When does the resurrection of the dead take place?

[YSam44]

Translated----moved from earth to heaven------"Not see death"----

Where are the scriptures for this:

okay... Elijah was taken by a whirlwind from heaven... okay there are 3 different heavens in the bible... on is where the birds fly... the other is the universe... the other is where Gods throne is... this being said... you know the story... Elijah was translated through heaven by a whirlwind and not found... right? RIGHT.. Does this mean he did not die and he was in heaven at Gods throne? God says that all men must die... we have went over that in several post...

Any way the story of Elijah is in 2 Kings 2 - by the way the word "heaven" here is hebrew for sky around us... but lets skip that... cause something way more interesting is about to happen... Remember Elisha permitted these men to go look for Elijah... This is our first clue... Elisha knew God removed Elijah so he could assume the role of the prophet... in other words he took that office... just like when we replace a president... okay that is beside the point...

Immediately before Elijah disappeared into the distance a new king had come to the throne in Israel (compare II Kings 1:17 with II Kings 3:1). The new king's name was Jehoram, or Joram, as this name is sometimes spelled. He was another son of Ahab. The first year of Jehoram's sole reign, which was the sixth year of his joint reign—first with his father Ahab, then his brother Ahaziah—was 849-848 BC. During Jehoram's reign Elisha was the recognized prophet of God (II Kings 3:11).

Meanwhile, in Judah, the son of Jehoshaphat began to reign as co-regent along with his father (II Kings 8:16). This king, who began to reign in the fifth year of the joint reign of Jehoram, king of Israel, was also named Jehoram (or Joram). This Jehoram was associated with his father Jehoshaphat on the throne for nearly six years. Elisha died (2 Kings 13)

Jehoshaphat died in the year 845 BC. This was full four years since Elijah had disappeared (remember, he had disappeared almost immediately after Jehoram of Israel began his sole reign in 849). When Jehoshaphat was dead, his son Jehoram, now sole king of Judah, slew his brothers and some of the princes to further secure the throne (II Chronicles 21:1-4).

The year after the death of Jehoshaphat, Edom revolted from Judah's king Jehoram (II Kings 8:20-24 and II Chronicles 21:8-10). After that brief war, Jehoram of Judah set about to build high places and introduce pagan customs (II Chronicles. 21:11). He followed the ways of the nations about him and did evil in God's sight.

A full ten years had now expired since Elijah was taken from the people. But what do you think was about to happen?

God chose Elijah to write a letter and have it sent to the king!

The contents of the letter are found in II Chronicles 21:12-15. In part it reads: "Because thou hast not walked in the ways of . . . thy father . . . but hast walkedin the way of the kings of Israel . . . and also hast slainthy brethren of thy father's house, which were better that thyself . . .thou shalt havegreat sickness by disease."

From the wording of the letter, it is clear that Elijah wrote it after these events had occurred, for he speaks of them as past events, and of the disease as future. Two years after the king became diseased, the king died (843 BC)—having reigned only eight short years (II Chronicles 21:18-20).

This proves that the letter was written in the fifth year after Elijah had been taken to another location by the whirlwind

God used Elijah to convey the message because he was the prophet of God in the days of the present king's father—and the son was not going in the ways of his obedient father, Jehosaphat.

So there you have it... Elijah was used by God to send a letter to the present king of Israel

 

[ewq1938]

Yes 2, i said that, you can find the other...

There is no other resurrection mentioned after the return of Christ aside from those two groups.

 

[ewq1938]

They do participate in the resurrection from physical life to immortal life...

No, the only people who are resurrected are the dead. The living do not resurrect.

in order to do that they will momentarily die!

Paul says otherwise so I will accept what he taught and reject your teaching.

and those that are alive will die even just for a second but given a new body as well...it will be almost instant

This is not found in scripture.

 

[YSam44]

Just a note on those who wish to get lost in the word "translated"...

Read Colosians 1.13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Here Paul is writing to the church and we can see that the church was still physically in the world... God just translated, moved, transferred those whom He called under the umbrella of the Kingdom...

 

[YSam44]

No, the only people who are resurrected are the dead. The living do not resurrect.




Paul says otherwise so I will accept what he taught and reject your teaching.





This is not found in scripture.[/QUOTE

Not my teaching, but Okay.....

 

[YSam44]

Not my teaching but Okay.....

 

[YSam44]

There is no other resurrection mentioned after the return of Christ aside from those two groups.

Yeah... there are plainly 3 different resurrections.... it is no secret

 

[ewq1938]

Not my teaching, but Okay.....

It is your teaching. Paul says the ones alive and remaining won't die but be changed. You insert that they will die very briefly. That is called Eisegesis.

Eisegesis is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text so the meaning of the text changes from what it originally was into something the Eisegete (an individual who practices eisegesis) wishes it to be.

 

[ewq1938]

Yeah... there are plainly 3 different resurrections.... it is no secret

Then show the third one.

 

[ewq1938]

You also dodged the Lazarus issue. Did he die once or twice?

 

[mmksparbud]

okay... Elijah was taken by a whirlwind from heaven... okay there are 3 different heavens in the bible... on is where the birds fly... the other is the universe... the other is where Gods throne is... this being said... you know the story... Elijah was translated through heaven by a whirlwind and not found... right? RIGHT.. Does this mean he did not die and he was in heaven at Gods throne? God says that all men must die... we have went over that in several post...

Any way the story of Elijah is in 2 Kings 2 - by the way the word "heaven" here is hebrew for sky around us... but lets skip that... cause something way more interesting is about to happen... Remember Elisha permitted these men to go look for Elijah... This is our first clue... Elisha knew God removed Elijah so he could assume the role of the prophet... in other words he took that office... just like when we replace a president... okay that is beside the point...

Immediately before Elijah disappeared into the distance a new king had come to the throne in Israel (compare II Kings 1:17 with II Kings 3:1). The new king's name was Jehoram, or Joram, as this name is sometimes spelled. He was another son of Ahab. The first year of Jehoram's sole reign, which was the sixth year of his joint reign—first with his father Ahab, then his brother Ahaziah—was 849-848 BC. During Jehoram's reign Elisha was the recognized prophet of God (II Kings 3:11).

Meanwhile, in Judah, the son of Jehoshaphat began to reign as co-regent along with his father (II Kings 8:16). This king, who began to reign in the fifth year of the joint reign of Jehoram, king of Israel, was also named Jehoram (or Joram). This Jehoram was associated with his father Jehoshaphat on the throne for nearly six years. Elisha died (2 Kings 13)

Jehoshaphat died in the year 845 BC. This was full four years since Elijah had disappeared (remember, he had disappeared almost immediately after Jehoram of Israel began his sole reign in 849). When Jehoshaphat was dead, his son Jehoram, now sole king of Judah, slew his brothers and some of the princes to further secure the throne (II Chronicles 21:1-4).

The year after the death of Jehoshaphat, Edom revolted from Judah's king Jehoram (II Kings 8:20-24 and II Chronicles 21:8-10). After that brief war, Jehoram of Judah set about to build high places and introduce pagan customs (II Chronicles. 21:11). He followed the ways of the nations about him and did evil in God's sight.

A full ten years had now expired since Elijah was taken from the people. But what do you think was about to happen?

God chose Elijah to write a letter and have it sent to the king!

The contents of the letter are found in II Chronicles 21:12-15. In part it reads: "Because thou hast not walked in the ways of . . . thy father . . . but hast walkedin the way of the kings of Israel . . . and also hast slainthy brethren of thy father's house, which were better that thyself . . .thou shalt havegreat sickness by disease."

From the wording of the letter, it is clear that Elijah wrote it after these events had occurred, for he speaks of them as past events, and of the disease as future. Two years after the king became diseased, the king died (843 BC)—having reigned only eight short years (II Chronicles 21:18-20).

This proves that the letter was written in the fifth year after Elijah had been taken to another location by the whirlwind

God used Elijah to convey the message because he was the prophet of God in the days of the present king's father—and the son was not going in the ways of his obedient father, Jehosaphat.

So there you have it... Elijah was used by God to send a letter to the present king of Israel

Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Translate:

#3346 G3326 and G5087; TDNT - 8:161,1176; v

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
1a) to transfer
1b) to change
1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred
1c1) to go or pass over
1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

• #3346a.
• μετατι´θημι
• metatithēmi; from 3326 and 5087; to transfer, change:—
• NASB - changed(1), deserting*(1), removed(1), taken(1), took(1), turn(1).

• #3346b.
• μετατρε´πω
• metatrepō; from 3326 and τρε´πω trepō (to turn); to turn about:—
• NASB - turned(1).

Death:

#2288 θάνατος thanatos {than'-at-os} from G2348; TDNT - 3:7,312; n m
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the death of the body
1a) that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and
the body by which the life on earth is ended



Would you prefer a different translation?
American Standard Version (ASV 1901)

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well-pleasing unto God:

John Etheridge Peshitta-Aramaic NT (1849)

Through faith Hanak was translated, and did not taste death; nor was he found, because Aloha had translated him: for before that he would translate him, there was respecting him the testimony that he pleased Aloha.

James Murdock Peshitta-Aramaic NT (1852)

By faith, Enoch was translated, and did not taste death; and he was not found, because God had translated him: for, before he translated him, there was testimony of him, that he pleased God.

New International Version
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

English Standard Version
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith Enoch was taken from the earth so that he did not see death, and he could not be found, because God had taken him; for before he was taken we have evidence that he truly pleased God.

There are many more versions

 

[ewq1938]

Yeah this is clearly related to when the living are changed into immortals at the second coming. Enoch was also "changed" physically thus avoiding death. I believe Elijah also was changed in this sense.

Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Translate:

#3346 G3326 and G5087; TDNT - 8:161,1176; v

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
1a) to transfer
1b) to change
1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred
1c1) to go or pass over
1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

• #3346a.
• μετατι´θημι
• metatithēmi; from 3326 and 5087; to transfer, change:—
• NASB - changed(1), deserting*(1), removed(1), taken(1), took(1), turn(1).

• #3346b.
• μετατρε´πω
• metatrepō; from 3326 and τρε´πω trepō (to turn); to turn about:—
• NASB - turned(1).

Death:

#2288 θάνατος thanatos {than'-at-os} from G2348; TDNT - 3:7,312; n m
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the death of the body
1a) that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and
the body by which the life on earth is ended



Would you prefer a different translation?
American Standard Version (ASV 1901)

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well-pleasing unto God:

John Etheridge Peshitta-Aramaic NT (1849)

Through faith Hanak was translated, and did not taste death; nor was he found, because Aloha had translated him: for before that he would translate him, there was respecting him the testimony that he pleased Aloha.

James Murdock Peshitta-Aramaic NT (1852)

By faith, Enoch was translated, and did not taste death; and he was not found, because God had translated him: for, before he translated him, there was testimony of him, that he pleased God.

New International Version
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

English Standard Version
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith Enoch was taken from the earth so that he did not see death, and he could not be found, because God had taken him; for before he was taken we have evidence that he truly pleased God.

There are many more versions

 

[mmksparbud]

Yeah this is clearly related to when the living are changed into immortals at the second coming. Enoch was also "changed" physically thus avoiding death. I believe Elijah also was changed in this sense.

 

[YSam44]

There is no other resurrection mentioned after the return of Christ aside from those two groups.

Okay... so you saw those two... the bible plainly speaks of 3 resurrections throughout the old and new testaments...the last resurrection will plainly result in the lake of fire mentioned in Rev 21 that death is termed the second death and it is final...

 

[ewq1938]

Okay... so you saw those two... the bible plainly speaks of 3 resurrections throughout the old and new testaments...

lol, there are more than 3 in the whole bible but only two after the return of Christ.

 

[YSam44]

Yeah this is clearly related to when the living are changed into immortals at the second coming. Enoch was also "changed" physically thus avoiding death. I believe Elijah also was changed in this sense.

Christ is the firstborn (resurrected) among many brethren (notice "first") He, Christ also has pre-eminance
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. So no!!!! Abraham, Sarah, David, Enoch, Elijah, and all the others could not have received eternal life before Christ... See last part of my post


Again my friend, Enoch did not see death in the event that Hebrews 11 is talking about... If you notice that Hebrews 11 is speaking of faith (it is called the faith chapter)...and it tells of each persons significant event

By faith abel offered up a better sacrifice
By faith enoch was translated (removed) so that he should not see death
By faith noah moved with fear
By faith abraham went out and obeyed
Through faith sarah concieved a child
By faith Issac blessed Jacob and Esua
By faith Jacob blessed the sons of Joseph
By faith Joseph mention his bones
By faith Moses refused to be called son of pharoah

By faith
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And what does it say of all these:

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[YSam44]

lol, there are more than 3 in the whole bible but only two after the return of Christ.

two after the return of Christ...that is 2 + 1 = 3 ....okay, I see you found all three now... LOL

 

[YSam44]

Yeah this is clearly related to when the living are changed into immortals at the second coming. Enoch was also "changed" physically thus avoiding death. I believe Elijah also was changed in this sense.

I addressed this very clearly in my post...both on Elijah and Enoch...

 

[YSam44]

It is your teaching. Paul says the ones alive and remaining won't die but be changed. You insert that they will die very briefly. That is called Eisegesis.

No Paul says they cannot change or quicken until they die... v 36 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

As in Adam all die 1 Cor 15.22

So its not Eisegesis ----- its just plain ol comprehension of grammer

 

[YSam44]

Enoch nor Elijah were made immortal at this time