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Featured When is a pastor's behaviour arrogant?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Alicia Schout, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    No, I still disagree.

    Raising an issue with someone's spouse makes the situation more complicated; and it makes it very difficult to respond to. In psychology this is called triangulation, and it's manipulative; not loving at all.

    I had a similar situation this week; not with my spouse, but someone had gone to someone else with a complaint, and that complaint was relayed to me. And as I said to the person in the middle, it's very difficult for me now to know how to even speak to the person with the complaint, when clearly they felt they couldn't speak to me in the first place!
     
  2. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    The bible has nothing good to say about pastors, study the bible and you'll see, you also shouldn't depend on pastors for the truth, a lot of times they lie, to get money or to make you think your sins aren't as bad as other peoples.
     
  3. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    "The gifts he gave were that some would be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ." - Ephesians 4:11-13
     
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  4. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    Quite the opposite, actually.
     
  5. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Newbie Supporter

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    There can be different reasons why someone feels he or she can not speak in person with someone.

    The middle person could help with that, perhaps, if the middler does have rapport with you and the complainer. God does have us helping one another.

    Often I get things cleared up about someone, if I take it to the LORD in prayer. But there might also be a person whom I trust more than the person who is a problem for me; so . . . like how I go to God, I might first go to someone I know is mature and wise. And that mentor also might be able to straighten me out, without it going any further.

    I think what works best is you take time to share personally with someone so you get to know one another, and then you are free to offer one another helpful things. But trying to communicate with a busy leader when we rarely talk with each other can be counterproductive. Jesus spent a lot of time, each day, personally with His disciples; so they had a chance to get to know Him and how they stood with Him. And, of course, Jesus knew who He was talking with.

    Do you have small home groups? . . . where people can get to know one another so they know better how to communicate with and help each other?
     
  6. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    We do, but not many people go to them. But then, they are new; when I got here there were none, and I have started that. So I hope people will be encouraged over time to be more involved.
     
  7. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Newbie Supporter

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    @Paidiske > I just thought of something. If someone goes to someone else first, and the middler comes to you, this can give you time to pray about whatever the complaint is, and possibly have time to get some insight from God, before you go to the person. Then you can show the person that you mean to understand well and be helpful.

    And the middler might give you some insight.

    I have had personal complaints come my way. And I did not know where they came from. But I prayed and then saw the point, and I would quietly trust God to correct me. In one case, people then complained about how I corrected myself!! lolololol But I prayed and made more adjustments which got me more into caring about how other people felt.

    But God will correct us better than people may want :) Because an amount of complaining is connected with people not getting their own way. So, the correction they might want can be not really how God would correct us :)

    So, yes, it might be an interesting adventure to find out what that third-person complainer's motives are.
     
  8. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    Quote it then, then I won't know your lying.
     
  9. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's

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    Pastors such as we have institutionalized in mainstream Churches, are not really a Biblical prerequisite for anything. If a Pastor is being arrogant, I would say get people to talk to him just as you would anyone else. If he won't listen, consider going elsewhere.
     
  10. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    I agree... if one wants to chat.. talk about what it is that bothers you that they do. To many times we see our self when we dislike dont agree or the like :) Now there is ONE that all will answer to. Take it to HIM. He is REALLY good at this and He can whisper so sweetly.. that we listen
     
  11. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Scripture says nothing about pastors ruling over anyone whatsoever.
     
  12. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    The institutional church takes its structure from the world instead of God, its pastors/ministers/priests etc equating to managers, COEs, etc.

    Church members are the taught that anyone not obeying these people are in rebellion against God. In that way, good Christians can be easily manipulated and controlled by guilt. They live in fear that if they say a word against their "leaders" then God will punish them.

    I have watched this being done in church after church!

    I recall an elders and leaders meeting decades ago when I questioned a decision that was being made. A fellow deacon pointed out that we should all be in fear of the "Lord's anointed" and must not challenge them. I pointed out that I much rather feared the Lord if I kept quiet when wrong was being done.

    John6v 66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

    Here we see the complete freewill that the disciples had with Jesus. In no way did Jesus use guilt or compulsion over his disciples, they being free at any time to leave, as some did.

    68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

    They followed him because he delivered the truth in love, not just theology.

    When the disciples started talking about power and control, they were swiftly rebuked.-
    Mark10v35And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou should do for us whatsoever we shall desire. 36And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? 37They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
    Typical of many carnal Christians, they wanted to be in a position of power and control over others!

    38But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of..............
    ............41And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.
    Displeased most likely because they also wanted the same!

    42But Jesus called them to him, and said unto them, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them; and their great ones exercise lordship over them. 43But so shall it not be among you:......
    There you have it. "It shall not be so among you"!
    Unfortunately, the hierarchical government of the ekklesia of God is entirely based on the Lordship by the princes of the gentiles etc. the worldly system that Jesus utterly rejected.

    .....but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your servant: 44And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be slave of all.
    Church leaders will always claim to be servants of their members, a claim so obviously and provably false.
    If the members of a congregation have to ask their leader/pastor for permission before doing anything, then that pastor is your master, not your servant!
     
  13. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Controlling people out of guilt or appeal to religious authority is a form of spiritual abuse, and any church leader who does so is in the wrong.

    And I say that as a priest in an institutional church.
     
  14. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    A quick reminder: This is a no debate forum. Debate of theological issues is not allowed. Please address your comments to the OP.

     
  15. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That’s quite negative and a very general statement. There are a lot of good pastors.

    Maybe people should be talking about situations and not grouping all people in one bucket. It’s quite ungodly
     
  16. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    Well, in my denomination the ordained minister appointed by the Synode is sent out to certain land or country.
     
  17. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    Which probably means that the elders and/or the Synod could get rid of a minister or, before that, have a chat to him, if his behaviour is truly a problem.

    But I've seen no suggestion that the minister has actually done anything wrong here -- just some vague suggestions of "arrogance," and a whole lot of totally unscriptural attacks on the legitimate authority of pastors.

    For that reason I'm bowing out of this thread.
     
  18. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    I'm impressed that it has to do with personality. A matter of character. I won't call this issue personality conflict, even for some it might means a personality conflict. I would like to have advise to play a positive christian-liked role in this matter.
     
  19. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    We are here to help each other. It's not about pointing fingers to one another. I do believe I have a teachable spirit. So I want to learn how to cope with matters like these, without offending anyone.
     
  20. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus

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    Stop paying their salary.
     
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