's and don'ts that you have been taught, the ones you have grown to believe and seek what pleases God...hint: what pleases God is a heart that believes, a heart that is willing to learn and hold the wonders of Him inside. God isn't about the do's and don'ts of religion, don't confuse the two.
When nothing seems enough, what do I do? What else is there to do now but to give up? The years of trying have left me worse off, the years of praying for an answer have left me without a hope. If this God that we profess exists as he says he does, shouldn't he be here by now? Is he leaving me to wallow in my own self-loathing and emptiness? Why would he do such a thing, and for what purpose?
you just answered your own question...God fills us when we stop trying to fill ourselves. When we stop trying to do it all, He has room to do it in us and for us. What did Paul learn? It is in his, Paul's weakness that God became strong. When we give up trying to do it, trying to be this or that for God, it is then, that God can be the power within us. You don't have to do it, you need to allow God to do it in you and for you.

Look at it this way, you have been wounded on the battle field, you fought hard, but you are loosing the battle. Along comes the cavalry, to help you out, to fight along side you, but your pride sends them off, because you have been convinced that it is your battle to fight, and so you must fight and win or loose. Don't send the cavalry away, God is your cavalry, He is your support, but you can't send Him away so you can continue to fight alone, at least not if you want to win.
I'm so open and willing to be carried back to the sheepfold, but I'm still lost out in the rocks somewhere, and I feel all the happier for it.
Seldom do we know the danger we are really in when on an adventure. Try staying put and letting the shephard find you rather than running around looking for Him...just some thoughts for what they are worth.
 
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razzelflabben

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I have to be honest in saying that I'm moved by the awesome responses, but this is all stuff I have heard many times, and tried to "let" happen. Even though I use the term "I" a lot, I'm not sure how else to phrase it.

I read the verses and I believe that I believed them and "let" them have their effect, but in the end, it didn't seem to "work out." It's hard to explain. I don't have the things that the Bible says I should, despite everything I did and didn't do.

Shouldn't God be doing what he said he would, and not waiting for me to fulfill some requirement? If I wasn't really saved and really believing those truths, I have no idea what to do to qualify as "really doing it."

Where do I go from here? What do I do, specifically? I can't think of something I haven't already done.
let go, stop striving, and let God do it in you and through you. Believe in God and trust that God to be exactly what you need, then step back and watch Him work. To many times we go through the motions trying to be the people God wants us to be instead of letting go and letting God make us the people He wants us to be.
 
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razzelflabben

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a quick word about church...without a lot of details, the church today is seldom acting like the body that believes and lives in the power and grace of the Holy Spirit. If you are looking to the church to see who God is, or even what He looks like, I am afraid that more times than not, you will be disappointed. when you do happen upon that church, hold them dear and close, encouraging and uplifting them...But even taking it one step further don't confuse God's love with the things that this world can offer. For example Love is kind but not all kindness is love. Be careful not to confuse the two, confusing them can cause a great deal of hurt.
 
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I have to be honest in saying that I'm moved by the awesome responses, but this is all stuff I have heard many times, and tried to "let" happen. Even though I use the term "I" a lot, I'm not sure how else to phrase it.

I read the verses and I believe that I believed them and "let" them have their effect, but in the end, it didn't seem to "work out." It's hard to explain. I don't have the things that the Bible says I should, despite everything I did and didn't do.

Shouldn't God be doing what he said he would, and not waiting for me to fulfill some requirement? If I wasn't really saved and really believing those truths, I have no idea what to do to qualify as "really doing it."

Where do I go from here? What do I do, specifically? I can't think of something I haven't already done.

My dear son - you sound desperate in your search for answers. You have scoured the posts for those answers but in doing so I sense you have missed the more obvious.

Have you thought that what you are doing is NOT wrong - and that it may be the very best thing for you to have done?

Your whole framework for considering God needs to change. Otherwise you are just going around the same circle.

There is nothing wrong with you, but you need to find your FIRST LOVE.

Do you remember reading those posts?

Or, perhaps, you were reading to find the answer you 'wanted'. Take it from us 'oldies', you won't find that answer anywhere except in yourself. (Sorry guys for the collective pronoun). You appear to be comparing yourself with others, real or imagined, and gauging yourself against that ideal. In essence, you are wanting people to tell you what to do - you are handing over that power which should be yours to exercise alone. It has been my experience that God cannot use such people - he has nothing to work with.

Who do I love - myself. I am so concerned about myself that the best thing I can reward myself with is to first love God. Once that relationship is establish the rest will follow.
 
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Elijah2

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I have to be honest in saying that I'm moved by the awesome responses, but this is all stuff I have heard many times, and tried to "let" happen. Even though I use the term "I" a lot, I'm not sure how else to phrase it.

I read the verses and I believe that I believed them and "let" them have their effect, but in the end, it didn't seem to "work out." It's hard to explain. I don't have the things that the Bible says I should, despite everything I did and didn't do.

Shouldn't God be doing what he said he would, and not waiting for me to fulfill some requirement? If I wasn't really saved and really believing those truths, I have no idea what to do to qualify as "really doing it."

Where do I go from here? What do I do, specifically? I can't think of something I haven't already done.


I have to be honest in saying that I'm moved by the awesome responses, but this is all stuff I have heard many times, and tried to "let" happen.
Mate, to be quiet honest with you, and not being offending, I don’t think you are listening, and I would reckon the word “but” comes often into your speech.

Even though I use the term "I" a lot, I'm not sure how else to phrase it.
Well, “I” is the least important word in regards to relationships.

If “I” is prominent, then so is “pride”!

I read the verses and I believe that I believed them and "let" them have their effect, but in the end, it didn't seem to "work out." It's hard to explain. I don't have the things that the Bible says I should, despite everything I did and didn't do.

Mate, it’s all about HIM and to make it HIM, you need to be accountable and responsible for “you”.

Have you ever had good GOD-anointed Christian counselling?

If not, then I would suggest that you get copies of Neil Anderson’s books: “Set Free”; “Victory Over Darkness”; and “The Bondage Breakers”. These books are a good start point for you to be set free.

Have you every dabbled in the powers of darkness, such as witchcraft, occult, spiritism, Wicca, or placed your finger on a Ouija board?

Shouldn't God be doing what he said he would, and not waiting for me to fulfill some requirement?
Yes, HIS requirement is for you to confess and repent all your sins verbally to HIM, and to ask HIM for forgiveness. And when I say confess and repent, I mean from your heart not your brain.

My dear brother, I’ve seen many like you who need healing and deliverance.

If I wasn't really saved and really believing those truths, I have no idea what to do to qualify as "really doing it."
Doing it means to get our Lord Jesus Christ into your heart, and to walk in obedience and discipline to HIS WORD.


Are you into “martial arts” or anything like that, such as “yoga”?

Where do I go from here? What do I do, specifically? I can't think of something I haven't already done.

Get those books that I suggested to you, and you life will turn around, because it’s not HIM, it’s you!

Blessings!:)
 
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ArcticFox

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I want to thank everyone so far for the awesome replies and advice. It's good stuff and nearly everything said I consider to be pretty solid.

On the other hand, I can't avoid saying something that I may not have communicated. I have been at this point before, but never so much with a sense of "hopelessness" for getting through it. I've been so many times to the point where I feel broken and that I've been "doing it wrong" and that I need to "come back" to the basics of getting to know Jesus.

I have done it... many times. I have tried to reevaluate myself and my faith. I tried to read the Bible afresh, putting aside a lot of the "I've read this before" feelings. I tried to pray in different ways, I tried waiting, I tried talking to pastors and good Christian friends. I tried questioning God and seeking answers, even in silence. I tried reading the Psalms and other books to see the similar ways that King David, Job, and others faced these kinds of feelings.

I've read a variety of books, some old and some new. It wasn't long at all before the books were repeating the same things, which is probably a good indication that there was some uniformity on the issues they discussed. I tried going deeper into theology, and letting off a bit and focusing less on doctrinal differences and more on God's glory and grace. I tried to emphasize love over all things, and see everything through the lens of God's glory.

I certainly would not have posted here had I thought that I knew it all, or somehow had "tried everything, and it didn't work." That's not what I feel or think. What I do feel, and believe, is that the concept that I haven't "really" been doing this or that won't help me, because I've been at that point over and over. Never have I felt so strongly about it as I have now, but it's not new. It's been a constant issue.

I've examined my life for sin, read books about God's love, tried to "lean into the arms of Jesus," tried "letting go and letting God," tried "seeking him in the silence of life." I tried fasting, I tried making new friends, I tried a lot of different things. As I mentioned earlier, I tried just waiting on God, and not putting effort into forcing anything to happen.

Through all of that, the books, the friends, the prayers, the silences, the fasts, the pastors, the Bible readings, the surrendering... through all of those things, I still, before much time passes, come back to my original post and the feelings and realities in that.

I was always the first to tell people not to rely on feelings, but on God's truth. So I listened to my own advice and started reading the Bible looking for God's truth and take hold of, stand on, live on, base my life on it.

The problem quickly became that they didn't seem to be coming true for me. That "fellowship" that the Bible talks about, I don't have it, and it seems that others around me, even Christians, aren't genuinely interested in sharing it with me. I've waited, I've tried my best to make it happen, to no avail. That "peace of God that surpasses all understanding" has never come to me, not even partially, despite everything I have and have not done, have and have not believed. Sins that I constantly struggle with seem to hold more power and sway over me than God and his Holy Spirit.

I thought that Jesus gave rest to those who came to him? Well, I came, I did everything I believed I could to qualify as coming to him, and yet I never seemed to receive that rest. I thought his yoke was light? I feel as if it was and is more burdensome than anything I experienced in the world. If he feeds even the birds the temporary food that doesn't last, shouldn't he feed his children with the spiritual food they need to remain in his grace?

Where is this love that it talks about in 1 Cor 13? I haven't (to my knowledge) seen it in action ever, only passively viewed it in the Scriptures. And where is the Shepherd to BRING me back to the sheepfold? Is he waiting at the sheepfold hoping and encouraging me to come back? If he is, doesn't he know that sheep are too stupid to come back on their own?

He said that he would bless the righteous, be a refuge for them, that he will teach sinners in the way, that he would not abandon us, that he would be our strength, that those who wait upon the Lord will renew their strength and mount up on wings like the eagles. He said that when we call upon him he will answer.

I look at all of these promises, and I took hold of them and made them my own. I memorized many of them, and recited them regularly. I tried to fight doubting thoughts or temptations to disbelieve. For a while, I believe it was working, and that God's promises were true for me... But, I realized that when I really looked at my life, it didn't seem so. I by no means have a bad life or difficult circumstances, it's just that I don't see any of God's hand in it, and it seems no better than if I had never met God... in fact, it seems that I am all the worse for having done so, as if the whole experience just loaded me with extra guilt and burdens that I never needed and cannot bear.

I hate to brush off the recommendations for books, but I've read so many and had so many explained to me through the years, I haven't encountered anything original in a long time.

I guess ultimately I am holding to the truth that a tree is shown to be what it is by its fruits. If the fruits are good, the tree is good, and if the fruits are bad, the tree is bad. That's what God teaches us. I look at the fruits of my Christian life, and it seems that more than anything else its a series of failures, struggles, burdens, guilt, and opportunities that never were. Is God such a god that he establishes so few churches that really even try to live the life that he has for them? Why is it that so often we have to explain why the church is failing, why the church isn't what we should look at, and why the church seems to be a bad example? Isn't the church supposed stand until the end, even against the gates of hell?

When I read the Bible, it's so fellowship-oriented that I cannot help but feel that most churches don't have nearly the kind of interaction the Bible speaks of. And yet, when it seems that a church tries to do so, it becomes nearly cult-like and its members often leave and feel like they had to escape a horrible situation.

Why is it that so many Christians seem to think that giving canned answers to deep issues is sufficient? Why do so many Christians at these churches focus so much time and effort into events and food and other things, but so little effort into people? Why is it that I can slip in and out of most churches I've ever been to without a single soul seeming to really even notice me? Why is it that I can stand even amongst a small group of believers and be the only one that no one seems to care about or talk to, and yet I know that if I were to ask around, others feel the same way.

I haven't experienced any church yet where we are tightly bound together because of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead, we're just another social institution where people try to find like-minded people to become friends with. People would tell me not to look to the churches of man, or some such phrase, but they are not the churches of man, are they? Aren't they supposed to be God's people, the church? Isn't God supposed to be there, wherever two or more or gathered in his name? Is he just sitting idly by why so many people walk away and feel abandoned because his "church" is failing so much? I thought the church was the gathering of God's people in which fellowship and growth can happen so easily?

I've got people telling me to ignore the institutions, just live with God and do his will. Then I got people telling me that one of the biggest problems with modern Christianity is the focus on self and the feeling that you can live the Christian life by yourself outside of God's church, the gathering of his people. Polar opposites seem to co-exist even within some of the same buildings, and few people can seem to agree on anything at times.

Through all of this I'm waiting on and hoping and looking to God, and receiving nothing. Are people trying to tell me that God has been giving me all the answers and guidance and peace and help that I need, but that I just "missed it?" What, is God in the habit of extending himself in love to people in ways that they just never see and are never able to take advantage of? Wouldnt' a father be a pretty bad one if he held a gift for his son, but left it in a hidden place and didn't tell his son, and let his son walk away feeling that he had received nothing on his special birthday? Wouldn't any loving friend or parent virtually want to force us to see their extensions of love? If my friend seems to ignore an e-mail I send him about a serious problem he is experiencing, I'll call to let him know I sent it and to make sure he doesn't go through it alone. Is God the type of god to just let us miss it over and over again?

People give stories of how God "tries" to do so much, but the person just fails to see it or take advantage of it. Is God so weak that he can't get someone's attention when he wants it? Is his love the kind of love that lets vitally important care and guidance go unnoticed? Any human friend or parent would quickly get your attention as best they could, but why does God supposedly not do so?

These are questions I cannot answer legitimately, and I struggle with them.
 
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Johnnz

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I have been there with people on the same journey, after having to travel some similar roads in my own life.

The problem you face is that any suggestion sounds just like another recipe, and you have tried so many already without success. A real key (but one that can be so difficult to find) is to have a mentor who will offer some guidance in your journey Most often it' s like a jigsaw coming together, small pieces at a time and not always related to each other. That's why we need the support of a wise person to help us see an emerging lattice rather than a sudden 'revelation'.

I know this is not much of a help, but if I can just help hang on somehow and continue your journey, hard as that is right now, that may be all I could hope to achieve from so far away. There are just so many on that same hard path right now.

Bless you
John
NZ
 
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Elijah2

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My dear brother, AF, do you think you are alone, I've been there all my life with our Lord Jesus Christ, and the only thing that keeps me going is my faith, my fellowship with a couple of Christian mates, posting on forums, and my social sport, and of course my dear wife of 46 years.

So here we are at a stalemate.

But, I will read through you last post again tomorrow and make some comment.

It appears to me that you have lost your love for your first love.

The churches I've been through have had no first century church resemblance, no fellowship and no inter-action. They are dead like going to work on the same bus every morning and coming home on the same bus in the evening.

For this reason I am an out-of-church Christian.

So, what do you really want from our Lord Jesus Christ?

HE has given all His love and grace. HE has forgiven you when you have CONFESSED and REPENTED your sins and unforgiveness.

So, what do you want? A bolt of lightening to fly out of the heavens and strike you down, or do you want to face life as HIS Disciple is that it's not going to get any better than what you have.

How do you think the Disciples in our Lord Jesus Christ's time were handling life at the coal-face?

Do you really think that a Christian walk is that simple. Out there is a mean world, and there are more enemies out there that would gladly slap you down.

And as sad as it is, there are much the same sort of people in churches as well.

But, deep down there are many great good and kind people in the churches, and it appears that you are in the wrong country for what you are yearning for.

I haven't checked your profile, but are you married?

And besides you didn't answer my question if you are involved in martial arts or yoga?

As I briefly read through your last posting I began to wonder that you have survived this long on "head knowledge" and no "heart knowledge".

We all give stories about how our Lord Jesus Christ is always with us, and HE loves us, and HE will not forsake us, and as we walk along that narrow path, we cry out: "Where are you Lord?" And there is nothing, or that is you didn't hear HIS quiet answer, because we were likely singing our own song" "What about me!"

How old are you mate?

And again, I think I asked you a question if you have ever dabbled in the powers of darkness at anytime in your life?

Blessings.
 
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ArcticFox

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Hi Elijah,

Thanks for the helpful suggestions, I appreciate it.

No, I haven't been involved in martial arts or yoga. I also have to say that I do not believe that such things are "dark arts," though there is certainly a degree of teachings to some of these things that are contrary to biblical teachings.
 
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razzelflabben

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I want to thank everyone so far for the awesome replies and advice. It's good stuff and nearly everything said I consider to be pretty solid.

On the other hand, I can't avoid saying something that I may not have communicated. I have been at this point before, but never so much with a sense of "hopelessness" for getting through it. I've been so many times to the point where I feel broken and that I've been "doing it wrong" and that I need to "come back" to the basics of getting to know Jesus.

I have done it... many times. I have tried to reevaluate myself and my faith. I tried to read the Bible afresh, putting aside a lot of the "I've read this before" feelings. I tried to pray in different ways, I tried waiting, I tried talking to pastors and good Christian friends. I tried questioning God and seeking answers, even in silence. I tried reading the Psalms and other books to see the similar ways that King David, Job, and others faced these kinds of feelings.

I've read a variety of books, some old and some new. It wasn't long at all before the books were repeating the same things, which is probably a good indication that there was some uniformity on the issues they discussed. I tried going deeper into theology, and letting off a bit and focusing less on doctrinal differences and more on God's glory and grace. I tried to emphasize love over all things, and see everything through the lens of God's glory.

I certainly would not have posted here had I thought that I knew it all, or somehow had "tried everything, and it didn't work." That's not what I feel or think. What I do feel, and believe, is that the concept that I haven't "really" been doing this or that won't help me, because I've been at that point over and over. Never have I felt so strongly about it as I have now, but it's not new. It's been a constant issue.

I've examined my life for sin, read books about God's love, tried to "lean into the arms of Jesus," tried "letting go and letting God," tried "seeking him in the silence of life." I tried fasting, I tried making new friends, I tried a lot of different things. As I mentioned earlier, I tried just waiting on God, and not putting effort into forcing anything to happen.

Through all of that, the books, the friends, the prayers, the silences, the fasts, the pastors, the Bible readings, the surrendering... through all of those things, I still, before much time passes, come back to my original post and the feelings and realities in that.

I was always the first to tell people not to rely on feelings, but on God's truth. So I listened to my own advice and started reading the Bible looking for God's truth and take hold of, stand on, live on, base my life on it.

The problem quickly became that they didn't seem to be coming true for me. That "fellowship" that the Bible talks about, I don't have it, and it seems that others around me, even Christians, aren't genuinely interested in sharing it with me. I've waited, I've tried my best to make it happen, to no avail. That "peace of God that surpasses all understanding" has never come to me, not even partially, despite everything I have and have not done, have and have not believed. Sins that I constantly struggle with seem to hold more power and sway over me than God and his Holy Spirit.
can I ask you a question? What do you think that peace looks like? feels like? What exactly, with definitions so to speak do you seek from God?
I thought that Jesus gave rest to those who came to him? Well, I came, I did everything I believed I could to qualify as coming to him, and yet I never seemed to receive that rest. I thought his yoke was light? I feel as if it was and is more burdensome than anything I experienced in the world. If he feeds even the birds the temporary food that doesn't last, shouldn't he feed his children with the spiritual food they need to remain in his grace?
many times we don't see all that God is or has done because our vision is clouded by this world, by our own ideas and supposed needs. So I think we need to know exactly what you think you want from God...we have peace so far, and easy life, but those mean different things to different people so how about some specifics, what would it look like to you?
Where is this love that it talks about in 1 Cor 13? I haven't (to my knowledge) seen it in action ever, only passively viewed it in the Scriptures. And where is the Shepherd to BRING me back to the sheepfold? Is he waiting at the sheepfold hoping and encouraging me to come back? If he is, doesn't he know that sheep are too stupid to come back on their own?
as to love, recognizing love is a problem for many of us...it touches our lives, moves us, and we don't recognize it...I could make an entire thread on this alone, but I think we need to first understand exactly what you are looking for, so since love is included in your post, what do you think love looks like? How would you recognize it if it touched your life?
He said that he would bless the righteous, be a refuge for them, that he will teach sinners in the way, that he would not abandon us, that he would be our strength, that those who wait upon the Lord will renew their strength and mount up on wings like the eagles. He said that when we call upon him he will answer.

I look at all of these promises, and I took hold of them and made them my own. I memorized many of them, and recited them regularly. I tried to fight doubting thoughts or temptations to disbelieve. For a while, I believe it was working, and that God's promises were true for me... But, I realized that when I really looked at my life, it didn't seem so. I by no means have a bad life or difficult circumstances, it's just that I don't see any of God's hand in it, and it seems no better than if I had never met God... in fact, it seems that I am all the worse for having done so, as if the whole experience just loaded me with extra guilt and burdens that I never needed and cannot bear.
again, what would the touch of God look like in your life? Many times, we overlook the obvious.
I hate to brush off the recommendations for books, but I've read so many and had so many explained to me through the years, I haven't encountered anything original in a long time.

I guess ultimately I am holding to the truth that a tree is shown to be what it is by its fruits. If the fruits are good, the tree is good, and if the fruits are bad, the tree is bad. That's what God teaches us. I look at the fruits of my Christian life, and it seems that more than anything else its a series of failures, struggles, burdens, guilt, and opportunities that never were. Is God such a god that he establishes so few churches that really even try to live the life that he has for them? Why is it that so often we have to explain why the church is failing, why the church isn't what we should look at, and why the church seems to be a bad example? Isn't the church supposed stand until the end, even against the gates of hell?
the "church" as we know it, is no closer to God than the world, they play Christian, they pretend to be saved, they go through the motions but it is all about what they do, not about who God is...they never have received a glimpse of the God they claim to love...they are religious not in love with the Lord of Lord's and King of King's.

That is the sad reality of the church today, and our family struggled with this for many years...but the bible tells us the "church" is the body of believers and so we prayed for this church, that we could someday find it. Today, after years and years and years, we found a group, a remnant of people who believe and have been transformed by the Holy Spirit within. Don't confuse religion with the love and power of the Lord Jesus Christ.
When I read the Bible, it's so fellowship-oriented that I cannot help but feel that most churches don't have nearly the kind of interaction the Bible speaks of. And yet, when it seems that a church tries to do so, it becomes nearly cult-like and its members often leave and feel like they had to escape a horrible situation.
again, what you are seeing is religion and/or false teachers who seek to destroy.
Why is it that so many Christians seem to think that giving canned answers to deep issues is sufficient? Why do so many Christians at these churches focus so much time and effort into events and food and other things, but so little effort into people? Why is it that I can slip in and out of most churches I've ever been to without a single soul seeming to really even notice me? Why is it that I can stand even amongst a small group of believers and be the only one that no one seems to care about or talk to, and yet I know that if I were to ask around, others feel the same way.
much of that questioning goes back to the personal "need" to be the center of attention...
The church we are currently going to, took a jump of almost 200 people in one week service...now despite all the efforts, there will be someone in 200 people who feels overlooked...in fact, we had one couple who left, when people grasped they weren't there, calls were made, but they were already offended...it wasn't that they weren't missed, it was that with 200 people to "weed" through, many people just assumed they missed them in the crowd...how do you address that? How do you get to know over 200 people intimately enough to notice they are gone, in one week, one one hour service? Now I know that this is an extreme case, but the point is this, many people, in fact it is human nature, want to be the center of attention, want to know they are loved and missed and that they are special...just because you get overlooked by the church doesn't mean you are not loved or missed or special, it means that human nature fights human nature. It means that you are one of a host of people all with the same emotions, thoughts, and flaws, you will miss others who feel the same needs...consider this, when this discussion is over, you will most likely not know I was even here, that I even exist...that doesn't mean you don't want me here or value what I am saying to you...what it means is that life happens and we become involved, we are human...
I haven't experienced any church yet where we are tightly bound together because of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead, we're just another social institution where people try to find like-minded people to become friends with. People would tell me not to look to the churches of man, or some such phrase, but they are not the churches of man, are they? Aren't they supposed to be God's people, the church? Isn't God supposed to be there, wherever two or more or gathered in his name? Is he just sitting idly by why so many people walk away and feel abandoned because his "church" is failing so much? I thought the church was the gathering of God's people in which fellowship and growth can happen so easily?
your looking to the religious to find the supernatural...you won't find God in the midst of the world...God isn't religious, He is spiritual, He is rules and regulations, He is transformation.
I've got people telling me to ignore the institutions, just live with God and do his will. Then I got people telling me that one of the biggest problems with modern Christianity is the focus on self and the feeling that you can live the Christian life by yourself outside of God's church, the gathering of his people. Polar opposites seem to co-exist even within some of the same buildings, and few people can seem to agree on anything at times.
that is because we people try to make everything about the if/or's of life, but God is both/and...for example, institutions you are talking about here, it is important to fellowship with other believers, but it is also important to not rely on other believers to be God of our life or in order to see God. God is both/and, it's fellowship and individual, God is not if/or, one or the other, but rather God is both...
Through all of this I'm waiting on and hoping and looking to God, and receiving nothing. Are people trying to tell me that God has been giving me all the answers and guidance and peace and help that I need, but that I just "missed it?" What, is God in the habit of extending himself in love to people in ways that they just never see and are never able to take advantage of? Wouldnt' a father be a pretty bad one if he held a gift for his son, but left it in a hidden place and didn't tell his son, and let his son walk away feeling that he had received nothing on his special birthday? Wouldn't any loving friend or parent virtually want to force us to see their extensions of love? If my friend seems to ignore an e-mail I send him about a serious problem he is experiencing, I'll call to let him know I sent it and to make sure he doesn't go through it alone. Is God the type of god to just let us miss it over and over again?
lots of stuff here, all of which you already know the answers to...consider love, what is the picture of Love in the bible? How do you know Love when it touches you? Does a child always recognize a parents love that is extended to them, or accept that love?

We have a son, will be 20 in a few months, went through a terrible time of rejecting all the love we showed him...he closed his eyes and heart to the love that was extended...now he is in Iraq serving as a medic to the Marines and is finally beginning to grasp what love really looks like. Seems to me that you have either forgotten or never quite realized what love looks like. Your going through life looking for something but not sure what it is you are looking for. As someone who has studied the word, you know what it looks like but it isn't what you want it to look like and so you blame God instead of your own eyesight, you need glasses to see what you cannot see. For our son, the military was his glasses, what is it for you?
People give stories of how God "tries" to do so much, but the person just fails to see it or take advantage of it. Is God so weak that he can't get someone's attention when he wants it? Is his love the kind of love that lets vitally important care and guidance go unnoticed? Any human friend or parent would quickly get your attention as best they could, but why does God supposedly not do so?
are you so sure God isn't trying to get your attention? If He wasn't why are you here?
These are questions I cannot answer legitimately, and I struggle with them.
so let's explore and find the answers you seek
 
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The issue I'm going to ask you about is neither simple nor easy. It's not short, either.

Let me start at the beginning. I came into a knowledge of the Lord at around age 18. I do not believe in particular "salvation" dates, but just know approximately the time when the Lord began his saving work on me. I see salvation as a movement of the Holy Spirit, bringing me into a knowledge of his Son and drawing me into a relationship with Him. I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three but one, an eternally existing god who created all things and is in all things, and through which all things have their substance. I believe he is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-sovereign.

After coming to this faith, I attended a variety of churches. I had experience with what I would call a very legalistic "fundamentalist Baptist" church. Forgive me if that offends. They demanded a great deal of control over congregants, banning things such as shorts on women, music with a beat, and going to the movie theater. I then attended a church that was highly charismatic, then a more mainstream Baptist church, then an Evangelical Presbyterian church. I became a member first at this church.

I attended college and met numerous Christian friends. I read through the Bible numerous times, became quite an amateur "Bible scholar," and participated in numerous debates, prayer groups, college Christian groups, and praise groups. I had a pretty well-rounded experience of a variety of different ways to worship God and to commune with him. Years passed. I got married, graduated college, and started working full-time as a teacher.

I struggled with a variety of issues, nothing overly serious. I often debated and tried to sway people back to the faith if they left, and I tried to learn when debate wasn't in order and simply cared for a friend. A leader of a church group once said to me, "You read and study the Bible more than anyone else I know."

Despite all of that, I have to admit that I was never content with my life. I always felt like I was screwing up. I beat myself up over even the smallest mistakes, though by far I'm not a perfectionist. I can't seem to let go of any big mistakes I've made. I never feel like I pray enough, I never feel that I'm pure enough, I never feel that I'm living to the standard I could and should be. I always feel judged by the people around me and by myself, and by God, no matter what I read to try to convince me otherwise. Sometimes, I feel like a fake living a phony lifestyle, pretending to be something I'm not.

Countless times I've "come to the cross," countless times I've gone through the "year to put guilt away." I've done a variety of things, gone to retreats, talked to pastors and elders, prayed, begged for forgiveness for a variety of things, yet I can't shake the feeling that I'm a fake, a failure, a bad person. I feel like everyone in my life is better than me, and that I don't deserve to happy, and that's why I never can be. I try to not think about it, I try to just focus on other things, but the feelings and the sensations remain.

I have so many desires that I can't shake, things the Bible would call carnal. I seem to live only for myself, and can't understand why I can't be different. Years of trying hard, years of letting go and letting God, years of trying to find a balance between the two, years of prayer, years of fellowship, and through it all nothing seems to change.

I feel like I can't play the part anymore, and pretend to be something I'm not. The Bible seems so completely empty to me, prayer couldn't be more worthless in my eyes. I've never really felt that God had done anything miraculously or even special or caring for me, that my life is just the product of my circumstances.

I came to a new church over two years ago. I live in Japan and became a member at a nearly all-Japanese church. I felt like I finally found a bit of a home... there were a lot of things that bothered me about the church, but I felt the fellowship was awesome and that this place could finally be a place where I could start to feel like I belong somewhere and to something. We had cell groups that we were very active with.

In time, it became obvious... the church was all about activities and not relationships, and that no one really ever talked to me. Despite my extensive ability to use Japanese in a variety of circumstances and to make jokes and to have fun using the language, people just weren't interested in me and didn't seem to care. After time, the church leaders decided to isolate all the non-Japanese into a separate cell group, composed of about 3-5 regular people, less if one person didn't show up. We had few activities, and did very little compared to our previous cell groups (all Japanese now). It seemed like we were being shoved aside. Sometimes, even when we only had one activity a week (versus the 4-5, or even 6 for the other groups), they would cancel it or cut it short. The only guy I thought that might have cared about me, I realized that he felt sorry for me and thought I needed a friend and pretended to be my friend, but he couldn't maintain the facade for long.

I'm married and had numerous friends in the US, I made a few friends here in Japan. I don't feel like I'm a needy or overly sad person. I kept my feelings of inferiority and discontent to myself, smiled a lot, joked a lot, and tried to be real and let people know about me little-by-little, as long as I felt the relationship was deep enough for it. I feel like I have a lot to offer people relationship wise, and that I can be a great friend.

So, I told the church that our situation was bad, it wasn't appropriate, and that we should be put back into regular cell groups. After asking me to wait for a month, they still said they hadn't decided. I waited another month, still, they said, "We don't know yet." I learned that they didn't really take any time to discuss, that they were "busy" with other things for those two months. Finally I was told, "OK, you can join a regular cell group." Next week, no, that's not true anymore. I said they have one week to make a decision... After a week, they said, "we feel your current place is best." Basically, "goodbye." I left.

This was sort of my last real attempt to feel real, to feel "good" about living and serving in God's grace. I tried to justify and say that this was God's way of helping me be sympathetic to people in this situation in the future, but in reality, I didn't feel that way. It seemed that I could just never feel at home, never feel like part of the family. I could never feel happy about who I am, not even in the blood of Christ's sacrifice.

I read and read the Bible, but it didn't give me any comfort. Praying seemed empty and pointless. Months have turned into years, nothing seems to "fix" this. I wait for God to make a move, I try to make my own move, I try to see a purpose or meaning in the people around me... Nothing.

So I attend church less now, I occupy myself with other hobbies and interests. I don't think much about God, or the Bible. I don't pray anymore, I don't read the Bible, and when I do attend church, I apathetically mouth the words to a few songs, and listen attentively to the sermon hoping that it ends a little early today. I don't give anything to the church because I just don't feel like it.

I haven't posted here in months, but long-timers here on these boards will know me. They'll know how fervently I fought the good fight of faith, how I tried to encourage and help others, how I crafted careful arguments defending key elements of the faith, and how I enjoyed good conversation about God and his truths.

So what now? I wait eagerly, hoping God will make good on his promise to go after the lost sheep. Many people wrongly believe that the story of the 1 sheep and the 99 is a story about bringing in new believers, but they fail to see that the sheep are already in God's fold, and the the wandering sheep is not an unbeliever but a believer who has strayed away from the shepherd. They also fail to see how God goes out and GETS the sheep, and brings it back... The sheep doesn't eventually wander back to the fold with a little encouraging words... The Shepherd goes after the sheep, uses his staff to drag the sheep by his neck back into the fold. If small enough, he'd lift the sheep up and carry it back. If necessary, he'd break the legs of a sheep that wandered too many times.

So here I am... I feel like I've been broken, but it doesn't seem to have helped at all. I don't feel like I've been brought back, I tried to get myself brought back, with no success.

So what now? When nothing seems enough, do I give up? Do I continue pretending to be something I am not? Do I endlessly wait more years for something I've never had, and have no current hope to have? Do I continue to believe on faith the things that have never seemingly been true for me? Where is the peace of God that surpasses all understanding? Where is the voice of my Shepherd? Where is the mother hen to wrap me in her wings? Where is the Father to love me and care for me, to guide me and lift me up? Where is the Holy Spirit inside me to empower me?

Now I'm just living my life, unable to tell my wife about the extent of my feelings. I'm living honestly, and when I stumble, I don't feel so bad about myself. I don't judge my actions all the time, and the surrounding judgment from others seems to fade slowly and surely. I feel free, and I start to feel like I can be happy. Am I being seduced by the cares of this world? Or am I being freed from the chains that I brought upon myself?

Once upon a time I felt freed by God's truths. But that is the very thing that came to feel like my prison. And now escaping is the only thing that seems to bring me light and grant me peace. Why do I feel so peaceful doing something that should be so wrong?

When nothing seems enough, what do I do? What else is there to do now but to give up? The years of trying have left me worse off, the years of praying for an answer have left me without a hope. If this God that we profess exists as he says he does, shouldn't he be here by now? Is he leaving me to wallow in my own self-loathing and emptiness? Why would he do such a thing, and for what purpose?

I'm so open and willing to be carried back to the sheepfold, but I'm still lost out in the rocks somewhere, and I feel all the happier for it.

It sounds like while you know in your mind that Christ died to save you from the chains of sin and that he forgave you, you never really believed it with your heart. That is why you are experiencing guilt and feel that you will never be good enough. You are depending on yourself to uphold the law instead of depending on the Holy Spirit. We, as humans, are not capable of living perfect lives. God knows that, but we are not condemned! He already forgave us! Just believe in his saving power and trust Him to live through you. Give Him control of your body. Don't fret over anything. God tells us not to worry. He consistently tells us to trust Him. That voice that is telling you that you will never be good enough is Satan whispering in your ear! Tell him to GO AWAY IN THE NAME OF JESUS! Resist his lies...don't give into them! Also, don't compare yourself to other people...they are falliable. It's not a contest to see who is more righteous! Noone is righteous...not even one...remember? It is because of God's mercy and grace that we have the hope that we have (eternal life). I would encourage you to just seek his face, pour your heart out to Him and tell him exactly how you are feeling. Ask Him to empower you to fight off the enemy and to trust in his saving power and forgiveness. Trust that he will give you victory over sin if you yield to the Holy Spirit! Ask for discernment! He doesn't leave us in chains! He frees us from the sin that so easily entangles! He frees us from the guilt of sin bc of his mercy! It is only in He that true joy can be found! He is allowing you to search the things of this world so that you will find that out on your own and come back to Him! Come back to Him now!

God Bless!
 
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Bridgit

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Dear ArcticFox, do not rely on your feelings. I would suggest you stop "doing" and let God work through you. Just live by faith. You are to focus on God and stop focusing on yourself. Just believe and let Him accomplish His purpose in you. There is nothing we can do for God. He is only asking us to let Him live through us. Let go and let God.
 
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jesrein9

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ArcticFox.. i just wanted to encourage you that i felt this way for a real long time.. i still do sometimes.. I went and memorized Romans chapter 8.. it helped for a while.. but the only thing that really helped me was to throw away everything i was ever taught.. and relearn everything about God. I realized that what man has taught me and i followed.. was religion.. and what God revealed to me on my own was relationship. It is in that relationship that i found the peace, and comfort, the presence of God that i really need. The devil will sit around all day making you feel like you're doing something wrong, and that you're not good enough. The key is to remember that as Jesus was hanging on the cross when He said the words "Father Forgive them" it was for us now, it was for our past, it was for the mistakes we will most likely make tomorrow... Jesus knew we woudlnt' be perfect even after His sacrifice. It was that very fact that caused Him to die for us. If we were able to have a sacrifice and then be perfect and never make another mistake, then the animal sacrifices of the old testmant would be good enough. His sacrifice was to show us that He made the way even when we are complete hypocrites. I hope this helps.. PM me sometime.. i would love to be that person you can connect with who will help bring you back home.

God Bless
 
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Zeena

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I want to thank everyone so far for the awesome replies and advice. It's good stuff and nearly everything said I consider to be pretty solid.
Praise God :)

On the other hand, I can't avoid saying something that I may not have communicated. I have been at this point before, but never so much with a sense of "hopelessness" for getting through it. I've been so many times to the point where I feel broken and that I've been "doing it wrong" and that I need to "come back" to the basics of getting to know Jesus.
That's really sad!

We are exhorted by Jesus to count the cost, and see if we have enough to complete the task before starting..
It seems as though you didn't have enough..

Or did you?

Are you aware that all you ever needed was Jesus?
Are you privy to the fact that's He's your Life by faith on His Name?
Are you sure that He is able to bring His work to completion?

Meh, seems you DID have what it took to complete it all along! :clap:

JESUS!!! :D

I have done it... many times. I have tried to reevaluate myself and my faith. I tried to read the Bible afresh, putting aside a lot of the "I've read this before" feelings. I tried to pray in different ways, I tried waiting, I tried talking to pastors and good Christian friends. I tried questioning God and seeking answers, even in silence. I tried reading the Psalms and other books to see the similar ways that King David, Job, and others faced these kinds of feelings.

I've read a variety of books, some old and some new. It wasn't long at all before the books were repeating the same things, which is probably a good indication that there was some uniformity on the issues they discussed. I tried going deeper into theology, and letting off a bit and focusing less on doctrinal differences and more on God's glory and grace. I tried to emphasize love over all things, and see everything through the lens of God's glory.
The lens of God's Glory is JESUS!

None of the above was what your soul desires.

All you ever needed was the Saviour, and you got Him, 'cuz He's got you! :D

I certainly would not have posted here had I thought that I knew it all, or somehow had "tried everything, and it didn't work." That's not what I feel or think. What I do feel, and believe, is that the concept that I haven't "really" been doing this or that won't help me, because I've been at that point over and over. Never have I felt so strongly about it as I have now, but it's not new. It's been a constant issue.
Entering the rest of God is to BELIEVE that He is your Life by faith through Grace, and to walk in the Light of that fact!

It IS a fact!

You died, were buried and raised to new Life in Him.
He has raise you up and seated you in the Heavenly places in Christ Jesus while He Lives out His Holy Life in and through you to the Glory of the Father!

I've examined my life for sin,
Bad move [but you are not bad]. Allow our Father to examine you, for He will not allow any untruths to puff you up. This is most likely why you're feeling downcast in the first place. :(

We really aught not to judge ourselves. We are to reckon the redeeming Power of the Blood of Christ as cleansing for our consiouses.

If you require Scriptural verse for anything I'm mentioning do, do feel free to ask. But as is, I will get ready for discipleship for 7pm today and forgo quotations for contraints of time.

read books about God's love,
Whatever for, when the Love of God has been shed abroad in your HEART?!?

tried to "lean into the arms of Jesus,"
Jesus has something better for you. As you have faith in Him to Live His Holy Life in and through you, HE will lean on the arms of the FATHER! :clap:

tried "letting go and letting God,"
False ideology. CLING to Jesus, for He is risen! 'Don't let go'!

tried "seeking him in the silence of life."
That still quiet place the Prophet spoke of was during a temptuest storm! ^_^

That still quiet place is the hustle and bustle of life!

I tried fasting,
Jesus disciples didn't fast while He was with them. And He is with you now! :D

I tried making new friends,
You already have the best friend ion the world! ;)

I tried a lot of different things.
And here we go again, once more around the merry go round.

You know, we aren't human DOINGS, we are human BEINGS, yes?
Enough with the trying, God accepts you just as you are, no more treadmills, ok?

As I mentioned earlier, I tried just waiting on God, and not putting effort into forcing anything to happen.

We need to apply our faith, not our works.
We must believe in Jesus as both our Saviour and Lord.
And HE will do the works of God in and through you, to the Glory of the Father! :thumbsup:

Through all of that, the books, the friends, the prayers, the silences, the fasts, the pastors, the Bible readings, the surrendering... through all of those things, I still, before much time passes, come back to my original post and the feelings and realities in that.
One thing remains..

BELIEVE on Jesus as your Life, and see if He don't work..

I was always the first to tell people not to rely on feelings, but on God's truth. So I listened to my own advice and started reading the Bible looking for God's truth and take hold of, stand on, live on, base my life on it.
Jesus says;You seach the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life, but they are that which testify OF ME! And He went on to say "I AM THE LIFE!"

The problem quickly became that they didn't seem to be coming true for me.
And they never will!
God will not give His Glory to another, either the Lord beuilds the house or the people build it in VAIN!

I'll reply more later, God Willing.

BELIEVE and LIVE!
 
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It sounds like while you know in your mind that Christ died to save you from the chains of sin and that he forgave you, you never really believed it with your heart. That is why you are experiencing guilt and feel that you will never be good enough. You are depending on yourself to uphold the law instead of depending on the Holy Spirit. We, as humans, are not capable of living perfect lives. God knows that, but we are not condemned! He already forgave us! Just believe in his saving power and trust Him to live through you. Give Him control of your body. Don't fret over anything. God tells us not to worry. He consistently tells us to trust Him. That voice that is telling you that you will never be good enough is Satan whispering in your ear! Tell him to GO AWAY IN THE NAME OF JESUS! Resist his lies...don't give into them! Also, don't compare yourself to other people...they are falliable. It's not a contest to see who is more righteous! Noone is righteous...not even one...remember? It is because of God's mercy and grace that we have the hope that we have (eternal life). I would encourage you to just seek his face, pour your heart out to Him and tell him exactly how you are feeling. Ask Him to empower you to fight off the enemy and to trust in his saving power and forgiveness. Trust that he will give you victory over sin if you yield to the Holy Spirit! Ask for discernment! He doesn't leave us in chains! He frees us from the sin that so easily entangles! He frees us from the guilt of sin bc of his mercy! It is only in He that true joy can be found! He is allowing you to search the things of this world so that you will find that out on your own and come back to Him! Come back to Him now!

God Bless!

To add to what I previously said, whenever you doubt your faith, salvation, or that your sins were forgiven and think that you will never be good enough, look back throughout the gospels to see what Jesus did and how it fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. This is just to remind yourself that he was the promised Messiah. Also, just look at all of the people throughout the Bible that God used. David was an adulterer and a murderer, yet he was still a man after God's own heart. God still used him. Saul used to persecute Christians, yet he became one of God's greatest witnesses, too. And, look back at all the things that He has done in your own life (how he gave you victory over sin, gave you much wisdom, used you to minister and witness to people, etc). God only does these things for those whom he loves and has forgiven! Accept his forgiveness and don't allow Satan to make you feel any guilt over sins of the past, present, or future. They were all covered on the cross! Not only were they forgiven, but they were conquered! Trust in Christ to give you victory! Don't try to do it on your own because you don't have to! The battle is a spiritual battle that is already won if you trust in the power of the cross!

God Bless!
 
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Elijah2

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Hi Elijah,

Thanks for the helpful suggestions, I appreciate it.

No, I haven't been involved in martial arts or yoga. I also have to say that I do not believe that such things are "dark arts," though there is certainly a degree of teachings to some of these things that are contrary to biblical teachings.

Mate, have been around the traps far too long to accept anything into the Body of Christ that belongs to another religion that worships other deities. You can't change any deity by making an oxymoron out of a word, such as Christian martial arts, or Christian yoga, or Christian wicca.

You can believe what you like, but if you don't know the real consequences of any sort of dabbling, through the "unseen world", then you need to accept my warning.

When you play with fire you get burnt.

I am please that you are not involved in it, but it appears that you problem is very deep down spiritual problems.

Blessings.
 
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Elijah2

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Hi AF,

I want to thank everyone so far for the awesome replies and advice. It's good stuff and nearly everything said I consider to be pretty solid.

On the other hand, I can't avoid saying something that I may not have communicated. I have been at this point before, but never so much with a sense of "hopelessness" for getting through it. I've been so many times to the point where I feel broken and that I've been "doing it wrong" and that I need to "come back" to the basics of getting to know Jesus.
I guess when we get to “hopelessness” we have become desperate. Are you that desperate or are you just had enough of life?


Is things that bad that you can’t resolve or solve them?

Now this problem isn’t that hopelessness, because you can change the situation of your life, for example, by moving back to where you came from, unless you an exile?

I have done it... many times. I have tried to re-evaluate myself and my faith. I tried to read the Bible afresh, putting aside a lot of the "I've read this before" feelings. I tried to pray in different ways, I tried waiting,
Mate, the sad thing about things is that far too many believers believe that all they have to is sit around in a parked car with it’s motor running, waiting for HIM to return.

Mate, life still goes on, and you do all those earthly things that make life not such a bore.

Do you play any form of sport?

You say that you tried to re-evaluate yourself and your faith, but have you ever gone deep down into your heart and peel away all those layers that should have been sorted out a long time ago?

I am sorry if I have forgotten, but are you married?

I tried talking to pastors and good Christian friends. I tried questioning God and seeking answers, even in silence. I tried reading the Psalms and other books to see the similar ways that King David, Job, and others faced these kinds of feelings.
What do you mean by trying to talk to pastor? You ask them for help, for healing, and possibly deliverance, because there appears to be some deep down spiritual problem in your life.

I've read a variety of books, some old and some new. It wasn't long at all before the books were repeating the same things, which is probably a good indication that there was some uniformity on the issues they discussed. I tried going deeper into theology, and letting off a bit and focusing less on doctrinal differences and more on God's glory and grace. I tried to emphasize love over all things, and see everything through the lens of God's glory.
Have you ever had healing and deliverance?

I certainly would not have posted here had I thought that I knew it all, or somehow had "tried everything, and it didn't work." That's not what I feel or think. What I do feel, and believe, is that the concept that I haven't "really" been doing this or that won't help me, because I've been at that point over and over. Never have I felt so strongly about it as I have now, but it's not new. It's been a constant issue.
Is your heart brokened?

I've examined my life for sin,
Did you ask our Lord Jesus Christ to show you of all of your unconfessed and unrepented sin? Try HIM, and ask HIM to show you all who have offended, hurt and rejected you, and I bet a great number of names of people will begin to flow out of your heart. Get a piece of paper, and then ask HIM, and then start writing down the names and incidents as they come to mind, and don’t debate them, just write them down immediately. You’ll be surprised the unforgiveness you are still carrying secretly. Have you forgiven those who rejected you in the church? Have you taken it to our Lord Jesus Christ verbally and aloud in prayer?

read books about God's love, tried to "lean into the arms of Jesus," tried "letting go and letting God," tried "seeking him in the silence of life." I tried fasting, I tried making new friends, I tried a lot of different things. As I mentioned earlier, I tried just waiting on God, and not putting effort into forcing anything to happen.
Well, how about reading books about spiritual bondage, and strongmen and strongholds? And read Neil Anderson’s book “SET FREE” from emotional, sexual, mental, and spiritual captivity.

Through all of that, the books, the friends, the prayers, the silences, the fasts, the pastors, the Bible readings, the surrendering... through all of those things, I still, before much time passes, come back to my original post and the feelings and realities in that.
Mate, when we wallow in “self-pity” then it’s hard to come back from that pit of loneliness and being alone. Are you lonely and alone?

I was always the first to tell people not to rely on feelings, but on God's truth. So I listened to my own advice and started reading the Bible looking for God's truth and take hold of, stand on, live on, base my life on it.
As sad as it is, many of us talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk?

The problem quickly became that they didn't seem to be coming true for me. That "fellowship" that the Bible talks about, I don't have it, and it seems that others around me, even Christians, aren't genuinely interested in sharing it with me. I've waited, I've tried my best to make it happen, to no avail. That "peace of God that surpasses all understanding" has never come to me, not even partially, despite everything I have and have not done, have and have not believed.
Mate, you mean to tell me that here you are in Japan and you haven’t any friends to share things with? You must have some form of fellowship and relationship with other men.

Sins that I constantly struggle with seem to hold more power and sway over me than God and his Holy Spirit.
You said that you had no sin, so what sin are you talking about that has more power over you. Is there something in your past that you are not sharing? Have you ever made any oaths to an organisation?

I thought that Jesus gave rest to those who came to him?
Mate, I came to HIM 50 years ago, and I still lack that peace and joy that we are suppose to have. But, I am patient, self-controlled, gentle, faithful, good and kind, and do have love, but that joy and peace eludes me. And many other Christians are just the same.

Well, I came, I did everything I believed I could to qualify as coming to him, and yet I never seemed to receive that rest. I thought his yoke was light? I feel as if it was and is more burdensome than anything I experienced in the world. If he feeds even the birds the temporary food that doesn't last, shouldn't he feed his children with the spiritual food they need to remain in his grace?
Your life is what you make it, NOT HIM! He’s only there to make sure that you keep going and fulfil HIS COMMANDMENTS, and to protect you when you need protection.

Where is this love that it talks about in 1 Cor 13? I haven't (to my knowledge) seen it in action ever, only passively viewed it in the Scriptures.
That love is there, but you have to express it as well.

Most churches all gather around make a lot of noise, but it’s all about HIM, not the churches, or the people who act with a form of godliness, which is nothing but a farce.

And where is the Shepherd to BRING me back to the sheepfold?
He’s here, he is talking to you right now!

Is he waiting at the sheepfold hoping and encouraging me to come back?
Mate, my next posting to you will be a 3-foot length of four by four piece of timber, and I will smack you around the head with it.:)

If he is, doesn't he know that sheep are too stupid to come back on their own?
Mate, your will, your choice, and your decision; it’s all up to you!

He said that he would bless the righteous, be a refuge for them, that he will teach sinners in the way, that he would not abandon us, that he would be our strength, that those who wait upon the Lord will renew their strength and mount up on wings like the eagles. He said that when we call upon him he will answer.
Well, HE did answer, because here you are posting on this forum.

I look at all of these promises, and I took hold of them and made them my own. I memorized many of them, and recited them regularly.
Mate, that’s all head knowledge! It’s all about heart knowledge, and your heart is so bound up, don’t you know that spiritual and self pride can cause all of this.

I tried to fight doubting thoughts or temptations to disbelieve. For a while, I believe it was working, and that God's promises were true for me... But, I realized that when I really looked at my life, it didn't seem so. I by no means have a bad life or difficult circumstances, it's just that I don't see any of God's hand in it, and it seems no better than if I had never met God... in fact, it seems that I am all the worse for having done so, as if the whole experience just loaded me with extra guilt and burdens that I never needed and cannot bear.
Mate a “double-minded” man becomes unstable in all their ways, are you unstable?

I see you as a person with “two souls”, which is one for our Lord Jesus Christ, and the other for the world, and that is why you have so much conflict in your life.

I hate to brush off the recommendations for books, but I've read so many and had so many explained to me through the years, I haven't encountered anything original in a long time.
Well, all those books read by you were to no avail, the books that I recommended to you is to heal and deliver your soul from the enemy. Your strongmen of your stronghold has put you in this position.

I guess ultimately I am holding to the truth that a tree is shown to be what it is by its fruits. If the fruits are good, the tree is good, and if the fruits are bad, the tree is bad.
Well we all know that fruit is patience, self-control, faithfulness, gentleness, goodness, and kindness, so you shine in all of these?

That's what God teaches us. I look at the fruits of my Christian life, and it seems that more than anything else its a series of failures, struggles, burdens, guilt, and opportunities that never were.
So, what you are telling me that life is like fine sand and it keeps on slipping through your fingers?

If you have failures, struggles, burdens, and guilt then you are influenced and being controlled by the power of darkness. You have allowed the “angel of light” to come into your life. And possibly you have allowed the wrong people to lay hands upon you, and they have imparted a wrong spirit into your soul.

Is God such a god that he establishes so few churches that really even try to live the life that he has for them? Why is it that so often we have to explain why the church is failing, why the church isn't what we should look at, and why the church seems to be a bad example? Isn't the church supposed stand until the end, even against the gates of hell?
What makes you think that our Lord Jesus Christ established all these churches that offend you. The churches are failing because our Lord Jesus Christ isn’t the church.

Mate, there are stacks of churches like this throughout the world.

Come on now mate, grow up, and let commonsense reign.

HIS CHURCH is where two or more are gathered in His Name.

When I read the Bible, it's so fellowship-oriented that I cannot help but feel that most churches don't have nearly the kind of interaction the Bible speaks of. And yet, when it seems that a church tries to do so, it becomes nearly cult-like and its members often leave and feel like they had to escape a horrible situation.
What Bible do you read---The Message?

Why is it that so many Christians seem to think that giving canned answers to deep issues is sufficient?
You mean why do seduced and deceived Christians give canned answers to deep issues?

Why do so many Christians at these churches focus so much time and effort into events and food and other things, but so little effort into people? Why is it that I can slip in and out of most churches I've ever been to without a single soul seeming to really even notice me? Why is it that I can stand even amongst a small group of believers and be the only one that no one seems to care about or talk to, and yet I know that if I were to ask around, others feel the same way.
DO you really want to know mate?

Why you see this is because our Lord Jesus Christ is talking to you. Can’t you see that? Can’t you see that the churches are false and controlled by Satan and his forces?

Mate, here you are badgering and berating yourself, when you are the CHURCH. You see evil and wrong, and you see all these false churches, what else do you need, beside a smack in the head with the four by four block of wood.:)

I haven't experienced any church yet where we are tightly bound together because of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead, we're just another social institution where people try to find like-minded people to become friends with.
I could take you to all the churches were I live and they are all the same---SELF-centred and not CHRIST-centred.

People would tell me not to look to the churches of man, or some such phrase, but they are not the churches of man, are they? Aren't they supposed to be God's people, the church? Isn't God supposed to be there, wherever two or more or gathered in his name? Is he just sitting idly by why so many people walk away and feel abandoned because his "church" is failing so much? I thought the church was the gathering of God's people in which fellowship and growth can happen so easily?
You are GOD’s people, so stop failing HIM!

I've got people telling me to ignore the institutions, just live with God and do his will. Then I got people telling me that one of the biggest problems with modern Christianity is the focus on self and the feeling that you can live the Christian life by yourself outside of God's church, the gathering of his people. Polar opposites seem to co-exist even within some of the same buildings, and few people can seem to agree on anything at times.
Mate there are more “out-of-church Christians” than what you can imagine.

You see mate, after reading Matthew 13, you will see that the churches are full six types of Christians: wayside, stony, thorny, 30-fold, 60-fold, and 100-fold.

And the first would be 80% of most churches.

Through all of this I'm waiting on and hoping and looking to God, and receiving nothing.
You are receiving nothing, because you are doing nothing.

Do you believe that Christian is that simple.

Mate, I’ve been fighting the enemy for fifty years.

Are people trying to tell me that God has been giving me all the answers and guidance and peace and help that I need, but that I just "missed it?" What, is God in the habit of extending himself in love to people in ways that they just never see and are never able to take advantage of? Wouldnt' a father be a pretty bad one if he held a gift for his son, but left it in a hidden place and didn't tell his son, and let his son walk away feeling that he had received nothing on his special birthday? Wouldn't any loving friend or parent virtually want to force us to see their extensions of love? If my friend seems to ignore an e-mail I send him about a serious problem he is experiencing, I'll call to let him know I sent it and to make sure he doesn't go through it alone. Is God the type of god to just let us miss it over and over again?
Mate, you are reading too much into your “head knowledge”, head knowledge lead you to the carnal brain, and the carnal mind is the battleground of Satan and his forces.

It’s “heart knowledge” that counts, and you get it into you heart, and you will be unstoppable.

We are not fighting against “flesh and blood” but against those beings of the unseen world.

People give stories of how God "tries" to do so much, but the person just fails to see it or take advantage of it. Is God so weak that he can't get someone's attention when he wants it? Is his love the kind of love that lets vitally important care and guidance go unnoticed? Any human friend or parent would quickly get your attention as best they could, but why does God supposedly not do so?
Our Lord Jesus Christ isn’t our nursemaid.

HE has been talking to the church for a long time, and as sad as it is, the church, that is, the Body of Christ has allow the world to come into the Body, including all the New Age garbage, and other religion’s practices, which has contaminated HIS FLOCK.

These are questions I cannot answer legitimately, and I struggle with them.
There not really questions mate, it’s were you are at the moment, and it’s up to us to bring you back to life, that is, raise you from the dead. It’s time that you rolled the stone away from your crypt, your broken heart.
 
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Inklingchick

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Okay, a thought-- it may not be hugely helpful--

When St. Paul knew he was about to die, what he said, to sum up his whole life and ministry, was "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith." Keeping the faith is in itself the victory-- just carrying on believing and hoping. And that means that it's sometimes really hard. We think of faith, hope, and love as nice little girls in party dresses, but I think they're more like enforcers-- burly guys with shaved heads, who come in when things get really ugly and bleak and chaotic.

The temptation is almost always to give up. Despair presents itself as the only reasonable and attractive option. But it is not accurate. It is not the appropriate response to reality, even if it feels like that. This is not the end of the story.

Also seriously consider Zoloft. Can't hurt. ; )

Susannah
 
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