When Jerusalem shall be safe

[shilohsfoal]

We're not just talking about people though. Zechariah 14:11 indicates the city of Jerusalem itself, that there shall be no more utter destruction there. How can every wall in the land of Israel falling to the ground not add up to utter destruction?

Can you show me a single verse thats shows jerusalem or the occupants of Jerusalem being destroyed after Jesus comes?

 

[DavidPT]

Can you show me a single verse thats shows jerusalem or the occupants of Jerusalem being destroyed after Jesus comes?

No I can't, because if I could it would contradict what I'm arguing, thus why I'm rightly arguing, in my mind at least, that there is nothing in Ezekiel 38 that is fulfilled post the 2nd coming. I would think Jerusalem is in the land of Israel, and according to Ezekiel 38:20 in regards to that region it indicates the following---and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground---where to me that adds up to utter destruction. That contradicts what is promised to Jerusalem per Zechariah 14:11 though---and there shall be no more utter destruction. Based on that, the events in Ezekiel 38 have to be fulfilled first before the events in Zechariah 14:11 can be fulfilled.

 

[shilohsfoal]

No I can't, because if I could it would contradict what I'm arguing, thus why I'm rightly arguing, in my mind at least, that there is nothing in Ezekiel 38 that is fulfilled post the 2nd coming. I would think Jerusalem is in the land of Israel, and according to Ezekiel 38:20 in regards to that region it indicates the following---and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground---where to me that adds up to utter destruction. That contradicts what is promised to Jerusalem per Zechariah 14:11 though---and there shall be no more utter destruction. Based on that, the events in Ezekiel 38 have to be fulfilled first before the events in Zechariah 14:11 can be fulfilled.

Can you show me one tent in jerusalem falling down,in ezekiel 38?

 

[shilohsfoal]

No I can't, because if I could it would contradict what I'm arguing, thus why I'm rightly arguing, in my mind at least, that there is nothing in Ezekiel 38 that is fulfilled post the 2nd coming. I would think Jerusalem is in the land of Israel, and according to Ezekiel 38:20 in regards to that region it indicates the following---and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground---where to me that adds up to utter destruction. That contradicts what is promised to Jerusalem per Zechariah 14:11 though---and there shall be no more utter destruction. Based on that, the events in Ezekiel 38 have to be fulfilled first before the events in Zechariah 14:11 can be fulfilled.

If this verse in ezekiel 38 is fulfilled first and all of them who dwell in,jerusaem,are safe as ezekiel 38 :8 says.Then why are thewomen,in zech 14:2 raped?

Do you believe a woman is safe when she can,be raped ?

Zech 14:2 has to take place first or ezekiel 38:8 would be wrong.

 

[dqhall]

There are some on this board who have been taught the occupants of israel and Jerusalem dwell in safety.

Israel has half the crime rate of the US crime rate and less than half the US murder rate.
Israel vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

The Gospel of Matthew contains my favorite prophesy of the end times:

Matthew 24 (KJV)
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Israel has half the crime rate of the US crime rate and less than half the US murder rate.
Israel vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

The Gospel of Matthew contains my favorite prophesy of the end times:

Matthew 24 (KJV)
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Do yyou believe the women,in jerusalem,are safe while these muslims rape them?

Zechariah 14:2 KJV: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

 

[Douggg]

Do yyou believe the women,in jerusalem,are safe while these muslims rape them?

Zechariah 14:2 KJV: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Zechariah 14:2 takes place at the very end of the great tribulation. Around 7 years after Gog/Magog.

What is the opposite of war? Peace. Israel is not at war right now. It is peace and they are living in safety, not being persecuted for being Jews. It is, however, a tentative peace and safety because Israel has many enemies in the region.

It will be interesting what impact President Trumps peace plan has when he presents it soon.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Zechariah 14:2 takes place at the very end of the great tribulation. Around 7 years after Gog/Magog.

What is the opposite of war? Peace. Israel is not at war right now. It is peace and they are living in safety, not being persecuted for being Jews. It is, however, a tentative peace and safety because Israel has many enemies in the region.

It will be interesting what impact President Trumps peace plan has when he presents it soon.

The people in israel is not in,peace.The just bombed syria yet again.They awsys killing someone.
Ps.I just finished reading about the ametican jew who died there by a terrorist the other day.The killers family is to recieve acheck.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Zechariah 14:2 takes place at the very end of the great tribulation. Around 7 years after Gog/Magog.

What is the opposite of war? Peace. Israel is not at war right now. It is peace and they are living in safety, not being persecuted for being Jews. It is, however, a tentative peace and safety because Israel has many enemies in the region.

It will be interesting what impact President Trumps peace plan has when he presents it soon.

It really sounds like your saying israel safety is not up to God but its up to whoever decides to kill them.

Ezekiel 38:8 KJV: After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Are all of israel safe or not?
Do you believe God?

 

[Not David]

You just took aaay from the book of revelation.You cant even quotr what you just said because its not there.
Here is the litteral 1000 year reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 KJV: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Now you should write your own book and leave revelation alone.

The Church never taught about a real 1000 years. We are living in a symbolic 1000 years.

 

[Not David]

Do yyou believe the women,in jerusalem,are safe while these muslims rape them?

Zechariah 14:2 KJV: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

A lot of people are Muslim in Israel. Do all of them rape?

 

[dannheim]

We can not rule past fulfillment out based on our ignorance of it. But another point to consider is that Jerusalem will be trodden down until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. And Jesus tells us to preach the gospel to the gentiles until the end of the world.... Today's Jews are gentiles since God abolished circumcision. It made one a physical Jew and physical member of Israel.

Their are millions of Jews that would disagree with your statement that God abolished circumcision. What scripture by God himself that says so? The covenant with Abraham is still valid. Otherwise that would make God a liar and we all know that is impossible.

 

[Dave L]

Their are millions of Jews that would disagree with your statement that God abolished circumcision. What scripture by God himself that says so? The covenant with Abraham is still valid. Otherwise that would make God a liar and we all know that is impossible.

“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:3–4)

 

[dannheim]

Yeshua said that He has come fulfill the Torah (Law) not to abolish it. Does that not contradict Paul?

 

[Dave L]

Yeshua said that He has come fulfill the Torah (Law) not to abolish it. Does that not contradict Paul?

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. The New Covenant replaced them.

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)

 

[shilohsfoal]

A lot of people are Muslim in Israel. Do all of them rape?

Did you even read the bible verse?

 

[shilohsfoal]

The Church never taught about a real 1000 years. We are living in a symbolic 1000 years.

Your church doesnt teach the word of God then.Try reading Gods word sometime.Try reading it and believe what you read.

 

[Erik Nelson]

While I do tend to agree with the OP, but placing the events of Ezekiel 38:8 post the 2nd coming though, I don't see that working out realistically.

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


This would be meaning a time post the events in Ezekiel 38:8. How does verse 23 make sense if this is fulfilled a thousand years after the initial 2nd coming? The text says----and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

How could these nations not already clearly know that He is the LORD if these events occur post the 2nd coming some thousand years later?

For example. I live in the USA. Pretty much everyone in the USA knows who the current President is. Not only in the USA do pretty much everyone know who it is, but pretty much worldwide people know who the current President of the USA is. So one is to then believe that Christ can be physically present on the planet an entire thousand years, yet in the eyes of many nations during the thousand years, the LORD is not yet known to them, and that they don't yet know that He is the LORD? There is something vastly wrong with this picture if any of the events recorded in Ezekiel 38 are meaning a thousand years post the 2nd coming.

After the Millennium, Satan acting through Gog & Magog deceives all the nations into doubting "what had been obvious during the Millennium".

The nations forget all about the Millennium ever having already occurred in the past. Deceived, they doubt.

The "Final Coming" event when Jesus arrives on God's Great White Throne at Final Judgement (Rev 20:9-ff) re-reminds the nations that, "oh, yeah, OOPS, right God is God and Jesus is His Christ".

-----

Scripture unambiguously associates:

Ezekiel 38-39 = Gog & Magog vs. Israel & camp of the Saints = Revelation 20:7-9

---

Zechariah 9:9 = Triumphal Entry
Zechariah 11:12-13 = Judas' Betrayal
Zechariah 13:7-9 = Crucifixion, Apostles Scatter, Messiah cut off with nothing = Dan 9:26
Zechariah 14:1-2 = First Jewish-Roman War, 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem
Zechariah 14:5 = Christians' miraculous escape from doomed Jerusalem to Pella in 70 AD
Zechariah 14:6+ = Millennium (?)

 

[jgr]

Yeshua said that He has come fulfill the Torah (Law) not to abolish it. Does that not contradict Paul?

Christ pre-affirms Paul:

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[DavidPT]

After the Millennium, Satan acting through Gog & Magog deceives all the nations into doubting "what had been obvious during the Millennium".

The nations forget all about the Millennium ever having already occurred in the past. Deceived, they doubt.

The "Final Coming" event when Jesus arrives on God's Great White Throne at Final Judgement (Rev 20:9-ff) re-reminds the nations that, "oh, yeah, OOPS, right God is God and Jesus is His Christ".

-----

Scripture unambiguously associates:

Ezekiel 38-39 = Gog & Magog vs. Israel & camp of the Saints = Revelation 20:7-9

---

Zechariah 9:9 = Triumphal Entry
Zechariah 11:12-13 = Judas' Betrayal
Zechariah 13:7-9 = Crucifixion, Apostles Scatter, Messiah cut off with nothing = Dan 9:26
Zechariah 14:1-2 = First Jewish-Roman War, 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem
Zechariah 14:5 = Christians' miraculous escape from doomed Jerusalem to Pella in 70 AD
Zechariah 14:6+ = Millennium (?)

I tend to think you are sadly mistaken if you think Zechariah 14:1-5 somehow involves the events of 70 AD. IMO, Zechariah 14:2 is referring to the following for one.



Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Where that in turn appears to be referring to the following.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Where this same 42 months appears to be referring to the following.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And finally, all of these things in all of the above adding up to the great tribulation that precedes the 2nd coming. Notice in Zechariah 14 that the Lord doesn't initially fight against those nations coming against Jerusalem, but that He fights them because of what they have done to Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2.

On a different note, you might have a valid point when you said this, though I'm not entirely certain yet that you do-----"Scripture unambiguously associates:

Ezekiel 38-39 = Gog & Magog vs. Israel & camp of the Saints = Revelation 20:7-9"