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Featured When is a pastor's behaviour arrogant?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Alicia Schout, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    Does the Bible gives direction toward the behaviour of pastors? What can christians do to be a postive influence to arrogant pastors?
     
  2. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    Are you in any position where you should be telling the pastor off (fellow-pastor, elder, etc.)?
     
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  3. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Can you give us an example of the sort of behaviour that you're seeing as arrogant?
     
  4. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yagna Mukkamala Supporter

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    Hello Alicia, yes we do have scriptures in the New Testament that govern pastors, overseers, deacons and other elders. 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-16 are good places to start. If your pastor is indeed arrogant then the elders in your church must approach him gently. If that fails scriptures teach us to rebuke such people and maybe even expel them. The deacons and elders of your church should prayerfully decide on an appropriate course of action. Hope that was helpful. Peace in Christ :).
     
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  5. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    Behaviour that is not to be qualified as a humble servant.
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    I know of a situation where the pastor has been acting unilaterally in a way that many/most of the congregants are unhappy with. And he has removed all elders that disagree with him.
     
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  7. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    That's really very vague.

    A pastor has a level of authority, and a leadership role in the church, and sometimes that can come across as arrogant when that isn't what the pastor intends (and when being a doormat would be harmful to the well being of the church).

    I'm sure some people think some of what I do is arrogant, sometimes, but they don't necessarily see the reasons why.

    That doesn't mean that it's not possible to actually be arrogant in a way which is harmful in that role; of course it is. But I think the question of whether that's really what's happening needs to be explored first, before you can decide what (if anything) to do about it.
     
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  8. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    Thank you so much for your reply
     
  9. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    If the half or more of the members of a church is not happy with their pastor, is this a reason to take measurement?
     
  10. Alicia Schout

    Alicia Schout Member

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    I really do agree with your statement. Also it could be a character aspect (the fleshy man) and not an spirit.
    There is a Dutch saying that goes as follows:
    every birth sings according to......
    This saying means that men in general does conduct themselves as they have been reared.
     
  11. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    Unfortunately, most of the ones unhappy with him have left because if they try to talk to him about it, he is polite but dismissive.
     
  12. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    Hmmm. What kind of denominational structure are you part of? If it's THAT bad, bishops, elders, synods, fellow-pastors, and congregational meetings would normally step in (depending on the denominational structure).

    In your denomination, who chooses the pastor?
     
  13. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    There's a reason why that's not possible in most denominations.
     
  14. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I think humility is the opposite of arrogance, emulate that.
     
  15. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Depends. Is it teaching related or just personality conflicts or that people do t like him.

    If you are vague you will probably get vague answers.
     
  16. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    He has dissmissed all elders who disagree with him, church members who have tried to talk with him have been politly brush off and have as a result left the church.
    I would suggest making an appointment to talk with him and ask him about the dissmissal of elders and the leaving of church members, why in his opinion did the leave?
    If you are unsatisfied with his answers, leave.
     
  17. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Newbie Supporter

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    Short answer >
    I, of course, can be the problem . . . how I take things the pastor does and says. So, first I need to pray and see how God corrects me and makes me clear. In my case, my pastor might show signs of not being as mature and real as he needs to be, but I know he has good mentors to help him. They help me :) So, to be basic, make sure you have really sound people to help you, in any case.

    In case you care to read more in detail about what I think >

    A pastor does need to act to make decisions with authority, at times. And ones might not like this. And if the pastor is right, it is not a democratic matter of how many agree or do not agree. Also > look at how Peter was wrong and the leaders with him went along with him; they were unanimous, and wrong > Galatians 2:11-13. Everyone can agree and all not agree with the Holy Spirit.

    And yes our Apostle Paul expected people to see that it was wrong and not go along. Jesus makes us His sheep, even, able to tell the difference > John 10:1-30. And Hebrews 13:17 is clear that God expects us to obey those who rule over us; but . . . I offer . . . this means obeying ones whom God approves.

    So, in case you have a leader who is wrong and nothing really effective is done about it . . . I would say you are obligated to in prayer seek however God corrects you and then find whomever God does approve to rule you . . . so we are obeying Hebrews 13:17; and 1 Timothy 3:1-10 gives basic standards for who qualifies just to be considered to be trusted to "take care of the church of God".

    I would say you should be able to tell if someone's example is helping you to become more and more humble like Jesus and all-loving. If a leader's example is not so helping you, even obviously, then either you are the problem or the leader is . . . or both.

    And don't go by only what everyone else is doing or what most people are saying. Who is really helping you to become humble? Talk with someone who is a good example and mature in your church, if you have really sound and mature people with you; or find ones elsewhere and see how they share with you.

    And as you mature in real humility and personally submitting to God, now you can help a pastor with your example. If you have been obeying God, yourself, it is likely He has you with a pastor who has helped you to mature in Jesus. And so . . . though . . . at times, even your exemplary pastor can slip and mess up; and then is when you can help him or her . . . in return, you might say . . . helping your pastor with how he or she has helped you :) And someone approved will likely benefit from and appreciate you being there for him or her when he or she is the one who needs correction and help. This would be in more personal sharing, though, I would say; but for something more in the pastor's dealing with the church, you might have a talk with whomever the pastor has for mentors . . . ones whom the pastor trusts and who have helped and even been able to correct him or her.

    But if you do not know your church people well enough to know how to help your own pastor, or who is helping the pastor, I would consider that you need to get more with God and make more effort to know the ones who are leading; and get to know their mentors so they can help you, also. And a leader's spouse can know how to handle an issue with the leader, and who else helps the leader.

    It can be that a church has mature members who are not even leaders, but they are so essential for the church to be healthy and able to support newly saved believers and others growing in the church. And they might know the pastor is not as with it, but they know it takes time to grow and they are depending on God. And so, they have hope for any and all sorts of people who are members and who go there; because God uses their example. So, I would say, be strong in love which "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7), and know that you can help any person who is a Christian, by your growing example :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  18. Mollie1

    Mollie1 Legend Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON


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    This Thread

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    Christian Advice


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    MOD HAT OFF
     
  19. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I really liked the rest of your post, but I'm not so sure about this bit. It's not really fair to expect a clergy spouse to intervene in your issues with your pastor. Our spouses already put up with an enormous amount, it's not fair to also make them the complaints department!
     
  20. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Newbie Supporter

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    I agree. But the spouse is a special resource person who knows the pastor well. Also, the spouse can know who might be best for talking with the pastor, if this is needed. And I think this would need to be in a family rapport relationship of the spouse and whoever has a concern, plus not be a thing to do every so many days.

    The way this works, for me, is I might talk with someone close to the pastor and the person tells me what can help me, and that is enough. If it's a real concern, I'm probably going to hear, "we know", and they are taking care of it. Because a real issue will effect the pastor in various ways with various people. And having a talk like this does not take more than a few minutes, if I have prepared in prayer first.

    Now . . . I would be concerned about how much a spouse is putting up with, since Jesus says "you will find rest for your souls," in Matthew 11:29; plus, our Apostle Paul says,

    "No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

    So, I need to be sensitive to how much a spouse is dealing with, and see if the spouse is being blessed so the person is ready to talk with me. If the person is under too much to handle, I then might consider not bringing it up. And then, depending on the issue, decide what I need to do. If a group is functioning in love, you can handle things efficiently. If not . . . may be a person needs to be elsewhere?
     
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