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Featured When Jerusalem shall be safe

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by shilohsfoal, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Here's something to maybe consider. This of course doesn't agree with Premil, a position I hold,, yet this is something that just came to mind after having read and responded to your post above.

    Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle----And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle


    That's interesting, wouldn't you agree that it's interesting? And if this does connect, this further proves it is ludicrous to take anything in Zechariah 14:1-5 having to do with the events of 70 AD.
     
  2. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, exactly, and

    Zech 14 = Luke 21 = Rev 11-13 = Armageddon vs. Babylon = Roman attack of 1st century Jerusalem

    After 70 AD, the Lord fights and conquers the "nations vs. Jerusalem"... even as the Lord's Church spiritually converted that very same pagan empire in the 3rd century AD

    Zech 14 ends at Rev 19-20 with the onset of the Millennium

    Rev 20 continues with Ezek 38-39 with the epoch after the Millennium, when somehow something unleashes the Adversary to deceive most of humanity... to the extent that they apparently forget how obvious it had been for the past 1000 years that Jesus really was the Messiah of the actually-existing God in heaven

    Rev 20:9 reminds them and "brings it all back" so to speak, "oh, yeah... right... GOD... in the HEAVENS... yeah, well, I guess I got distracted" (or something vaguely like that)
     
  3. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, exactly, and

    Zech 14 = Luke 21 = Rev 11-13 = Armageddon vs. Babylon = Roman attack of 1st century Jerusalem

    After 70 AD, the Lord fights and conquers the "nations vs. Jerusalem"... even as the Lord's Church spiritually converted that very same pagan empire in the 3rd century AD

    Zech 14 ends at Rev 19-20 with the onset of the Millennium

    Rev 20 continues with Ezek 38-39 with the epoch after the Millennium, when somehow something unleashes the Adversary to deceive most of humanity... to the extent that they apparently forget how obvious it had been for the past 1000 years that Jesus really was the Messiah of the actually-existing God in heaven

    Rev 20:9 reminds them and "brings it all back" so to speak, "oh, yeah... right... GOD... in the HEAVENS... yeah, well, I guess I got distracted" (or something vaguely like that)
     
  4. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    After the Millennium, the "camp of the Saints", surely meaning the true spiritual Jerusalem, never falls...

    it gets surrounded... but holds out... like Bastogne in the Battle of the Bulge (for wont of worthier words)… or like Leningrad / St. Petersburg I suppose also

    the "camp of the Saints" stands until "the space cavalry arrives" with "orbital bombardment fire support" (Rev 20:9)

    only the physical apostate (from a Christian perspective) city fell, in 70 AD

    yet the Church is Prophesied to endure, even if under duress
     
  5. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    They wrote the Bible you use. ;)
     
  6. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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  7. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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  8. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you are aware that a lot of passages in the Bible are compressed, and that one then finds the missing details elsewhere. Could be the case with Revelation 20:7-9. Revelation 20:7-9 involves a little season. A little season would obviously involve a period of time. So in order to know what happens during this little season, we have to look elsewhere in order to fill in some of the missing details. BTW, if I'm not careful here I might end up talking myself out of Premil before it's over. Maybe that might be a good thing though--I don't know.
     
  9. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me then that we both have some issues we need to try and resolve. I think I can maybe resolve mine, but can you resolve yours though? What are some issues you need to try and reslove? I already showed in some posts to you what some of them are. As to issues I need to resolve, well per Zechariah 14:2 Jerusalem is obviously not safe at the time. But what about before the things in verse 2 start getting fulfilled? Could Jerusalem be considered safe in comparison?

    Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.


    and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Obviously these things have a starting point. But until that starting point initially begins, couldn't Jerusalem basically be said to be safely inhabited until these things start to occur?

    Look at this way. Even though Zechariah 14:2 has zero to do with the events of 70 AD, let's still use that as an example though. After Jerusalem was rebuilt, and that Christ came, and that Jerusalem was then destroyed in 70 AD, wouldn't it be safe to conclude that before Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, that during the time Christ was present, Jerusalem was safely inhabited at the time? And if yes, why can't the same logic work with Zechariah 14:2 before that verse initially begins to get fulfilled?
     
  10. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    WHEN do you see this scripture in Zech. taking place? I would place it in Rev.

    Revelation 17:12
    And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
     
  11. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I think it is ludicrous.
     
  12. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    What a novel idea! Actually read the word of God!
     
  13. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I, for one, will never desire to become indebted to the whole law!
     
  14. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Better hurry out then and be circumcised! But before you do, please read Galatians.
     
  15. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Every church I have attended over 60 some years has taught the 1000 year reign of Christ. And why not? It is in the bible!
     
  16. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    No one has ever been safe in jerusalem and willnot untill christ comes.
    If you notice in zech 14 after the city has been taken and the women raped and the occupants led into captivity, the Lord arrives.

    Zechariah 14:3 KJV: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
    Zechariah 14:4 KJV: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
    Zechariah 14:5 KJV: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
    Zechariah 14:6 KJV: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
    Zechariah 14:7 KJV: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
    Zechariah 14:8 KJV: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
    Zechariah 14:9 KJV: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
    Zechariah 14:10 KJV: All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
    Zechariah 14:11 KJV: And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

    So you see.Jerusalem isnt safe untill after jesus comes ,resurrects those in rev 20:4 and the 1000 year reign begins.So when Gog comes in 1000 years,the land would have healed from,the war of Armeggedon and the saints will still be in the land promised to them without walls or bars.A peaceful people who dwell safely .
    And as i said before,they were ressurected when Jesus came,they cant die again.
    God can reign down hell fire all over the land and all of Gogs army die,but those with Christ will not die.

    Revelation 20:6 KJV: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    I have no issues to clear up.
    Do you believe you will keep the Sabbath David?Ive heard it will be a good day to keep.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  17. dannheim

    dannheim Honey Badger

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    I am already circumcised. I am a Jewish person who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah as foretold in Holy Scripture.
     
  18. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Are you in israel?
     
  19. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, yes, revelation 20 versus 7 through 9. Clearly point us to. The gog and Magog passages in Ezekiel Chapters 38 to 9.

    I offer that you don't have to talk yourself out of your primale position. Only that you may have to qualify your remarks. Revelation 19 clearly shows some sort of Second coming like event prior to the Millennium. Yes, revelation, 20 clearly indicates the Great White throne arrives after the millennium

    I offer that revelation 19 depicts some sort of SPIRITUAL Second Coming. Whereas revelation 20 depics an actual physical CORPOREAL Second coming of Christ on God's throne that final judgment.

    If so, premial is not wrong. It is completely correct. If only partially so. Likewise, postmile is correct. Yes, only partially so. The complete picture combines both premil and Postmill.

    There is some sort of SPIRITUAL second coming in revelation 19, which ushers in the Millennium. Of the church Kingdom in. Political power. After which The Great White throne eventually arrives with Christ CORPOREALLY. Sitting up on it. The PHYSICAL and final second coming and final judgment.
     
  20. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you're not a Jew You don't have to.

    You can enter into the Churchley Kingdom of Christ through the Gentile door. You only have to keep. Noahide Commandments. Giving to Noah in Genesis 9. As interpreted by the church at the first Council of Jerusalem in about 50 ad.

    Jews who Convert to Christ, though. Must still maintain that or even as the Apostles and even as Saint Paul maintained the Torah in Acts 21
     
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