When is lying okay?

[simonthezealot]

Are any lies okay?
Do you ever lie?

 

[Jessica Lauren]

No lies are not okay.
Yes I lie. I'm terrible at it though!

If anyone says they don't, they're lying lol!

 

[DD2008]

Are any lies okay?
Do you ever lie?

Well, Abraham lied about Sarah being his sister. Jacob lied about the birthright. Raphael seemingly lied about his identity, but in reality did not because of the nature of the thing. Judith lied to the Assyrians.

I always thought most of these cases were examples of "imperfection" if you will.

God told us not to lie, so we should listen to Him and ask forgiveness if we ever do lie.

 

[sunlover1]

Are any lies okay?

ummm... I'm going to say yeah.

Do you ever lie?

Umm. Does that include lies of silence or omission?

Gee thanks for the thread simon.
I might have to do some self examination..
wait, no that's narcissistic.
Oh my.

No lies are not okay.
Yes I lie. I'm terrible at it though!

I turn red!

If anyone says they don't, they're lying lol!

I'm thinking so too.

 

[Sphinx777]

A lie (also called prevarication), is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one has not reasonably ascertained to be true with the intention that it be taken for the truth by oneself or someone else. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly.

Lying is typically used to refer to deceptions in oral or written communication. Other forms of deception, such as disguises or forgeries, are generally not considered lies, though the underlying intent may be the same. However, even a true statement can be considered a lie if the person making that statement is doing so to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being untruthful rather than the truthfulness of the statement itself that is considered.

The philosophers Saint Augustine, as well as Thomas Aquinas and Immanuel Kant, condemned all lying. However, Thomas Aquinas also had an argument for lying. According to all three, there are no circumstances in which one may lie. One must be murdered, suffer torture, or endure any other hardship, rather than lie, even if the only way to protect oneself is to lie. Each of these philosophers gave several arguments against lying, all compatible with each other. Among the more important arguments are:

1. Lying is a perversion of the natural faculty of speech, the natural end of which is to communicate the thoughts of the speaker...

2. When one lies, one undermines trust in society...

The Old Testament and New Testament of the Bible both contain statements that God cannot lie (Num 23:19, Ps 89:35, Hab. 2:3, Heb 6:13–18).

Various passages of the Bible feature exchanges that are conditionally critical of lying (Prov 6:16–19, Ps. 5:6), (Lev 19:11, Pr. 14:5, Pr. 30:6, Zep 3:13 ), (Isa 28:15, Da 11:27). Most famously, in the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not bear false witness" (Exodus 20:2-17, Deuteronomy 5:6-21), a specific reference to perjury.

Other passages feature exchanges where lying is conditionally promoted. Old Testament accounts of lying include:

* The Hebrew midwives lied to the king of Egypt rather than carry out his order to kill all male Hebrew babies; the midwives did this because they “feared God” (Exodus 1:15–20).

* Rahab lied to the king of Jericho about hiding the Hebrew spies (Joshua 2:4–5) and was not killed with those who were disobedient because of her faith (Hebrews 11:31).

* Delilah repeatedly accused Samson of lying to her (Jg. 16:10, 13) as she interrogated him about the source of his strength.

* Abraham instructs his wife, Sarai, to lie to the Egyptians and say that she is his sister (Gen 12:10), which leads to the Lord punishing the Egyptians (Gen 12:17–19).

In the New Testament, Jesus refers to the Devil as the father of lies (John 8:44) and Paul commands christians "Do not lie to one another" (Colossians 3:9, Cf.Leviticus 19:11).

Whereas most Christian theologians conclude that the Bible does not contain any intentional untruths, some scholars believe differently. Among those who conclude that the Bible contains lies and intentional untruths is Thomas Jefferson. He edited his own version of the Bible and omitted what he considered to be falsehoods. In describing the Bible, Jefferson wrote of "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture", "roguery", "dupes and impostors", "corruptor" and "falsifications".

 

[simonthezealot]

No lies are not okay.
Yes I lie. I'm terrible at it though!

If anyone says they don't, they're lying lol!

Welcome to GT, it's nice getting fresh faces round here...

I agree with your post, though I have done my best at not doing it over the past couple years, the by ommission part is very difficult...
I will say when I catch myself doing it I am grieved as I know my LORD is.

Dr. Mac once said about rahab lying to save the soldiers..."just imagine what God would have done to save them, had she not stepped outside the parameters of Gods will for us" that has always stuck with me, ya know...HIS providence and sovreignty over every situation.

 

[Kristos]

Are any lies okay?
Do you ever lie?

I think I mostly lie to myself - which is not good.

When I lie to others, it's usually to protect them or their feelings. This area seems to be full of gray areas. I suppose the best way to get rid of the gray is to add light, which I sometimes try to do through prayer and confession.

 

[sunlover1]

A lie (also called prevarication), is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one has not reasonably ascertained to be true with the intention that it be taken for the truth by oneself or someone else. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly.

Lying is typically used to refer to deceptions in oral or written communication. Other forms of deception, such as disguises or forgeries, are generally not considered lies, though the underlying intent may be the same. However, even a true statement can be considered a lie if the person making that statement is doing so to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being untruthful rather than the truthfulness of the statement itself that is considered.

The philosophers Saint Augustine, as well as Thomas Aquinas and Immanuel Kant, condemned all lying. However, Thomas Aquinas also had an argument for lying. According to all three, there are no circumstances in which one may lie. One must be murdered, suffer torture, or endure any other hardship, rather than lie, even if the only way to protect oneself is to lie. Each of these philosophers gave several arguments against lying, all compatible with each other. Among the more important arguments are:

1. Lying is a perversion of the natural faculty of speech, the natural end of which is to communicate the thoughts of the speaker.
2. When one lies, one undermines trust in society.

The Old Testament and New Testament of the Bible both contain statements that God cannot lie (Num 23:19, Ps 89:35, Hab. 2:3, Heb 6:13–18).

Various passages of the Bible feature exchanges that are conditionally critical of lying (Prov 6:16–19, Ps. 5:6), (Lev 19:11, Pr. 14:5, Pr. 30:6, Zep 3:13 ), (Isa 28:15, Da 11:27). Most famously, in the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not bear false witness" (Exodus 20:2-17, Deuteronomy 5:6-21), a specific reference to perjury.

Other passages feature exchanges where lying is conditionally promoted. Old Testament accounts of lying include:

* The Hebrew midwives lied to the king of Egypt rather than carry out his order to kill all male Hebrew babies; the midwives did this because they “feared God” (Exodus 1:15–20).
* Rahab lied to the king of Jericho about hiding the Hebrew spies (Joshua 2:4–5) and was not killed with those who were disobedient because of her faith (Hebrews 11:31).
* Delilah repeatedly accused Samson of lying to her (Jg. 16:10, 13) as she interrogated him about the source of his strength.
* Abraham instructs his wife, Sarai, to lie to the Egyptians and say that she is his sister (Gen 12:10), which leads to the Lord punishing the Egyptians (Gen 12:17–19).

In the New Testament, Jesus refers to the Devil as the father of lies (John 8:44) and Paul commands christians "Do not lie to one another" (Colossians 3:9, Cf.Leviticus 19:11).

Whereas most Christian theologians conclude that the Bible does not contain any intentional untruths, some scholars believe differently. Among those who conclude that the Bible contains lies and intentional untruths is Thomas Jefferson. He edited his own version of the Bible and omitted what he considered to be falsehoods. In describing the Bible, Jefferson wrote of "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture", "roguery", "dupes and impostors", "corruptor" and "falsifications".

Interesting, and what are your thoughts sir?

And consider this dilemna:
You are married and you love your wife
as Christ said, but you dont care for
her company. In fact she is a gross liar,
hates your children and your friends,
most likely hates you...
Are you lying when you pretend to enjoy
her company... when she asks for her due?
Are you lying when you bite your tongue
when she calls herself a '*itch'?... when
you smile at her as you walk in the door
from work, give her a hug AS IF you felt it..
etc etc..

I've considered this sort of scenario before
and wondered what the Christian response
would be.

Or you could reverse it and say it's the husband
whos the jerk and the wife who 'honors' him with
her mouth and actions but not with her heart.

 

[simonthezealot]

To the question...
When is lying okay?
I once heard a catholic say right b4 confession.

 

[Kristos]

it's okay when it involves the words fat and jeans.

 

[simonthezealot]

lol

 

[SummaScriptura]

In your standard 66-book Bible there are two instances where lies are told which are unambiguosly endorsed as the right thing to have done. In Exodus 1 the Jewish midwives lie to Pharoah in order to save the Hebrew male children's lives. The midvives are subsequently blessed by God for having done this.

In Joshua 2, Rahab the harlot lies to the King of Jericho in order to save the lives of the Hebrew spies who have come to assess the city's strengths/weakneses for the coming conquest. Rahab is called a woman of faith for having done so in Hebrews 11.

These events tell us it is alright to lie in order to save lives. This is what many Christians and others did in Northern Europe during WWII in order to protect Jews from the Nazis. Because of these Biblical events, and because of those universally lauded actions of good people resisting Nazism, I am 100% on board with lying to save life.

And for those of us who enjoy a thicker Bible... there is the lie told by the good angel Raphael in the story of the Book of Tobit. Raphael lies to conceal his angelic origin in order to accompany Tobias (a righteous Jew living under gentile rule in Diaspora) on an ostensibly dangerous journey transporting money across the country; this one, undoubtedly muddies the water a bit and I'm not entirely sure how to process it as I'm new to Tobit and need some more time to digest its message. (I do not, however, toss out Tobit because of this difficulty).

 

[SummaScriptura]

it's okay when it involves the words fat and jeans.

I'm shocked!

...and amused!

Yes, I confess, I have told that lie many times.

 

[GoodNewsJournalist]

it's okay when it involves the words fat and jeans.

Which begs the question,

God says in his word, when we are married, we do less for God because we exist to bring our spouses needs before his, and rightfully so.

Did he mean, he is okay with a Guy to say to his wife,

"No hun, you don't look fat in those jeans, you're beautiful,"

Even though she's a size 12 trying to put on a size 8 jeans!

 

[simonthezealot]

In Joshua 2, Rahab the harlot lies to the King of Jericho in order to save the lives of the Hebrew spies who have come to assess the city's strengths/weakneses for the coming conquest. Rahab is called a woman of faith for having done so in Hebrews 11.

.

I think rahab was rewarded for her faith NOT for lying...Imagine what God would have done had she stayed within His parameters?

 

[united4Peace]

I lied last week when I returned something in order to buy the same item at another store cheaper

 

[SummaScriptura]

I think rahab was rewarded for her faith NOT for lying...Imagine what God would have done had she stayed within His parameters?

I don't think so. Throughout the entire chapter of Hebrews 11, the writer is giving exposition upon the Old Testament. I think the passage in Hebrews is saying she was a woman of faith because of the story as told in the Book of Joshua. She did a good thing.

 

[GoodNewsJournalist]

I lied last week when I returned something in order to buy the same item at another store cheaper

Did the other store have a price beating policy?

 

[simonthezealot]

Interesting, and what are your thoughts sir?

And consider this dilemna:
You are married and you love your wife
as Christ said, but you dont care for
her company. In fact she is a gross liar,
hates your children and your friends,
most likely hates you...
Are you lying when you pretend to enjoy
her company... when she asks for her due?
Are you lying when you bite your tongue
when she calls herself a '*itch'?... when
you smile at her as you walk in the door
from work, give her a hug AS IF you felt it..
etc etc..

I've considered this sort of scenario before
and wondered what the Christian response
would be.

Or you could reverse it and say it's the husband
whos the jerk and the wife who 'honors' him with
her mouth and actions but not with her heart.

This person clearly married an unyoked...Best advice is to rejoice again I say rejoice in the LORD and let that light shine onto the other...
But yes that appears to be a very tough scenario.
I think I would speak scriptural truth each time there actions offended me even knowing that it may even cause more hate...
Yet trust in the LORD to either move in them or do something, in His time.

 

[Strong in Him]

Are any lies okay?

My immediate reaction is 'no'.
On the other hand, Rahab hid the spies, the Ten Boom family (and others)hid Jews. They were lies, or deception, which is much the same thing, but they were necessary. If Corrie had been asked "have you seen any Jews?" and replied, "yes, we have 6 hiding upstairs", she would have betrayed a lot of people.
Also, I have heard of people in hospital who were dying but the relatives didn't want them to be told because they wanted them to have hope, and not give up or die in fear. I don't know what I'd do in that situation; if I were a nurse, I'd probably have to go along with the family's wishes.

Do you ever lie?

Yes. I do feel I am generally honest - like saying if I've been given too much change, for example. But I occasionally exaggerate incidents, or maybe misreport something, and don't always correct people if they get the wrong impression.