When Jerusalem shall be safe

[Not David]

The beast is literally explained in bible

Yeah, and it is explained that the kingdom of God lives in us.

 

[iamlamad]

So, do you believe in a literal beast?

I have been 3 or 4 feet from a live bobcat in the woods. He or she was a real beast!
However, the Beast of Revelation 13 is a man we call the Antichrist.
The other beast we call the False Prophet.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Yeah, and it is explained that the kingdom of God lives in us.

Its also explained in thebible that the kingdom shall be taken,from the beast and given to the saints.

 

[Not David]

Its also explained in thebible that the kingdom shall be taken,from the beast and given to the saints.

Verse?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Verse?

Havnt you read about it?
I thought everyone who studies end time prophecy have read it?
Its very well known.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Spiritual 2nd coming? How is He to light up a dark sky as lightning flashing from East to West if it is spiritual? How is He to fight the battle of Armageddon fighting physical people if His coming is spiritual? I have never heard such an idea. Neither do I believe it.

acting from heaven through human intermediaries on earth, much the same as God has throughout human history?

 

[iamlamad]

acting from heaven through human intermediaries on earth, much the same as God has throughout human history?

Why not just believe like every other Christian, that in Rev. 19 that is His physical coming - just as it appears to be in the text?

 

[iamlamad]

Havnt you read about it?
I thought everyone who studies end time prophecy have read it?
Its very well known.

So you can't find the verse?

 

[DavidPT]

Well, yes, revelation 20 versus 7 through 9. Clearly point us to. The gog and Magog passages in Ezekiel Chapters 38 to 9.

I offer that you don't have to talk yourself out of your primale position. Only that you may have to qualify your remarks. Revelation 19 clearly shows some sort of Second coming like event prior to the Millennium. Yes, revelation, 20 clearly indicates the Great White throne arrives after the millennium

I offer that revelation 19 depicts some sort of SPIRITUAL Second Coming. Whereas revelation 20 depics an actual physical CORPOREAL Second coming of Christ on God's throne that final judgment.

If so, premial is not wrong. It is completely correct. If only partially so. Likewise, postmile is correct. Yes, only partially so. The complete picture combines both premil and Postmill.

There is some sort of SPIRITUAL second coming in revelation 19, which ushers in the Millennium. Of the church Kingdom in. Political power. After which The Great White throne eventually arrives with Christ CORPOREALLY. Sitting up on it. The PHYSICAL and final second coming and final judgment.

I'm starting to get the impression you might be Postmil then. And if so, Postmil IMO, of all of the postions, such as Amil and Premil, is the least likely position to be correct. It's 2018, and if Postmil is true, this would indicate that at this point in time, the bodily 2nd coming of Christ can't occur until sometime after 3018. Can't imagine this world continuing that long.

As to Revelation 19 and a spiritual coming, how would a spiritual coming fulfill Revelation 19:20?

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This says the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him---These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

How were they taken and by whom were they taken, and by whom were they cast alive into a LOF?

 

[DavidPT]

Verse?

Can that verse not be found in Daniel 7?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I'm starting to get the impression you might be Postmil then. And if so, Postmil IMO, of all of the postions, such as Amil and Premil, is the least likely position to be correct. It's 2018, and if Postmil is true, this would indicate that at this point in time, the bodily 2nd coming of Christ can't occur until sometime after 3018. Can't imagine this world continuing that long.

As to Revelation 19 and a spiritual coming, how would a spiritual coming fulfill Revelation 19:20?

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This says the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him---These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

How were they taken and by whom were they taken, and by whom were they cast alive into a LOF?

You are aware there are other prophecies cconcerning the beasts destruction and how his kingdom,is given to the saints in,rev 20?

Daniel 7:23 KJV: Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Daniel 7:24 KJV: And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Daniel 7:25 KJV: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 7:26 KJV: But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Daniel 7:27 KJV: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Daniel 7:28 KJV: Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

I can tell you this also.If you are as old as i am,YYou have witnessed the little horn subdue three ofthe others to take control of the seven,hilled city.

 

[DavidPT]

You are aware there are other prophecies cconcerning the beasts destruction and how his kingdom,is given to the saints in,rev 20?

Daniel 7:23 KJV: Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Daniel 7:24 KJV: And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Daniel 7:25 KJV: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 7:26 KJV: But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Daniel 7:27 KJV: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Daniel 7:28 KJV: Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

I can tell you this also.If you are as old as i am,YYou have witnessed the little horn subdue three ofthe others to take control of the seven,hilled city.

I'm on the same page with you in regards to Daniel 7. Not certain what you mean by the following though? "You have witnessed the little horn subdue three ofthe others to take control of the seven,hilled city."

So who are these three then? And what is this 7 hilled city in your view? I only ask because it's debatable about what these things are referring to, thus not everyone are in agreement about these things.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I'm on the same page with you in regards to Daniel 7. Not certain what you mean by the following though? "You have witnessed the little horn subdue three ofthe others to take control of the seven,hilled city."

So who are these three then? And what is this 7 hilled city in your view? I only ask because it's debatable about what these things are referring to, thus not everyone are in agreement about these things.

Ok.First let us edtablish te region the saints in the text are to recieve.
My answer is the promised land which boundaries are the eurprates to the nile.
Do you agree the land promised to the saints indaniel 7 and rev 20 is in the middle east?

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, "and to seeds," meaning many, but "and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

 

[DavidPT]

Ok.First let us edtablish te region the saints in the text are to recieve.
My answer is the promised land which boundaries are the eurprates to the nile.
Do you agree the land promised to the saints indaniel 7 and rev 20 is in the middle east?

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, "and to seeds," meaning many, but "and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

I fully agree the promised land in question is meaning in the middle east.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I fully agree the promised land in question is meaning in the middle east.

Would you agree,the majority of the people who founded the state of israel traveld from the north,west into the beautiful land via the Mediterranean Sea and have become a great(strong) state?

Daniel 8:9 KJV: And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Would you agree Israel is different (divese)than the nations it shares the middle east with?

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings.

Would you agree Israels appearance is more stout than,its fellows?

Daniel 7:20 KJV: And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Would you agree in 1967,israel defeated ,Syria,Jordan,and Egypt and took of control of the old city of jerusalem which situated on seven hills?

Revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

 

[shilohsfoal]

This is a map of the middle east .
It shows the rise and fall of kingdoms within it and invaders from the west such as Macedonia to Great Briton.
Notice the modern states come up from the fall of great briton including the little state of israel.

 

[Not David]

Havnt you read about it?
I thought everyone who studies end time prophecy have read it?
Its very well known.

So you don't have a verse.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I fully agree the promised land in question is meaning in the middle east.

Lastly,
Daniel 7:21 KJV: I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Do you agree,that before Jesus comes,many of his disciples willbe put to death in Israel ?Their own relatives will cause them,tobe put to death.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
Matthew 10:6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 10:7 As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.'
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
Matthew 10:9 Do not carry any gold or silver or copper in your belts.
Matthew 10:10 Take no bag for the road, or second tunic, or sandals, or staff; for the worker is worthy of his provisions.
Matthew 10:11 Whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy and stay at his house until you move on.
Matthew 10:12 As you enter the house, greet its occupants.
Matthew 10:13 If the home is worthy, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you.
Matthew 10:14 And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.
Matthew 10:15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Matthew 10:16 Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Matthew 10:17 But beware of men; for they will hand you over to their councils and flog you in their synagogues.
Matthew 10:18 On My account, you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.
Matthew 10:19 But when they hand you over, do not worry about how to respond or what to say. In that hour you will be given what to say.
Matthew 10:20 For it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Matthew 10:21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rise against their parents and have them put to death.
Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

All this happens in Israel in the 3 1/2 years prior to the coming of the Son of man and the saints who do this in israel are the same saints who are raised in the first resurrection and inherit the land promised to them,forever.

PS.You wont read about Gog coming before Christ in the gospel because as the book of revelations points out.That prophecy takrs place 1000 years after the coming of the Son of man.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Why not just believe like every other Christian, that in Rev. 19 that is His physical coming - just as it appears to be in the text?

Nobody believes in literal beasts of the land or beasts of the sea. Everyone recognizes that John's visions. Are spiritual in nature? Figures that John envision. Capture the spiritual essence. Of actual terrestrial events and entities. I agree. For example, the beast of the sea represents the Pagan Roman Empire. The Beast of the sea does not exist on Earth to Pagan Roman Empire did. Similarly. The Christian conquering figure. Of Revelation 19. May have never existed on Earth. But, say, the Christian Emperor Constantine. Did And he was victorious and did bring about the Christian Council of victory, the Council of Nicea.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I'm starting to get the impression you might be Postmil then. And if so, Postmil IMO, of all of the postions, such as Amil and Premil, is the least likely position to be correct. It's 2018, and if Postmil is true, this would indicate that at this point in time, the bodily 2nd coming of Christ can't occur until sometime after 3018. Can't imagine this world continuing that long.

As to Revelation 19 and a spiritual coming, how would a spiritual coming fulfill Revelation 19:20?

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This says the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him---These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

How were they taken and by whom were they taken, and by whom were they cast alive into a LOF?

Well thanks for your questions. Once again. Nobody believes in a literal actual physical beast. So why believe in a literal actual physical Christian conquering figure. The Beast of the sea symbolizes the Pagan Roman Empire. Exactly similarly the Christian conquering figure image represents something else. I offer that it represents. To Christian conquering Emperor Constantine. Who brought about the Christian Council of victory the Council of nicea?